POLL:What sells for you? High end, bread & butter, economy? 9/07 Survey & Discussion

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Mike Labbe

Mike Labbe

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High End? - Bread & Butter? - Low End?
A survey that compares the types of framing you may sell in a typical month
By # of units sold - By dollar value
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C L I C K - H E R E - T O - P A R T I C I P A T E​

NOTE: NEW SURVEY SOFTWARE - Please report any problems.​

Inspired by Bob Carter. Discussion is heartily welcomed
RESULTS from previous TFG surveys: LINK TO RESULTS​

This survey is intended for framers, and is purely for entertainment and discussion. Your poll selections are anonymous, although discussion is public and encouraged. Results represent a small sample of the industry, and should NOT be used as a primary planning tool or business plan. ​
 
wHATS HIGH END?

Lets take a 11 x 14 print to be framed

I would assume that for that size the complete framing bill
high end=$350 & up
bread & butter=$150 - $350
economy would be anything less

Would you agree?

I'll wait for some responses so I can answer with any relevance!
 
I just noticed that the poll was inspired by Bob Carter - I am just going to guess that the poll is vague because he would like to compare what peples perception of high end is compared to reality - just a thought!
 
Hey HB-I am curious what people really do sell. May I suggest that, if tracked, we probably sell more middle and low than we think

But, this poll is what we "think" we sell; not necessarily what we actually do sell. If there is a lesson it might be to better understand what we relly do sell

And, i think dollars are not a very accurate way to determine segments

Using a dollar scale in that time honored tradition of finding the exception to create the rule, we frame those big wall posters (38x54) for around $229 (definitly low end framing) and a 5x7 with a wrapped mat and Museum glass for $100 (probbly high end)

This ought to be like pornography; you know it when you see it no matter how hard you argue that it's art

In your example, would $349 be middle and $350 high?

If it looks high end, call it high
 
High End; Low End - My response to HB

In my opinion the dollar amount for these categories will be different from frame shop to frame shop depending on many factors. I voted in accordance to what is high end for me - may or may not be high end for you, etc. For some frame shops, especially in the cities, an 11x14 for under $200 or $300 might be considered low end - in my small, rural, low-economy area, that would be considered closer to high end.
 
Bob,

I think your point that this is about what we think we sell is important. I asked that dollars be included as a secondary response because it represents an analysis of how important "value" segments are to gross sales. I am going to have to spend some time thinking about "which is what" to finally respond to the poll -a very worthwhile exercise. I am drawn to judge by material unit costs rather than ticket prices. A big "Studio" frame job is definitely low end. A small closed corner is definitely high end. They could both have the same "ticket".

I am interested in the poll results. I wonder how many shops are in the same boat that I am in. Over recent years the number of frames that I am selling has steadily dropped. My dollar sales have been steady. The low end market has dropped off significantly, but Fabric mats, Museum Glass, fillets, and moulding such as Munn chops, Roma, and LJ "Ponzio" frames in the $25 - $90 a foot range sales have increased - most would consider this high end. Closed corner frame sales in the $70 - $200 a foot range have also increased. If I just looked at frame numbers the importance of this trend wouldn't be as obvious.

If I were a young man trying to support a family, I wouldn't like what is going on with low end volume. As a retiree from another profession I am enjoying it immensely.

:D:D
 
as a "phase 2" to this survey.... it might be interesting to have another survey to define what these catagories are.

EX: what is low end framing (retail $ per ft of moulding)

< $3.00
< $5.00
< $8.00
< $10.00
< $15.00
< $20.00
< $25.00


what is high end framing (retail $ per ft of moulding)
> $10.00
> $15.00
> $20.00
> $30.00
> $50.00
> $75.00
> $100.00



the middle (non defined) being the bread and butter)
 
Why do we insist upon, typically the same people, using the exception to trump the rule

Is a $10/ft mldg with Mus Glass, handwrapped mat with filet a low end job becuse of the mldg

How about $30/ft mldg with a single mat and reg glass?

Look at it

Does it look like High end to you? Then call it High end

Don't worry, in averages, the odd ducks always cancel themselves out
 
I concidder my shop to be a middle/high end shop. We definitely sell more middle of the road jobs than high end but the dollar value of the high end sales outvalue those of the middle of the road jobs. One good high end sale can easily equate a large percentage of my monthly gross. Those jobs listed in the low end of the survey ($1.50 COG or less) I usualy do as goodwill for my clients and find it to be both financialy and moraly rewarding.
 
Too nebulous.
 
I guess the question really is : In your own mind (without doing any research), are you high medium or low end?

That deters us from researching (or enquiring about) the particulars prior to answering.
 
I think I have sold one truly high end frame this year--a 30 x 42 Concerto frame package at about $3400. Frame alone was about $2400.

The rest is middle to low, many ready made frames and mats, many DIY jobs, many value line frames or price equivalents, ($25-$250) along with what I could call middle end--the fabric jobs, mats with fillets, museum glass, arts and crafts frames, Picture Woods, etc. ($250-$1500, with more in the $200-300 range)

Our bread and butter is both the DIY and ready mades, and the middle of the road "nice" custom framing.

Can't answer the poll--can't figure it out!
 
mid to high end.
 
Hey Kirstie-Saw you Fmo article; much to be proud of

I think we try and make these surveys to complex and I am certainly not blaming Mike

Given my choice, I would have preferred something as simple as:

What percentage of your biz is the following categories

0-15% 16-35% 17-55% 56-75% over 75%

High end

Middle

Low

We want to make everyhing too complex, too convoluted

If there truly will be anything learned from this poll, it might be that we really do not know (and we all know how I feel about guessing) what we really sell and that our opinions are probably way off from what consumers think

I can not believe that any framer can not pick up any piece in their completed stack of workorders and say "This, I would call High, and that, is a low, and these are middle". I cannot remember which Supreme Court judge, when rendering an opinion on obscenity case, said that while he might not be able to define pornography, he knew it when he saw it

There is nothing empirical about this study
 
Kirstie said:
I think I have sold one truly high end frame this year--a 30 x 42 Concerto frame package at about $3400. Frame alone was about $2400.
The rest is middle to low, many ready made frames and mats, many DIY jobs, many value line frames or price equivalents, ($25-$250) along with what I could call middle end--the fabric jobs, mats with fillets, museum glass, arts and crafts frames, Picture Woods, etc. ($250-$1500, with more in the $200-300 range)
Our bread and butter is both the DIY and ready mades, and the middle of the road "nice" custom framing.

Can't answer the poll--can't figure it out!
Click to expand...


I think I answered the first part right, but I just guessed on the second part, because like Kirstie, I really wasn't clear on the question.
 
Bob Carter said:
Hey Kirstie-Saw you Fmo article; much to be proud of
Click to expand...

Thanks Bob, When they called, I figured why not. They were very thorough, and dug up a lot of info on us from old business articles and the like, along with the 20 or so questions. I put it on our site under News and used the link in our newsletter--a bit of credibility for the customers.;)
 
Sorry to be sounding negative about this, but who is to say it right the way it really is? Each of us unknowingly mystifes him/herself daily with respects to so many other things, why would he/she suddenly become objective vis a vis his/her business? This is like asking a lady over the phone what does she look like and how elegant does she dress up when going out on a date; invariably the answer will be "looking (feeling) younger than my real age is" and "elegant to very elegant according to my own and my boyfriend's taste, which is all it counts to me anyway" :)
Unless this is a poll on how people hope others perceive their business (in which case accuracy is not an issue), we must first define terms and report our findings secondly.
For instance, until someone will dispute cjmst3k's opinion on his/her own business' ranking, she/he is not even aware of how far or close from the truth his/her statement really was. So, what makes one's business to be rated low, mid or high end?
 
We're down to the wire. Please participate if you havent

What do you think of the new polling software?

Mike
 
Survey Time Stats
Average Completion Time: 1min 39sec (Min: 0min 37sec, Max: 8min 13sec)
Average Time before Quit: 0min 58sec

WHAT PERCENTAGE RANGE REPRESENTS A TYPICAL MONTH FOR THE FOLLOWING TYPES OF FRAMING?


In this section, We are comparing BY NUMBER OF PIECES/JOBS taken in:

1. BY #: HIGH END (Finished corner, etc)
0% None - 9 14.06%
1%-10% - 27 42.19%
11%-20% - 9 14.06%
21%-30% - 6 9.38%
31%-40% - 3 4.69%
41%-50% - 2 3.12%
51%-60% - 1 1.56%
61%-70% - 2 3.12%
71%-80% - 3 4.69%
81%-90% - 2 3.12%
91%-100% - 0 0.00%
Total Answers - 64

2. BY #: Bread and butter/middle of the road
0% None - 0 0.00%
1%-10% - 1 1.56%
11%-20% - 4 6.25%
21%-30% - 2 3.12%
31%-40% - 4 6.25%
41%-50% - 5 7.81%
51%-60% - 13 20.31%
61%-70% - 14 21.88%
71%-80% - 12 18.75%
81%-90% - 5 7.81%
91%-100% - 4 6.25%
Total Answers - 64

3. BY #: LOW END/LOWEST COST (under $1.50 cost, etc)
0% None - 7 10.94%
1%-10% - 23 35.94%
11%-20% - 20 31.25%
21%-30% - 6 9.38%
31%-40% - 4 6.25%
41%-50% - 2 3.12%
51%-60% - 1 1.56%
61%-70% - 1 1.56%
71%-80% - 0 0.00%
81%-90% - 0 0.00%
91%-100% - 0 0.00%
Total Answers - 64


In this section, We are comparing BY DOLLAR VALUE taken in:

4. BY $: HIGH END (Finished corner, etc)
0% None - 10 15.62%
1%-10% - 17 26.56%
11%-20% - 10 15.62%
21%-30% - 8 12.50%
31%-40% - 4 6.25%
41%-50% - 1 1.56%
51%-60% - 5 7.81%
61%-70% - 2 3.12%
71%-80% - 3 4.69%
81%-90% - 3 4.69%
91%-100% - 1 1.56%
Total Answers - 64

5. BY $: Bread and butter/middle of the road
0% None - 0 0.00%
1%-10% - 4 6.25%
11%-20% - 6 9.38%
21%-30% - 2 3.12%
31%-40% - 3 4.69%
41%-50% - 5 7.81%
51%-60% - 13 20.31%
61%-70% - 8 12.50%
71%-80% - 13 20.31%
81%-90% - 5 7.81%
91%-100% - 5 7.81%
Total Answers - 64

6. BY $: LOW END/LOWEST COST (under $1.50 cost, etc)
0% None - 7 10.94%
1%-10% - 28 43.75%
11%-20% - 17 26.56%
21%-30% - 6 9.38%
31%-40% - 2 3.12%
41%-50% - 2 3.12%
51%-60% - 1 1.56%
61%-70% - 0 0.00%
71%-80% - 0 0.00%
81%-90% - 1 1.56%
91%-100% - 0 0.00%
Total Answers - 64

Note: This was an intentionally light and subjective survey, to test the new software. The results shouldn't be taken too seriously, as a business planning tool.


Thanks for participating in our test survey for the new software.

This new software will be used for future polls, and lets us have multiple questions, and even questions that customize based on previous answers.

Mike
Moderator
 
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