polystyrene question

Al E

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jan 21, 2001
Posts
446
Loc
Starrucca,PA,USA
I have some polystyrene moulding. I have never used it. Can I use a mini-biscuit jointer on the miter? Will it crumble or behave as wood?
 
the whole idea of polystyrene moulding is "CHEAP"
(beat you to it Cornell)

Why spend 20 minutes bisketing a $3/ft frame. Slap super glue on the joint and hold for 40 seconds.

NOTE: NO POLYSTYRENE WILL BEHAVE LIKE WOOD.
 
I have had good luck with PVA glue.
More than luck, really, it has held up nicely and is much more user-friendly. Think Elmer's white or Sobo glue.
I have used a pneumatic nailer, but v-nails worked best.

Here is a previous general assesment of plastic frames that I wrote:

We used to use a lot of this stuff when we made samples for the readymade frame division of a big gift company. We had the material here specifically for them and did not sell it to the general public yet.

We cut them without any problems on the chopper and glued them with Sobo glue- seems to me that Mighty Muck or any other PVA glue would work as well. I have some samples still here (that I kept for myself) at least 8 years old and they're still solid. We also used it as a frame around our outside hanging sign and the miters are just fine even after at least 5 Ohio freeze/thaw/freeze winters. The finish is a little battered, though.

One problem I have with the stuff is that it flexes without something rigid (like glass) to keep in on a level plane. So it would not be appropriate for pieces glazed in plexiglas. I don't think it is as strong as wood, either. So for larger pieces, a chunkier profile would be in order.

I have not yet been impressed with the quality of the finishes yet. Some fine-tuning is in order.

Also, the stuff fails as being considered "environmentally friendly." It is NOT RECYCLABLE and this is important to know. When this stuff burns, it emits very toxic fumes. This could make a world of difference in a house fire.

edie the whateverworks goddess

[ 10-04-2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Framing Goddess ]
 
Baer is like a friend of mine whose adage is: "if it ain't wood, it ain't good!"

I agree in some respects, but think - light weight, no warping, and no knots...

Big money maker.

Betty
 
They cheap, they look good (perceived value) and they sell real well.

We integrate them on the wall along with all the other mouldings. And we price them comparable with the ones that they look like.* (I know - poor English, but hey...) Sometimes, I catch myself being surprised when I pull one that just looks perfect for the job at hand, and lo, and behold, it is not wood...

*This allows me to say things like, "since you're getting the (whatever - AR glass, or the museum glass, or double bevel mat, or you have multiples...) I think I can make you a deal on this moulding." They're pleased, I know I've made what I need to, and everybody is happy!

Betty
 
Jerry, when you're buying in box and the price is 43 cents a foot, your multiplier can sometimes go as high at 10x and still be looking cheap.

[there are a few 43 cent/ft that looks like someone elses 6.34/ft 8.92/chop......

BUT IT'S PLASTIC.
 
Originally posted by Baer Charlton:

BUT IT'S PLASTIC.
Yeah, and so's most everything in your house, on your car, and in your body (if you've gotten any spare parts lately ;) )

Saying "plastic" is like saying "made in Japan". It doesn't mean what it once did.

And besides, you can always say "It's saving the forests... :D "

Betty
 
As I sit here typing on my plastic keyboard and, (wait, I made a typo, gotta move the cursor over with my trusty plastic mouse!), stare at the plastic enclosed monitor screen, (still made out of glass) and scratch my head with one Bandaid wrapped index finger (also plastic ........ the bandaid, not the finger), I wonder what we would do without PLASTIC???

I looked around me and thought of how much would be left in my shop to work with if I removed everything that had plastic on/in/around/under it?? Man, that stuff is here to stay!!

I haven't taken the "extruded product" plunge in my shop yet but I probably will in the near future. I guess that old habits and beliefs die hard. I have been a worker of wood products most of my life and I can understand to a degree Baer's feelings about switching to a plastic product that has been made traditionally of wood. But, I also thought it was a travesty when they went from real wood veneer on much of the furniture we have at our disposal to plastic look-alike veneer.

When I complete my mourning period for the disappearance of quality wood products, I will probably get along fine with the newer "non-wood" stuff. Some of it really does look good.

Framerguy
 
There are some really cool hybrid mouldings that combine wood fiber with polystyrene. Greater strength than polystyrene alone (one of my main concerns about it) and a much more homogenous core (for a better gluing surface).

I also love working with wood, but I realize that the economics of it are limiting. The cost is going up as the supplies dwindle, and poorer quality is rampant.

There will probably be a good deal of plastic in the kitchen cabinets I build, though the doors will have a wooden frame.
 
I tried PVA as the Goddess suggested because it is "more forgiving" but it didn't work. It just stayed wet and the mitre didn't absorb it.

I then used the super glue and it worked perfectly.

The customer wanted a wide moulding for a very inexpensive oil. When the optimum design was triple her budget I showed her some polystyrene in a catalog as I don't have any corners of it. She liked it and it was within her budget. Better that than her walking.
 
Well, it has been a few years since I used any... but I can imagine that the plastic used may vary from manufacturer to manufacturer. Maybe the PVA glue works on some and not others?

In any case, I am glad you got your sale and the customer is happy. That's why we're here, eh?

edie the
shrug.gif
goddess
 
I've never used it either. Decor has some nice polystyrenes. I wonder how the saw blades effect the plastic. Maybe that's why the PVA wasn't absorbed when Al tried it.
 
Hey Flintstone- I checked with Decor about getting their polystyrene for an upcoming contract job, my first foray into "plastic", and they recommend using special blades. I contacted Quality Saw and was told to use "Hollow Ground" blades that will be dedicated to only cutting plastic mouldings. Skip told me using them on wood would dull them immediately...Mark
 
I used the polystyrene frames at my last place of employment. I have no idea about joining them because we got our "wood" frames joined. The were however popular, because they gave alot of profile for the money. The shop was in a very economicly mixed area. They provided alot of flash for the cash. So the less affluent could get an impressive frame.
I agree, I love a beautiful wood or a gorgeous leafed frame. But I work with this stuff every day. And I can enjoy the nuances of nicer frames. Just as a mechanic may appreciate a large engine in a vehicle, it may not be worth it to me if all I need is to drive to the corner store. I am sure there may be less vibration or less drag with a better engine, but I am not going to pay for these qualities I don't appreciate.

There are people who think a dinner at Denny's is fine dining, and they deserve their Velvet Elvis to be framed to the best their money can buy. I am happy to make those people happy too. That is my favorite part of this work. I have long ago learned not to be a snob.

My only concerns with polystyrene is longevity and reliability. If you are not confident of a product don't sell it!
 
I agree with FrameSpaceCadet

We have been distributing poly moulding for over four years. During this period, sales have increased dramiticly every year. I believe more and more frame shops and galleries have realized that their competition is not only other frame shops and galleries, but also includes Home Depot, Walmart, etc... The increase of pre-framed suppliers has also dropped prices in the framing industry. Polystyrene moulding allows you to keep the price conscious (or cheap) customers from walking out your door and going to the big box retailers. I'm not saying you should take away a large portion of wall space from your wood samples, however, by keeping a small selection you still can give your customers the option.

Polystyrene moulding has changed dramaticly over the past few years with improvements in realistic foils, scratch resistant surfaces, and textures applied to surfaces. Like any new technology, improvements are constantly being made. Look at the MDF industry. For years wrapped MDF moulding was usually of a very low quality. Look what Framerica has been able to do with their Bonanza Wood Lines. Some of their finishes are very impressive. So impressive that Larson Juhl carries their line.

Instead of replacing your wood line with poly, try to offer poly instead of metal. With poly you are still able to give your customer a nice profile, instead of your standard metal frames. In the next 5 years there is supposed to be huge increases in the metal industry. Why wait to switch to poly when you can start now? And I bet you any money framers where very reluctant when metal moulding first entered the market.

In regards to joining polystyrene moulding, Weld-On 16 by IPS works great. Any acrylic supplier should have this or something simular in stock. The reason you cannot get it on the surface of the moulding is that it actually melts the poly together.

Thats just my thoughts for today.

Daniel Cochrane
Sales / Marketing Manager
 
Originally posted by danvestate:
Look what Framerica has been able to do with their Bonanza Wood Lines. Some of their finishes are very impressive. So impressive that Larson Juhl carries their line.
Lets not kid ourselves here. Larson Juhl has been the largest reseller of Framerica for years now. They enjoy the greatest discount for this and Framerica offers Larson Juhl moldings in their "Retail/Wholesale" store, County Frame, that competes directly with Framerica's local customers. Oh, and by the way, Framerica gets the best discounts from Larson Juhl. Yes the finishes are nice, but that's not why Larson Juhl carries it...Mark
 
Mark

I was unaware of "Country Frame", as I am located in Canada. How many County Frame stores are there in the US?

Daniel
 
Just the one, but it's one of the largest frame shops in terms of volume. They compete directly not only for retail and wholesale jobs, but they also go after the large contract jobs. Is'nt it great when a supplier become a competitor too! They aren't the only ones either. Decor moulding has AFS (Art Frame Services) and Omega has Reflective Creations, both use these companies to compete directly with their customers...Mark
 
Polystyrene has changed dramatically. Check pages 40-45 in our catalog (www.tcmoulding.com) profiles 29995 - 305814. We import these mouldings from South Africa (Artistic / Supreme / Enviroline) a former Larson-Juhl company.

They are twice as dense as most available polystyrenes on the market and use the same finishes, foils and compos as wood moulding.

They have their place in the market.

We recommend using either 3M's CA-50 Gel (less running) or Loctite 451. Everyone's right, do not get it on the finish. Use different saw blades (Ultramitre) makes a great one.

I think Larson-Juhl offers Framerica because even Larson needs a price competitive product. Great finishes or not.
 
In the east coast both framerica and decor are two of the largest players. Are there companies that are equivalent in size to decor and framerica on the west coast besides omega and studio. Does anyone know if omega and studio also have sister companies that compete against their own customers.
 
I've cut a lot of polystyrene with my regular wood cutting blade and have no noticable problems switching to wood. I sharpen my blades often with a file and they cut great.

The key to cutting the plastics for me is a quick chop, it goes through like butter and leaves almost no plactic residue, if any let cool a few seconds and simpluy brush or wipe off.

Cutting slow will melt the edges causes the plast to accumulate in small glogs along the edges, again let cool a few moments and remove with a sanding board if they will not just flick off.......
 
Back
Top