Pinning Needlework

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Posts
16,932
From
Wisconsin
A very basic question:

For those of you pinning needlework to the edge of a board, what kind of board are you using?

Don't make me start a poll!
 

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Posts
16,932
From
Wisconsin
Well, that's what I use, too. Anybody concerned about the fome?

I don't want to get a big c/p debate going over fomecore 'cause, at this point, there's just no clear evidence that there is a problem with it.

I actually tried sticking a stainless pin into the edge of a piece of 8-ply rag - 'cause I like to be safe - and decided that ArtCare fome seemed like a pretty good bet after all.

But is anyone using anything else?
 

JudyN

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Oct 6, 2001
Posts
961
From
Montana ( A Tourist runs through it )
I have wrapped the core with a bleached muslin under the needlework. That would cover the edges anyway. We also use rag board over the top as it provides stiffener especially for large items. We also put rag corners on the back for added strength on larger items.
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2000
Posts
14,826
From
Jacksonville Beach, FL USA
Business
Sunshine Frames
Ron, In a fit of preservation frenzy I once drymounted two sheets of 4-ply together, making sure the dry mount tissue was cut back from the edge about 3/4". I then pinned into the unadhered area between the two boards. Since then I have used Art Care Foam Board with or without a 4-ply facing.
 

Sherry Lee

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Posts
2,228
From
Phoenix, Az.
Interesting question.

I use Bienfang rag covered foamboard (100% cotton rag surface). Someone once suggested that I use Crescent needleart board but I find it's too thin for pinning.....it could certainly be done, but would take more time I believe. I suppose I could use the Attach-EZ method and lace it from the back around the needleart board...perhaps I should try it one of these days.
 

Less

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 23, 2002
Posts
2,707
From
ZZ
I like electric tape and cardboard
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2000
Posts
14,826
From
Jacksonville Beach, FL USA
Business
Sunshine Frames
Originally posted by Lesster:
I like electric tape and cardboard
We knew that Less, but the question was about needleart. :rolleyes:
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Joined
May 19, 2000
Posts
19,066
From
Suburban Central Ohio
Board:
8-ply alphacellulose -- Or 2x4-ply boards vacuum-wetmounted together. Sanded edges.

Mount for cross stitch:
Insert Attach-EZ nylon T's about 1/2" apart all around perimeter of fabric, as far in from edges as practical. Then position the fabric on the board, and lace the nylon T's together across the back, in both directions, with light cotton thread.

This works like speed-laces on boots. Laces may be tensioned & retensioned as needed to straighten the weave of the fabric on the board.

I say this method is better than lacing or pinning, and here's why:

A) The stress of each nylon T is distributed over three or four parallel threads of the weave. But thread puts all of its stress on just one perpendicular thread of the weave.

B) Lacing may be done with lighter thread, which provides a more tension-limiting mount. If anything should happen that could tear the weave, the lightweight speed-laced threads would break.

C) As fast & easy as pinning, but with all the benefits of traditional lacing.

NOTES:

1. This method is suitable for coarse-weave fabrics. It is NOT suitable for fabrics with a fine weave, which could be damaged by installation of the nylon T's.

2. I recommend dulling the needle of the Attach-EZ tool with emery cloth before using it on fabric. Otherwise, careless use could cut the weave, but for cross stitch mounting, there is no need for it to be sharp.
 

Bill Henry-

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Posts
20,884
From
Boondock Bowerbank, ME
Business
Retired from the grind
If I am <u>forced</u> to pin, like Sherry Lee, I use 100% cotton rag foam board. But I cannot find a bulk supplier of “T” pins, so I am forced to buy them at outrageous prices at a local craft store. I use this method only for fine fabrics.

The bulk of my stretching is cross stitch or needlepoint. For that I use Crescent NeedleArt board and stainless steel staples (light duty stapler). For me that method of stretching goes much more quickly than pinning.
 

preservator

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Mar 23, 2001
Posts
2,209
From
Wilmington, DE
Try Dick Blick art supplies (800-828-4548) for nickle plated "T" pins. Those who are using
foam centered board might consider putting 4 ply
on both sides to keep it from warping, over time.
The material use on the back side need not be
pristine, since it is only being used for physical
strength.

Hugh
 

Framerguy

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Posts
7,261
From
Destin, Florida
I use Art Care foamboard, depending on the Zeolite technology to do what they say it will do.

I don't use "T" pins, I prefer stainless steel dressmaker's pins by Coats and Clark (part # N.212). There's 450 to a box and I buy 10 boxes to the case. I found them in a little craft store up North and still have a half case of them so I haven't searched around for a supplier for them since I moved. They retail for $2.70 per box of 450 and, by the case, they are around $1.85 if memory serves correctly. (Yeah, like THAT'S gonna happen!)

I am a little confused as to why you would need an extra layer of 4 ply underneath the needlework as 3/16" foam core is very rigid under normal circumstances. If you are trying to get enough tension in your stretched cross stitch to hit the key of "G" I suppose that the extra matboard would add the strength needed or as a double insurance that the board wouldn't somehow warp. I can see the reasoning in jim's method though, you would have even tension on both sides using his method and that makes perfect sense to me.

Framerguy
 

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Posts
16,932
From
Wisconsin
I avoid extra layers of board and often use 1/8" fomeboard for smaller pieces.

By the time we get the glass, a double mat, the 1/8" fome and another layer of board behind the whole thing, I'm starting to move into shadowbox territory as it is.

I'm still working through a supply of SS dressmaker's pins that Mark sent me in late 2002.

I might try Jim's idea, though. They usually work.
 

Steven6095

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 14, 2004
Posts
1,352
From
Nicholasville, KY
....just had to add this.
Recently re-framed two 8 x10 approx needlepoints for a customer. Been framed two years ago be another place for about $125 a peice she told me.

..Brown packaging tape with a peice of cardboard cut from a Crescent mat box.....

not kidding.
 

Rebecca

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 28, 2002
Posts
3,339
From
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
You might also consider wrapping the boards with Insulite (a needlepunched polyester quilting padding) so that the wrap around edges of your textiles are padded. If you look at antique samplers or older textiles that have been "wrap around" mounted, the fibers are weakest at that edge point.

I attach it to the reverse of the board with encapsulation tape, 3M #415. Jim's encapsulation tape (another 3M #) would be just as good if not better. It doesn't ravel, so you can cut squares out at the the corners for a nice "slim-fit".

If you want to get realy fancy, you can cover that that with washed, unbleached muslin.

Hugh's suggestion about nickle plated pins is good as steel, even stainless steel, can rust under the right (i.e. wrong!) conditions.

Rebecca
 

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Posts
16,932
From
Wisconsin
****! I thought the stainless-steel vs. nickel-plated pin issue had been resolved to nearly everyone's satisfaction.

I have crates of nickel-plated pins which I abandoned in favor of the stainless steel. 'Course, I didn't throw them out. I don't throw ANYTHING out.

Wouldn't the kinds of conditions that would rust stainless steel cause all sorts of other havoc with needlework?

But I am nothing if not flexible. Any chance of a consensus on the pin deal?

I didn't think so.

Sounds like we're all okay with ArtCare fome for needlework, as long as it's encased in titanium first.

Seriously, Hugh and Rebecca, I appreciate your ideas. You keep us all on our toes, and I don't want to appear ungrateful.
 

Framerguy

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Posts
7,261
From
Destin, Florida
My understanding of stainless steel products is they are made of a blend of steel, chromium, and nickel and are, under normal conditions, highly corrosive resistant. Since stainless steel is an actual blend of these ingredients and not simply a protective coating over mild or ferrous steel, there is no chance of the protective coating deteriorating and causing long term corrosion as may be the case on plated steel and the associated damage to whatever is adjacent to the plated steel.

2 areas of increase of corrosion of stainless steel that are noteworthy and common in the commercial usage of stainless steel is salt water environments and high heat. Neither of these exceptions should have any impact on framing uses for stainless steel products.

And that is all I have to say about that. F. Gump - 1994 ;)

Framerguy
 

Bill Henry-

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Aug 17, 2002
Posts
20,884
From
Boondock Bowerbank, ME
Business
Retired from the grind
pins, I prefer stainless steel dressmaker's pins by Coats and Clark (part # N.212).
I guess my failure to take Home Ec has left me wondering ... don't dressmakers pins have such small heads that they will pull through the fabric? Excuse my ignorance, but I've never used anything other than "T" pins.

... and thanks, Hugh, but when you add shipping to Dick Blick's prices, they aren't a whole lot less than what I'm already paying.
 

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Posts
16,932
From
Wisconsin
don't dressmakers pins have such small heads that they will pull through the fabric?
You would think so, wouldn't you Bill? But, so far, I've had no problem.

I guess it could be an issue with certain types of cross-stitch material. (I don't know what it's called, but it looks like chicken wire.)
 

Rebecca

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 28, 2002
Posts
3,339
From
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Re the stainless rusting, it's just that I've seen it happen on ss pins. Once when I accidently left some pins near the sink and they sat in water for awhile. Once when some papers I had pinned were stored in a basement for a number of years.

There are lots of grades of stainless steel, and these experiences lead me to think that pins aren't made from the very top of the line alloys.

Coatings and plating can, of course, be damaged by nicks and scratches, but my reasoning is that they are less likely to scratched and nicked in the frame than they are to be exposed to prolonged high humidity. That's a pretty convoluted sentance.
help.gif


Rebecca
 

Framerguy

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Apr 12, 2001
Posts
7,261
From
Destin, Florida
Oh great, now I am getting worried!

I completely understood a convoluted sentence on a Saturday afternoon!! :eek:

Could this mean a cranial revival for me?? ............... Oh, probably not.

FGII
 

Susan May

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
May 28, 2000
Posts
5,929
From
moved to Clermont, Florida
The quality of stainless steel pins depends on where they are made. Some companys use old cars, and other recycled metal to make their "Stainless Steel". Other companys actually make STAINLESS STEEL!

If you have pins made in Mexico, or China, they might not be truly Stainless.

Buyer Beware.
 

Rebecca

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 28, 2002
Posts
3,339
From
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Might be fun to do a stress test on all the different brands and types. It would certainly be illuminating. May have time next year :rolleyes: Anyone else???

Rebecca
 
D

Dermot

Guest
Rebecca

Great idea…..just so that there is some consistency in the test method, keeping us all on the same track… would you care to suggest some sort of methodology……..I’m sure there is a test for steel/metal some place…… but I would have the feeling that it could be quit complex for what is need for Needlework/Framing…..

I would suggest that it would simply be called the “Pavitt Needle Corrosion Test Method”
 

Ron Eggers

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Thread starter
Joined
Jul 6, 2001
Posts
16,932
From
Wisconsin
There is a popular tattoo parlor directly across the street from my shop. (Very entertaining for my customers if they have to wait for their turn.)

They seem to do a lot more piercings than tattoos. I'm sure I could recruit some volunteers to insert different brands of stainless steel pins through various body parts for some specified time period, and then return to check for corrosion.

It's been a long time since I got to do a science project.
 

Rebecca

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 28, 2002
Posts
3,339
From
Vancouver, B.C., Canada
Brrrrrr Ron. What images that puts in my brain! :D

Dermot, I think it should be as simple as possible. Something like making a small mock up of muslin pinned to foamboard, using the various types of pins.

I'd make a humidity chamber out of a big glass jar, with a damp/wet sponge on the bottom, and suspend the mockup in the jar. I'd also have a humidity reading card in there, or if I had lots of money, a data logger, or both, so that I could see what the RH was.

And wait till something happened.

With any luck, nothing would happen!

Thought experiments are so much more fun that actually doing them. Something like home renovations. ;)

Rebecca
 

MatFramer

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 7, 2002
Posts
345
From
Michigan
As one who sews in my "spare" time and have done so for many, many years (more years than I have been framing) I shall give you my thoughts.

Many years ago, like in the 70's, I would get started on a project and not get back to it, if ever. Often, the pins would be stuck into the fabric and after several years I would discover the pins had rusted and could not be pulled out of the fabric. Fast forward to the 90's. I am still prone to start something and forget about it. However, it has been many years now and I have not seen any dressmakers pins rust for a long time. I usually buy a better quality pin from a fabric store. I never buy pins that are on specialy for $1.00 or whatever. I go to the notions section and pay for the best they have.

Ron, unless your pins are very old, I don't think they would damage anything. You are also correct in the fact that anything that would make the pins rust would probably damage the fabric also. I am also an avid cross stitcher and, because of my experience with pins for so many years, I still use dressmakers pins that probably aren't stainless on my own very detailed pieces. A number of my pieces have been framed for over 18 years with no problems.

Now, I just have to get those samplers off that sticky board from the late 70's. THAT is what I really need to worry about.

By the way, the nickel plated pins seem to be stronger than stainless steel.

Candy
 
Top