Please help me cut Top Mats with a CMC

David Knox

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Feb 8, 2001
Posts
429
Loc
Hillsborough NC
I read so many good comments on the G about Bainbridge's new Top Mats, and loved the look so much, I started offering them as soon as the samples arrived. And I thought I remembered some positive comments about how well they cut on the CMC. A customer placed an order for 20 mats... good. Distributor had them in stock... good again. Whipped them up onto the CMC... bad! With the two recommended mats on the backboard of the CMC, we can't get these thick ones to slide into place. Do you Wizard users always use two mats as backing on the cmc? Did you remove one of them to cut the Top Mats? Wizard's stance is that officially it won't cut the Top Mats. Thanks for your help.
 
Wizard's stance on this is apparentlythe same as that of cutting 8-ply. The machine isn't designed to cut them Wizard says you may burn out the motors.. Altho me and many others do it, it's a royal pain. Here's how we cut these things. Take out one slip sheet and leave only thebottom sheet in Wizard. Then adjust the blade depth. Problem is, I've got my blade perfectly adjusted to cut both linens and 4-ply. SO I wind up cutting these new Bainbridges and my 8-ply on my manual C&H.

Now, you may ask, what's the point of owning a Wizard when it isn't cutting a lot of the new mats? Glad you asked. Wondering the same thing. If you knwo where to find her, Margaret Test, who told me about the 8-ply trick, has more info. She's on Hitchhikers, or used to be. I don't log on there anymore, so maybe she's still on there.
 
Sherry,
Just so happened that I cut my first Top Mat on my Wizard CMC yesterday afternoon and it did a beautiful job. Yes I did have to adjust the blade depth quite alot but it cut without incident. I did have to remove 1 of the 2 slip sheets so that it could slide in easily.

I'm probally having a senior moment but for some reason I remember Nona and Wizard stating that these could be cut on their CMC without any problems. Please correct me if I'm wrong, if I am then I probally just voided my warranty yesterday. Oh well........


Roxanne
Langley House Gallery
Spring, TX
 
Thanks so much. I thought removing one of those slip mats was the answer... just wanted to hear what you guys did. We'll complete that job tomorrow and I'll let you know how it went. I would have managed one or two on the manual cutter quite well, but didn't want to tackle 20. Thanks again.
 
What is the "Top Mat" from Bainbridge? I get all updates and have not received this one--AND I am the guilty party Mike spoke of. I agree with Mike about what a pain it is to cut 8 ply on Wizard--I wish they would just get with it and find a way we can do it without all the cheat steps.

Yes I found a way to cut them (8 ply)--is it worth it? Not really, it is a hassle. At first I thought I found a great answer, but the hassle--blade out just right and all --it just isn't worth it. I cut 'em the old way now.

I also hate the way the Wizard cuts v-grooves, while I am at it. The dog-gone borders will never match up flipping it front to back. A really stinky method---and yes I found a way around that too--but it still stinks.
 
Margaret, they are not quite as thick as 8-ply and come in a few selected Alpha colors. At least one that I remember has a black bevel. Very sharp looking and I hope will look great after they are cut on the CMC. If you want to read more, there is an earlier thread which discusses them in more detail. I probably wouldn't have even bothered the G with this question except I didn't want to cut 20 of them by hand.
 
First, let me say that I know nothing about adjusting Wizard blades.

Would it be possible for Wizard to make a longer blade in addition to the current blade? Would that solve the 6/8 ply problem?
 
I have had great success cutting the new Bainbridge Ultra Thick mats with my Wizard. These mats are actualy closer to a six ply mat in thickness. I also beleive that there is not as much sizing in the paper so that it is a little softer and therefor easier to cut.

Here is my method for cutting these mats.

1. Put a sharp blade in your Wizard in the usual manner. Their newer polished or stropped blades do cut better than the old style blades.

2. Take a red Sharpie marker and draw a line on the blade depth adjustment screw from the center out to the 12 o'clock position. Draw a line on the head block that lines up with your first line.

3. Turn the blade depth adjustment screw 2 revolutions counter clockwise. line up your two red lines.

4. Replace the head to it's cutting position.

5. Remove one of the slip sheets from the Wizard cutting board leaving just one in place.

6. Take a scrap of Ultra Thick mat and do a test cut.

7. Adjust the configs to get a perfect corner. If you do not know how to set configs check your Wizard manual. Save this new set of configs as "Ultra Thick".

8. Cut your mats.

9. When you are done cutting these mats open the head and turn the blade adjustment screw 2 turns clockwise lining up your reference lines. Reset your configs to cut standard mats.

I hope this helps. These mats do cut nicely on the Wizard and they look quite nice. :D
 
I thought I should chime in here if for no other reason then to answer Michael Le Compte’s question about 8 ply and the new Nielsen Bainbridge 6 ply/Top Mat.

Rona Edelman from Nielsen contacted me some months ago to test the new mat board on our system. We completed the tests and found that our machine cuts this mat beautifully, with a few simple adjustments to the blade and configurations. I could not have stated the procedure better than Bob Shirk (thank you Bob) has here.

Our position on 8 ply remains the same. So I will repost my previous comments about 8 ply within this message.

"Does Wizard International (as a Company) advertise that the equipment will cut 8-ply? BIG NO!. The machine was not designed to cut it, and the stress placed on the drive system is significant enough to scare us. Have we seen our systems cut 8-ply? BIG YES! However, we have specifically told our Help Desk personnel not to teach this. I liken this to someone who removes the governor from a car engine to make it go faster. The manufacturer doesn’t advertise the new top speed nor do they teach you how to achieve it. There are always a few individuals who “think outside the box” and come up with a way to make equipment out perform the manufactures specifications, so for those of you who are doing it, good for you I am happy you’ve found a solution for your machine. Please remember however, that all of our machines are not the same, some of the older models may not accept the strain.

Please believe me when I say that 8-ply is such a frequent topic here at Wizard, I have dreams about it (nightmares?). Also, please believe me when I say we don’t have cotton in our ears, nor blinders over our eyes. As Frazier would say, “I’m listening”."

For the Wizard customers who have spoken up here with your helpful comments for Sherry, please accept a big thank you from me.

Edd Pratt
Sales & Marketing Manager
Wizard International
 
Bob Shirk--I'm wondering if doing all that changing with blade depths and config changes, etc etc isn't just as time consuming as slapping that bad boy onto your C&H and cutting it like we used to, then you've left your Wiz configs totally alone and untouched.

just an idea
 
Ya know, after reading all the posts in this section I was thinking the very same thing.

When did framers get so dependent on CMC's?

There was a time not long ago when any framer worth his or her salt wouldn't shy away from an order that called for cutting twenty 8 ply mats using a C&H cutter.

I still think that I can set up and cut double mats as fast or faster than a CMC. And the registration of the two mats will always be perfect.
 
Of course you could just get a Fletcher-Terry F-6100 and drop in the 8 ply or 6 ply blade holder as needed. And stack 6 mats in the clamps if you’re worried about alignment. And cut perfect ovals and vee grooves and......
 
Originally posted by Perimeters:

I still think that I can set up and cut double mats as fast or faster than a CMC. And the registration of the two mats will always be perfect.
I'm guessing that you haven't used a CMC. I think your statement might be delving into the realms of fantasy just a little. ;) ;)
 
I can say from our experience of cutting the 20 top mats yesterday that we could never have done the job by hand as fast as the Wizard did! Maybe as good but not as fast. And efficiency is one of the big reasons I decided to go with the Wizard in the first place. In Wizards' defense, their official stance is the cutter will cut the Top Mats... I mispoke in the initial question because I learned yesterday after a call from Wizard that when my assistant called Wizard on Wednesday she asked about cutting 8-ply, rather than Top Mats. I apologize for the confusion and thank Wizard for being on the ball and calling me. Changing the blade depth was not the problem for us; getting the mat into position on the backboard was the real question. We change blade depths almost daily because we use about as much suede, linen, etc. as alpha mats. Thanks again to all who helped clear this up. By the way, those top mats are beautiful for all who haven't begun using them.
 
Have we seen our systems cut 8-ply? BIG YES! However, we have specifically told our Help Desk personnel not to teach this. I liken this to someone who removes the governor from a car engine to make it go faster. The manufacturer doesn’t advertise the new top speed nor do they teach you how to achieve it. There are always a few individuals who “think outside the box” and come up with a way to make equipment out perform the manufactures specifications, so for those of you who are doing it, good for you I am happy you’ve found a solution for your machine. Please remember however, that all of our machines are not the same, some of the older models may not accept the strain.
So, "those few individuals" can someone post how to cut the 8 ply on an older/newer Wizard? like Bob did about his settings for Top Mats? THANX!
 
Micheal and others,

I still have a 60" Fletcher 2000. I could have cut those new mats on my Fletcher but I would have had to cut a few test mats and tweak the blade depth and stops on my Fletcher. Overcuts are not an option in our shop.

Once I set up configs for a type of mat board I save them so that with 4 mouse clicks I can have perfect corners in that type of mat board with my Wizard any time in the future. I have to pop the head open to change the blade. If I am cutting the 6 ply mats it just takes a few seconds to turn the blade depth screw. I put the registration mark on the screw many moons ago and there is no need to change it once it is there. I'll change the blade when I go back to cutting 4 ply board and return the screw to it's original setting at that time.

To answer your question, NO it is not easier to use a manual mat cutter. Anyone with basic user knowledge of their CMC can cut Kobi corners in triple mats around someone with a manual mat cutter.

I have looked at the Fletcher and the Eclipse CMC machines. They look like fine machines to me as well.
 
Back
Top