Picture frames are not important.

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Bandsaw

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Posts
973
A great frustration to me is that I can go online to look at whatever art I'm currently interested in and I can find thousands of images and almost always without frames. The Getty, The Queen's collection, the Whitehouse, the Met, the Louvre, the Rijksmuseum, the Guggenheim, the National Gallery of Canada - no Frames - just an image of the painting cut out of the frame. One of the current displays at the Met on 20th century British printmakers features an Artist whose work I have framed many times over the years and I would sure like to see how others have framed her art - but no frames.

Picture Frames are important to me!
 
Yup, welcome to my world.

Some museums are actually "getting it". I bought a book in Florance at the Uffizi that was specifically about the FRAMED art. Not only was every picture inclusive of a frame, some even had no picture of the art..... how cool is that?! :D

We know we have made progress when a MFA includes 12 units of course work and hopefully with 16 units of lab, about the history of frames.... which should also be taught in design, architecture, and social humanities. Maybe in 3008 . . . .
 
I think it's great if there's an awareness of frames, and an appreciation for what great framing can do to enhance everything from a masterpiece on down to a child's crayon drawing. As a framer however, I respect that what goes into the frame is the star of the show; the framing serves as the supporting cast.

Although it is subjective, I believe framers can sometimes place too much importance on their framing, thus allowing it to over-power it's contents. New framers in particular, tend to overdesign.
 
I've been struggling with this too. As an artist and a framer, both are important to me. I am showing my art on my website with the frames in the picture. However, every other site that has art for sale shows no picture frame. I've been considering showing only the art, but that would mean I'd have to email the framed art to interested ones so they could see the frame anyway.

I have no solid answer, but if you come up with one please let me know too!
 
But if I can't see the art displayed in it's frame, I can't form an opinion of it being over or under framed. I would grow as a framer if I could study frames more easily.

On the other hand it has often surprised me how many framers have little knowledge or interest in art.

After 32 years of framing a vast variety of art I find myself more interested in art every day. And this interest has connected me with more artists and increased my business.

Framers, including here on the Grumble, have often joked about artists as customers but artists and framers mature and some artists have become valuable clients as the years go by.

I have fun framing a child's crayon drawing, or a Grandma's photos but being trusted to design and handle a great piece of art is special.

Baer - as a woodworker have you admired the butterfly key that holds the split together in the Mona Lisa? Wouldn't it be fun to be trusted to lay chisel to that slab of poplar? And I wonder about the framer that long ago trimmed it down to fit a frame - picture framers have always been brave!
 
Beveled,

Always give the customer choice. Not the choice of buy or not buy but the choice of buy this one or that one. Show your art without frame and then show it framed pointing out that the art can be framed in any style that suits the client. I always like to point out that framing must agree with the art but to a certain degree the frame is furniture and must agree with the room and the client's taste. This statement often gives the client direction in choosing frames.
 
Recently the Cincinnati Art Museum held an exhibition of works from its permanent collection that had not been on display for a while. It was called Long Time No See. The pieces themselves were wonderful, but what made it even better for me was that they were displayed on "walls" that had been built of 2x4 framing but with no surface boards. Therefore, one could see the backs of many of the framed items, some of which had interesting and elaborate treatments to meet unusual needs and to support the works in their frames and for hanging. For me as a framer, this was the best of both worlds, "recto and verso".
:cool: Rick
 
I once saw a frame job on one of my pieces that absolutely ruined it; the frame and mat was so distracting you no longer saw my art at all. This was by a well established competitor. How much the customer had in the decision making process I don't know. Many times I've had to guide the customer to a less distracting 'package' when they came in to my frameshop/gallery.

I try to go neutral and subtle with most designs, telling them that they will change the furniture and wall colors much more than the art and then it will still go with the new decor.
 
Bandsaw, which split and which butterfly?

Now if you like Butterflies, get this one. The apple is about 1" with out the stem. The apple and stem is all one piece. The apple is "Spindle wood"... don't ask, I couldn't figure it out either... I'm thinking a kind of maple or apple though.
The butterfly is olive. He sets the butterfly in the block before turning the apple on a spring foot lathe that his great grandfather built. Only the rope and spring have been replaced by his father. The butterfly is only about 1/8" (2-3mm) when he sets it in the block.... then turns it. there is no glue, the two go in an oven that is connected to the furnace. After a week or so the key is shrunk just enough. He chops the mortise and sticks the key in and leaves it for a few days. Once the key has returned to normal moisture content, it's never coming out.

AppleButterflyE.jpg
 
Back in 1503 Leonardo started painting the Mona Lisa on a slab of poplar. The painting was removed from it's original frame a few hundred years ago and to allow for wood movement and it started to crack at the top. In the mid 1800's 2 butterfly keys were installed in the back to stop the crack. About the time it was stolen in the early 1900's one of the keys was lost. A loose oak frame with beech cross braces was installed and later the beech was found to be infested with bugs so maple braces were used. That piece of poplar has done well over the past 500 years. If you want a good view of both the front and back go here:

http://www.louvre.fr/llv/dossiers/d...LLV_OAL<>cnt_id=10134198673229908&bmLocale=en

That little key in the apple is fun - woodworkers can be a little fanatical. I know a couple of chairmakers that use the drywood fitting technique for spindles that then lock in when the moisture content rises.
 
A few years ago, the San Diego Museum of Fine Art had a show that was just picture frames. It was a great show. Some of the frames that they displayed seemed awfully much like a few I have tossed out in the past, being young and stupid at the time. Now, as an older and not quite as stupid picture framer, I am not so quick to toss old customers frames away.

Frames of interest I talk my customers into keeping them, as they could have value. Every now and then, they will just give them to me, but sadly, not all that often.

The San Diego Fine Arts Museum regards picture frames as an art form in themselves.

John
 
Sorry to arrive late to the discussion, but the Cummer Museum of Art in Jacksonville, Florida notes data about the frame (maker, condition, restorations, etc.) on the information for works of art on display. A nice touch.

Joseph
 
50-50 Proposition

As a framer I believe my job is to get the consumer to look FIRST at whatever I put in it. However, I will go to my grave believing that my work stands for 50% of the proposition. I love and support artists of ALL kinds. However, it is difficult to get one to admit that the frame DOES matter...to the point that they are willing to invest in doing it correctly. Most of the selling artists I know would sell a whole lot more if they took more care with the presentation.
 
I have an artist working part time in my frame shop - I thought that would never happen. She is a young, talented, successful painter and she likes framing. Her taste in frame design is so close to mine it's amazing. She frames her oils in wonderful fabric wrapped liners and classy Roma frames and she frames her watercolors in triple mats seldom using white. No metals frames, thanks. She won't even show her art unless it's framed. She sells well. She listens and asks questions about framing techniques. She is precise and uses the techniques I show her. There is hope after all.
 
Baer,

Just think, you could have watched prime time TV instead of visiting the Louvre for 3 hours.

I watched prime time TV once.

Did you notice that the Mona Lisa although painted on a slab of wood seems to have a canvas texture?
 
Franny said:
As a framer I believe my job is to get the consumer to look FIRST at whatever I put in it. However, I will go to my grave believing that my work stands for 50% of the proposition. I love and support artists of ALL kinds. However, it is difficult to get one to admit that the frame DOES matter...to the point that they are willing to invest in doing it correctly. Most of the selling artists I know would sell a whole lot more if they took more care with the presentation.
Click to expand...
YEP!! Although the Yahoo arts group I`m in will differ,and loudly(I can`t sell matted/framed stuff,they scream...) MY experiences differ.I had at least 5 people seriously considering a print I had made/matted,but declined because they wanted it framed("If you`d framed this I would take it").Sounds like a buyer`s excuse I know...But it wasn`t.I nearly sold out of every FINISHED 2-D I had out....same people......Presentation sells! L.:D
 
Bandsaw said:
A great frustration to me is that I can go online to look at whatever art I'm currently interested in and I can find thousands of images and almost always without frames. The Getty, The Queen's collection, the Whitehouse, the Met, the Louvre, the Rijksmuseum, the Guggenheim, the National Gallery of Canada - no Frames - just an image of the painting cut out of the frame. One of the current displays at the Met on 20th century British printmakers features an Artist whose work I have framed many times over the years and I would sure like to see how others have framed her art - but no frames.

Picture Frames are important to me!
Click to expand...

Going back to the original problem a bit... there are endless possibilities for framing art. Although it is attractive, people who sell art sometimes refrain from framing the artwork because they do not want individual taste to hinder someone from buying a piece they would find attractive without a frame selection. (Yes...lots of people who aren't framers have trouble visualizing other selections.) Sounds crazy, but its true. Couple that with the expense of framing artwork that may or may not sell and you can easily see it increases their investment as well as their risk.

I'd say in my shop, about 15% of artwork here is framed. The rest is left shrinkwrapped on foam. Of course, there are lots of framed examples of my work so there's no shortage on framed works but in general those displays aren't for sale. Near the holidays, I'll do more stock framing of artwork but overall, its wasted effort. People come here to pick their own frames...
 
The original point is that there are thousands of pieces of the world's finest art in galleries all over the world and they are framed. But online they are displayed without the frame. I would like to be able to see the art in it's frame. I may like the frame or not but either way I would learn.
 
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