Question Please splain to me...

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Mrs.B

Mrs.B

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jan 9, 2006
Posts
225
Loc
Huntington, Indiana
I have halogen track lights in my gallery. With 35 fixtures on everyday it seems like I'm burning through 2 bulbs every week. I was buying an off brand at about $3.96 each at Mennards.
I want to buy in bulk on line. USA light has name brand @ $2.77 if I buy a case.
Should I buy EXZ, EXN or FNV. I want a flood, not spot.
Thanks, just call me Dim Watt.
 
My understanding is that the less expensive bulbs real cost isn't in the purchase, but in the inefficienies of a short, hot lifespan. I pay quite a bit more for the bulbs ($5.35/bulb including tax) I use (Panasonic I think, but their parent company prior to that). The bulbs are rated for a higher voltage (130V) so they lose a little wattage in the translation, but they use less energy, generate less heat and last about 4X longer than bulbs off the shelf from Home Shelter stores. I have half the number of lights you have and buy an 18 pack of replacements about every 2 1/2 years (average, but the life expectancy of the bulbs keeps going up and I haven't had to restock since 07).
 
All of us need to stock up on bulbs. We want be able to buy them after this year.


I buy the Sylvania 130 volt PAR30 bulbs from USA Light

They work great and last longer than the 120 volt. The reason is, you are running them below their rating and not right on the rating.
 
What Wally said. The brand of spot or flood lamps is less important than the specifications. Regardless of the wattage you prefer, be sure to buy 130 volt lamps. Standard 120 volt lamps can not withstand the spikes up to 125-128 volts that are common in most electrical circuits. The 130 volt lamps burn cooler and last at least 4x or 5x longer. They also emit about 10% less light, but the difference of illumination is not usually noticeable. I buy 130 volt spot and flood lamps by the carton from a wholesale electrical distributor.
 
Buyer Beware

For those who are seeking cheap Compact Fluorescent Lamps (CFLs), be sure to avoid the brands made in China. Their internal ballasts can overheat, rupture, and shot flames out the side of the lamp. Framer Roy Hermann recently sent me a photograph of one that almost started a fire in his home.
 
I agree. Can't wait till LED technology is improved to give better looking light at a decent price.
:cool: Rick
 
The FNV is a 60 degree wide flood. The EXN is the 38 degree flood. The EXZ 24 degree narrpw flood, the EXT 11 degree spot.
 
Maybe I didn't give enough info. What I have uses a MR16 12volt bulb. I usually buy a 50 watt. I don't know if they have a LED that will work, but that would by way cool (pun intended). They burn very HOT, so I don't pay much for heat in the winter, heehee. I just needed to know opinions on flood.
 
Thanks Peter, so if my fixtures are mounted on the ceiling and set out from the wall 3ft, in your opinion which would be best?
 
Try www.1000bulbs.com Lots to choose from and great prices. All different levels of light. I use 12V35W FMV. I buy the cheap one and they last 6 to 10 months in most cases. You can get better ones and even LEDs there. Stocking levels are great so generally shipped within 24 hours.
 
Jerry Ervin said:
All of us need to stock up on bulbs. We want be able to buy them after this year.


I buy the Sylvania 130 volt PAR30 bulbs from USA Light

They work great and last longer than the 120 volt. The reason is, you are running them below their rating and not right on the rating.
Click to expand...

Jerry - you are mistaken. What you will not be able to buy is an incandescent lightbulb, which none of us should be using anyway.

A HALOGEN lightbulb will still be avaialable in all sizes as will halogen replacements for the "A" type lamps that are being phased out.

PAR (a type of lamp) in 20, 30 and 38 (a size nomenclature) are still being made and will continue to be made in either Halogen capsylites, or LED or Compacy Fluorescent equivalents (though they will not be PAR lamps but will fit the holders).

BTW - a 130 volt lamp will last longer, but the CRI and light output will be significantly less for the same amount of watts used. So just be sure that the longer life is more beneficial to the lower output and yellower color.
 
To the OP: Which one is "best" is a difficult question. What are you trying to do? How long is your track run and how many fixtures are you using? Electronic or magnetic ballasts (could also explain the short life of the lamps)? Open back or closed fixtures (important for both heat and the ability to retrofit with LED replacements. Anything else on the circuit?

Are all 35 fixtures on one track? 35 fixtures @ 50 watts = 1750 watts @ 110 volts is more than 15 amps.......

Do your fixtures have a cover glass or do you want a lamp with a cover glass built in? Dichroric coating or an Aluminum coating (important for heat considerations when lighting art.)

You say your tracks are three feet from the wall. How tall are your ceilings and what is the distance from the center of the art you are lighting to the ceiling? That will help to determine what the aiming angle of your fixtures are and the beam spread (photometrics) of the appropriate lamp.

Not trying to give you a hard time but lighting is not as simple as throwing up some track and putting in some bulbs - as was demonstrated in my lighting class at the WCAF. Lots of photos of shops and galleries from across the US with tracks and bulbs and poor results.
 
Jerry Ervin said:
OK here we go....WHY?
Click to expand...

Why what? Why shouldn't we be using them or won't be able to get them?

Why should we not be using incandescent bulbs? Because they are terribly inefficient. Almost 95% of the energy used to make light is lost as heat. The technology is as old as the lightbulb itself. As the tungsten filament burns, deposits from the tunsgten collect on the interior glass and the bulb "dims" as it ages while still using the same energy. In fact, they are so inefficient that they are no longer being made domestically. California is a year ahead of the national ban and as of January 1st the 100 watt incandescent bulb is not longer allowed to be sold. In 2012 the ban goes into effect nationwide and then moves onto lower wattage bulbs until all incandescent bulbs will no longer be available. The CRI of incandescent lamps is very poor compared to better alternatives.

Halogen bulbs are not incandescent. The aging process in Halogen is a recycling process where the metal is redeposited to the filament and reburned. Halogen lamps should not dim as they age. What may make them seen dimmer is the cover glass ( for MR 16 lamps) getting dirty. Not a problem for PAR type lamps. Halogen light is whiter and produces "truer" colors.

I have seen tremendous progress in LED replacement technology, though a good PAR 30 replacement will cost you about $55 each - though the payback in energy savings is about 14 months. Plus they run cooler (but not so cool that a MR 16 needs an open back fixture and the better lamps have cooling fins.)

We showed over $1000 worth of lamps in the lighting class at the WCAF including a compact fluorescent BR30 lamp that was quite good. We also showed a $4 "internet special" LED MR-16 that put out light - though nothing I would use in my gallery to light artwork.
 
OK here we go....
WHY?
Click to expand...
... because they are the opposite of "green", and also greatly increase the demands for power consumption and air conditioning. Most of their output is heat, while the newer types of bulbs product mostly light. (at a fraction of the power use, and an increased life)

Some countries outlawed them already. This has been brought up in several threads here, over the years. I think it'll take a while before it actually happens. I believe Australia has a complete ban, as of the end of 2010. Brazil, Venezuela, Switzerland, and the EU started phasing them out in 2009. Cuba in 2005. UK in 2011. Canada, Russia, and Argentina in 2012. Malaysia in 2014. The states of California, Connecticut, and NJ have 2007 laws that phase them out by 2018.

President Bush signed it into federal law in 2007. This is the last year for the (current) 100w Incandescent, and 2014 is the last year for the 40w. (3 ways and utility bulbs are exempt) It's technically not a federal "ban" but requires 30%+ more efficiency. (so it kind of is)

CFL is a temporary stepping stone, imo. LED is where we are heading... although slowly.

Mike
 
Sorry, Rob.

I didn't realize we were answering the same question at the same time.
 
Mike Labbe @ GTP said:
CFL is a temporary stepping stone, imo. LED is where we are heading... although slowly.

Mike
Click to expand...

CFL lamps are potentially evil. More and more consumers think that that is what they have to buy to comply with the ban, but Halogen is the way to go- even for residential use. (until the cost and lumenousity of LED lamps improves) I use all halogen "R" type down lights and also MR-16 lamps in my house.

My biggest concern is the public will go the way of least resistance - meaning they will discard burned out CFL lamps in the trash where they will end up in landfills and eventually the mercury in them in our water supply. If you break one, it is a danger to pets and for you when you clean up the "dust". In addition, the very nature of causing phosphorous to fluores (glow) produces UV light (it is a bit more complicated - the phosphorous is added so the UV lightwaves created will be converted to visable light so we can see the output) but the UV is still there. I would not be surprised at a "surprise" finding 20 years from now in increases in skin cancers or other maladys.
 
Rob Markoff said:
My biggest concern is the public will go the way of least resistance - meaning they will discard burned out CFL lamps in the trash where they will end up in landfills and eventually the mercury in them in our water supply. If you break one, it is a danger to pets and for you when you clean up the "dust". In addition, the very nature of causing phosphorous to fluores (glow) produces UV light (it is a bit more complicated - the phosphorous is added so the UV lightwaves created will be converted to visable light so we cann see the output) but the UV is still there. I would not be surprised at a "surprise" finding 20 years from now in increases in skin cancers or other maladys.
Click to expand...

Thanks You made my point for me


From the EPA website

http://epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

Cleaning Up a Broken CFL

What to Do if a Compact Fluorescent Light (CFL) Bulb or Fluorescent Tube Light Bulb Breaks in Your Home: Overview


Fluorescent light bulbs contain a small amount of mercury sealed within the glass tubing. When a fluorescent bulb breaks in your home, some of this mercury is released as mercury vapor. The broken bulb can continue to release mercury vapor until it is cleaned up and removed from the residence. To minimize exposure to mercury vapor, EPA recommends that residents follow the cleanup and disposal steps described below.

This page presents only the most important steps to reduce exposure to mercury vapor from a broken bulb. View the detailed recommendations.


Before cleanup
Have people and pets leave the room.
Air out the room for 5-10 minutes by opening a window or door to the outdoor environment.
Shut off the central forced air heating/air-conditioning system, if you have one.
Collect materials needed to clean up broken bulb.
During cleanup
Be thorough in collecting broken glass and visible powder.
Place cleanup materials in a sealable container.
After cleanup
Promptly place all bulb debris and cleanup materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area until materials can be disposed of properly. Avoid leaving any bulb fragments or cleanup materials indoors.
If practical, continue to air out the room where the bulb was broken and leave the heating/air conditioning system shut off for several hours.






There you go, this can't possibly be 'better' technology.
 
We have recycling centers around here, and you have to personally hand over the bulbs to them for disposal.

And the little twirly things that you screw in your lamps, dont last as long as incandescent.

I got a dozen free from my power company two years ago. They lasted no time. Box said "Made in China".

No Kidding! They are trying to kill us.
 
PAR30 and PAR38 bulbs are no longer available at the Box stores here.

They do have LED replacements that will not fit my Gimbel Ring fixtures for around the $50 per price. The output is about half the output as the 75 watt bulbs I use currently.

Will they save electricty? Sure. Is the light equivalent? Defiantly not


How about your open bulb chandelier at home? I have four rather large ones in my home. None of the 'new technology' bulbs are going to look right.


What was I thinking


Silly Me
 
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