Piping for air

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JbNormandog

JbNormandog

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Apr 8, 2004
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NJ
What do you use for running an in the ceiling air line?

I have looked at kits that can run hundreds of dollars, they use aluminium or threaded steel.

I am thinking it will run about 85 lbs and will need to span from compressor to equipment about 35 feet.

Any suggestions or ideas?

I have run systems in a gas station and several garages but would like to hear any ideas that I haven't run across.

I would like to avoid using a hose in the ceiling because of wear life and breakage in the long term.

(I looked at garage-pak.com and got some ideas so far)

Thanks,

Bob
 
I would go with plastic(pvc). Either rigid or flexible. Probably 3/8" or 1/2".
Easy to install with either glue for rigid or compression fittings for flex.
I am using 3/8" flex no problems.
 
Doug I read a few articles about the pvc shattering.

What kind of pvc is ok?

Bob
 
The lumber yard down the road recommends against pvc, they like galvanized pipe. Are you thinking about going over 300 psi? Isn't that what pvc is rated for? I think you'd be using 100-125 psi and regulated out at the tool outlet at 85 psi.
 
If you use PVC, you need to get the one rated Schedule 80

For galvanized pipe, you could drop to Schedule 40 seamless.

I have seen PVC pipe explode before. One of my friends nearly lost his left eye from a mishap.

Not this ol' boy.

Run it with metal or just use hose rated for 150 psi or better.

The black or red rubber air hose sold at most places is far better than the plastic hose and only cost a little more.
 
Bob Doyle said:
Are you thinking about going over 300 psi? Isn't that what pvc is rated for? I think you'd be using 100-125 psi and regulated out at the tool outlet at 85 psi.
Click to expand...

I was thinking out of the compressor under 100 then step down out by the tools.

Will that eliminate the shattering issue?

Bob
 
JbNormandog said:
I was thinking out of the compressor under 100 then step down out by the tools.

Will that eliminate the shattering issue?

Bob
Click to expand...
What do I know about air pressure? I'm a framer! There's a fairly good DIY forum that could answer these questions better. I'd trust a HVAC tech more than I'd trust a framer on this question! (Or follow Jerry's advice) I think it would be good for a long while, but after the pvc degrades, or it gets really hot and pressure builds up, well, my insurance would pay if properly coded metal was used, if improper pvc was used they'd not pay any claims for injury or damage
 
2-guys-garage show had a really slick 'kit' that is plactic pipe---all the fittings were push-ins----an absolute dead-bang easy install.. however, have NO idea on cost....pressures are NOT a problem with the sytem(this was auto garage with hoist in the system)
 
johnny said:
The fire inspector here had a real big problem with air hose in the ceiling.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry....but most fire inspectors have a problem with almost EVERYTHING!
 
Some years ago I lightly bumped a pvc T fitting that was part of a big air loop pressurized at 90 psi. I bumped it with the end of a piece of molding I was turning to fit into the saw. The pvc T shattered, the contents of the compressor tank and the air loop decompressed with a pretty dramatic whoosh and the quick connect fitting on the end of the pvc T rocketed across the room and embedded itself into the drywall.

At some point during this process I dove for the floor and lay there dazed and sawdust covered until I picked myself up and managed to close the compressor outlet. Since then I have favored black iron pipe although copper works nicely if you can solder.

Fire marshals frown on pvc and air hoses in the ceiling because they quickly melt in the event of a fire and the uncontrolled air rushing out can cause a disastrous blast furnace kind of effect.
 
Schedule 80 Dimensions
Nom. Pipe Size (in) O.D. Average I.D. Min. Wall Nom. Max. W.P. PSI**
1" --------------- 1.315 ------ .936 ------ 0.179----------- 630

Wow..... I guess my 12 year old system is a ticking time bomb. I'd better rip it out tomorrow. :icon11:
 
Prior Discussion

This has been discussed before. PVC is a very bad thing when it comes to Air Piping. There is a substantial difference in air piping and water and PVC is a wonderful differentiator. As evidenced by some of the examples given earlier in this post. Please stay away from PVC. It is a ticking time bomb....

http://www.thegrumble.com/showthread.php?t=25496
 
Jerry Ervin said:
Baer, It is like riding a motorcycle without a helmet.

True, you may never have a problem, but if you do it can be bad.
Click to expand...

Bad analogy Jerry. The five accidents where I wasn't hurt (beyond a cast or new leathers and a headache where the ones where I wasn't wearing a helmet.
The two that put me in hospitals were the ones WITH helmets, and the one helmet almost paralyzed me for life.

Personally, this summer, I probably will be taking the 1-2 hours to swap out the old system for Schedual "K" copper. I've nine sticks of 1-1/2" laying around for about 7 years..... it's time..... I'm not going to make that frame...
 
You should not be going over 100 psi for any of your tools, so for the ease of installation I would still go with pvc or flexible rated for air. (if allowed) yea yea how many of us will actually call an inspector, I am going to put a time bomb in my ceiling is it ok and hire a plumber to install the piping?) Any lumber yard that sells air driven nail guns will have what you need. If you go with copper or metal pipe, make sure you have a drop off before each tool as metal will sweat.
 
Baer Charlton said:
Bad analogy Jerry. The five accidents where I wasn't hurt (beyond a cast or new leathers and a headache where the ones where I wasn't wearing a helmet.
The two that put me in hospitals were the ones WITH helmets, and the one helmet almost paralyzed me for life...
Click to expand...

If you are recommending that anyone ride without a helmet, you should be ashamed.
:kaffeetrinker_2:
 
One of the advantages of iron or copper pipe that's often overlooked is that plastic is a pretty good insulator. We've used plastic going on 30 years and haven't killed anybody, but we recently changed to black pipe to get rid of condensation. The air coming into the shop in the summer is pretty hot and the shop is air conditioned. We had a 12 ft. drop into a water separator but still water moisture got by and over one summer ruined two air motors. We replaced everything with iron and built a condenser which along with the 12 ft drop has eliminated moisture in our lines. You can see the shop built condenser at the Frame Outlet's web site in Back Room Gallery. (www.fwfo.net). We've got about 200 ft. of pipe run and another 150 or so of pex. I think we have the compressor outlet regulator set to 80 psi. From the compressor to the condenser we still left the pvc in place. If it ever blows, we'll replace it, but I doubt it'll ever be a problem.
 
Pat Murphey said:
If you are recommending that anyone ride without a helmet, you should be ashamed.
:kaffeetrinker_2:
Click to expand...

Heck, my nephew was wearing a helmet when he crashed and he was still killed. If you ride without a helmet you're counting on good luck to protect you, and nothing more.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic...
 
I'm not sure if this is the "kits" you are referring to, but there are some real nice modular systems out now. Kaeser makes a really nice one.

Of more traditional systems, I would definitely recommend against PVC of any kind. Copper is good, cast iron is great as long as you have an air dryer - otherwise you end up with a lot of rust...

You can use copper even without soldering if you use the flexible tubing with compression fittings. You need to make sure you get the right type - there is a thin wall type made for gas that may not be strong enough. You can buy a 50' roll of 3/8 or 1/2" that is good for 1200+ PSI from McMasters that is specified as being good for air lines.
 
dougj said:
I would go with plastic(pvc). Either rigid or flexible. Probably 3/8" or 1/2".
Easy to install with either glue for rigid or compression fittings for flex.
I am using 3/8" flex no problems.
Click to expand...


I used the above system at my largest store. It worked fine for about five years.

I was helping a customer, and I heard what sounded like a shotgun blast, then the noise of large amounts of compressed air escaping. We use a sixty gallon compressor at 150psi. We have regulators at each station.

The PVC had just given up, it could not handle the pressure over a long period of time. We changed over to black iron pipes with threaded ends. That is the only thing that is recommended by the city for compressed air. PVC is completely out of code.

I was lucky, none of my employees were injured and non of my customers work was damaged. It was one big mess to clean up though.

John
 
we use iron pipe with threaded fittings, drop downs and water seperators at each station and never have a problem with this Florida extreme humidity..in my other shop ( non- framing related) we use pvc schedule 80 because it is all exposed ( no ceiling panels ) warehouse type environment with no problems there also...the difference is the fire inspector was "happier" that we ran iron pipe in the ceilings rather than pvc, so we like to keep good relations with the inspectors was the main reason for the difference in both places/
 
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