POS question
- Thread starter framer1
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pwalters
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Framer - I'm not sure I understand. Can you elaborate?
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Are you home based or a retail shop?
Life Saver has/had a deal/program with LJ and my distributor DonMar. The cost was free with a yearly subscription. You may have to pay the yearly subscription up front now but I vaguely recall the first year was free...
So ask your main distributor if that program still exists or if they are involved in it. If you ar an LJ only shop then your rep should have told you about it....
No monthly subscription but a yearly one....
Life Saver has/had a deal/program with LJ and my distributor DonMar. The cost was free with a yearly subscription. You may have to pay the yearly subscription up front now but I vaguely recall the first year was free...
So ask your main distributor if that program still exists or if they are involved in it. If you ar an LJ only shop then your rep should have told you about it....
No monthly subscription but a yearly one....
blackiris
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Lifesaver does a monthly one.
Kyle Henson
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
ezframer has a montlhy. ezframer.com
cjmst3k
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Bob,
I just called Lifesaver (as Wizard's POS is now leaving) and they said they had not offered the above for 1.5 years. They said it was $895 for the first year, and $395 for the years afterward.
A bit rich for my blood, so I'll be contacting their competition to see what the options are.
They said "We do offer promotions during trade-shows, etc" and I recommended that they consider making a promotion now that Wiz is dropping this service. They would capture some of their former customers.
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Maybe if they know you are going elsewhere because of the price policy they could be persuaded to change their mind. Someone else in this thread mentioned that they had a monthly price structure. I would be curious if they still offered that and if they did if you had to cough up $900 up front.
If not then ask them why you, getting the yearly renewal plan, and thus making a longer, more stable commitment to them, would have to.
If not then ask them why you, getting the yearly renewal plan, and thus making a longer, more stable commitment to them, would have to.
cjmst3k
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I told them specifically that I would look at the other companies, since their price was higher.
When I called and spoke with John, I said that I currently use Wizard's POS, and that they are now discontinuing it, and we are researching the options (LifeSaver, FrameReady, SpecialtySoft, etc).
He said the price is $895 for the first year and $395 for the following years. I mentioned that promotion that you were talking about and they said something to the effect of "I don't think we can do that". I said "Do you need to check with someone?" and he said he won't do that pricing. I asked if I wait if their price might go down, and he said promotions may occur during trade shows... I suggested that because of the shake-up, they might consider running a special promotion to grab some of the newly-searching frame shops.
Seems silly that they would rather sell it to me in 2013, MAYBE, and miss out on 6 months of payments, let alone if I don't decide in the next 6 months to choose a different POS company.
...certainly left the impression that they could either take-or-leave my business.
My Larson rep suggested I call back and tell them I'm an LJ customer. Not sure that would help.
Oh well. That's one way to make certain that I'll more strongly look at the competition.
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Sounds like that would be a good option for you. And for LS as there is nothing worse for a business than a disgruntled customer. Unless it is a disgruntled customer that is active on an internet forum 
cjmst3k
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Sounds like that would be a good option for you. And for LS as there is nothing worse for a business than a disgruntled customer. Unless it is a disgruntled customer that is active on an internet forum
Actually, worse is a disgruntled customer who hasn't bought anything.
I can't say I'm disgruntled... but c'mon. You have a chance to lure me away from four other competitors, I'm an active buyer, but you'll only grace me a sale if I pay the highest amount possible, or if I wait until January? (which I don't fly to vegas, so basically they would only sell the higher price to me)
I've already invested in a POS with an initial buy-in, and it's working fine, so I'm not planning on doing another buy-in. Just thought I would switch earlier than is necessary, but I can wait until the Wizard RM becomes out of date.
If I don't choose their product (which went from almost certain, to somewhat unlikely now) I'm sure they have enough customers already. That's what I'm taking away from this experience.
My take is that they (all vendors) probably need time to become aware of the situation, analyze conversion options, and come up with some kind of competitive upgrade promo. I know you are anxious, but your call was probably the first they heard of it.
Full version costs of popular programs: (Alphabetically) from: http://www.getthepictureframing.com/gfaq/software.htm
EZ Framer: $999 (+$300/yr vendors & sw)
Ferensoft: $1295 (+$395/yr vendors + $300/yr sw)
FrameReady: $1400 (+$250/yr vendors + $88/yr sw)
Fullcalc: $1595 (+500/yr vendors & sw)
LifeSaver: $895 (+$395/yr vendors & sw)
Specialtysoft: $1495 (+$395/yr vendors & sw)
Spinnsoft: $2290 (+$350/yr vendors & sw)
Note: Some of the above have "lite" (feature reduced) versions, as well as corporate and multi store versions (higher price) The above are full versions only, to compare apples to apples. Some of the above also have a monthly lease program, rather than initial investment. Some also offer competitive upgrade programs.
They're ALL very affordable, IMO. In any other industry, something like this would probably be 10-15k, and a lot more than 395 yearly. There is a lot of competition, which benefits US (the customers).
Patience, my friend.
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Chris do you need anything other than pricing updates for your existing software. Vendors can e-mail their pricing update files.
cjmst3k
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Good point, Jeff. I think for the forseeable future, pricing updates are my only concern. So, I suppose I can just use my current POS indefinitely.... or until I am compelled to buy a competitor's program.
Jeff Rodier
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
I would call your main vendor and see if the update format is one that is used by other software companies and if so you should be good as gold.
I just had a nice conversation with Paul Thomas at LSS. I think if you call back now, you'll be pleased that they have a special promotion in place for those wishing to switch from the discontinued product.
They're offering a $200 courtesy discount, through the end of August, which is equivalent to 6 months of free price updates/software updates/tech support. The offer is available in one of two ways: a) The price can reduced to $695 (from $895), or b) If you pay the $895, they will increase the renewal date 18 months out from activation.
Best regards,
Mike
Every vendor seems to have their own way of submitting the updates, and the formats vary greatly. Some still use spreadsheets, for example. There are price changes daily, if you carry a lot of vendors. (lot of work!)
Mike
Actually, it may seem that way just because LifeSaver is so open to accept whatever is sent to them. Every other POS company we deal with is nowhere near as flexible. Some go as far as not only a requirement for file type (CSV, Tab separated, XLS, etc) but exactly what fields there must be (whether valid/in use for the type of product), and the order of them.
LifeSaver just says "send us whatever you have ready for someone else".
Ah yes, indeed. My statement was based on a conversation I had with the LS techs (years ago), when they told me how they developed a set of tools for each vendor's preferred format. Much time is spent daily to process the received updates, and distribute them to customers in a common format.
A small amount of suppliers barely have/use computers, and even a spreadsheet is asking a lot. I talked with one or two at trade shows that have a typewritten list that only gets updated once yearly. To be as inclusive as possible, LS will accept/use anything they can get. I suspect the other POS vendors do the same.
There was talk in 2006 or so about setting a common format/standard for the submissions, but it had some resistance - and nothing ever came of it.
Mike
A small amount of suppliers barely have/use computers, and even a spreadsheet is asking a lot. I talked with one or two at trade shows that have a typewritten list that only gets updated once yearly.
To be as inclusive as possible, LS will accept/use anything they can get. I suspect the other POS vendors do the same.There was talk in 2006 or so about setting a common format/standard for the submissions, but it had some resistance - and nothing ever came of it.
Mike
cjmst3k
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I just had a nice conversation with Paul Thomas at LSS. I think if you call back now, you'll be pleased that they have a special promotion in place for those wishing to switch from the discontinued product.
a) The price can reduced to $695 (from $895), or b) If you pay the $895, they will increase the renewal date 18 months out from activation.
Best regards,
Mike
Mike, thank you for brokering a $200 discount with LSS. With the below info from BackwoodsFramer, I may wait until they (maybe) have a better deal around the WCAF trade show. Continuing with RM is a much less expensive option than spending $700 at the moment, and if switching around WCAF has been a $500 savings in the past, then perhaps it would be worth waiting until then, and by then I may be used to the idea of just keeping RM. I've had a few POS companies contacting me, though my employee has extensive experience with LSS.
The thing I don't understand is if they are still selling and supporting Wizard RM, then why did they remove it from their list of products they sell?
Now that they have the software to the level they want it.
I Wonder if Wizard is going to do a promotion at WCA. Like LSS did originally when they met market resistance. They gave the software away. Maybe Wizard should do that for all Wizard owner/renters. Then they would get a yearly support after that. Or just bundle it with the Wizard.
I Wonder if Wizard is going to do a promotion at WCA. Like LSS did originally when they met market resistance. They gave the software away. Maybe Wizard should do that for all Wizard owner/renters. Then they would get a yearly support after that. Or just bundle it with the Wizard.
cjmst3k
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I can't see them doing that now. They removed Retail Management from their website's list of products. That should be more than a hint of what they see the future of it. They also said they're not killing it, but they're not feeding it either. Once that cat is out of the bag on their intent, I can't see a reason anyone would change from more certainty with one product to less certainty with another. Though your idea would have been a great way to get the product out there with a higher than 5%-6% share*.
(*per the last Grumble survey)
"While Wizard remains a healthy company, I have made a tough but necessary decision to focus on the continued support and sales of our CMC and Integrated Framer Visualization products. Future development of Retail Management and Production Management products have been discontinued. Along with this change to our product line, I have reorganized and downsized our workforce in order to sustain our company health now, and in the future."
Bob Doyle
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Framer1, I hope we have been helpful
If not then do take a look at the list that is linked to in Mike's post, the post where he listed the yearly prices of the most used programs. His list has much more info and is a great resource. The initial cost of the programs may seem high, but seriously they do pay for themselves as the computer is much less likely to "leave money on the counter" than any handwritten invoice ever could.
If not then do take a look at the list that is linked to in Mike's post, the post where he listed the yearly prices of the most used programs. His list has much more info and is a great resource. The initial cost of the programs may seem high, but seriously they do pay for themselves as the computer is much less likely to "leave money on the counter" than any handwritten invoice ever could.
BackwoodsFramers
True Grumbler
Wizard Support
Wizard may be just giving lip service to the "support" of RM. I am having problems with it, and when I called for assist, Ryan, who always fixes the program quickly, "no longer works" for them. The person I talked with said she would "research the problem and get back to me" That was Thursday morning. The program still isn't working. I wouldn't call that "support" I'm hoping I can make it last until January, but have my doubts.
I was with Lifesaver before RM came out. Do you think they would take that into consideration with the up front costs?
Time to check around. Meanwhile, my program is only half functional..
Luann
Wizard may be just giving lip service to the "support" of RM. I am having problems with it, and when I called for assist, Ryan, who always fixes the program quickly, "no longer works" for them. The person I talked with said she would "research the problem and get back to me" That was Thursday morning. The program still isn't working. I wouldn't call that "support" I'm hoping I can make it last until January, but have my doubts.
I was with Lifesaver before RM came out. Do you think they would take that into consideration with the up front costs?
Time to check around. Meanwhile, my program is only half functional..
Luann
cjmst3k
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Wizard may be just giving lip service to the "support" of RM. I am having problems with it, and when I called for assist, Ryan, who always fixes the program quickly, "no longer works" for them. The person I talked with said she would "research the problem and get back to me" That was Thursday morning. The program still isn't working. I wouldn't call that "support" I'm hoping I can make it last until January, but have my doubts.
I was with Lifesaver before RM came out. Do you think they would take that into consideration with the up front costs?
Time to check around. Meanwhile, my program is only half functional..
Luann
Call LS. They have a special until end of August for Wizard POS customers. $200 off.