Phaedra Miter System

Jason

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Posts
198
Loc
Iowa
I recenlt purchased the Phaedra Miter System for my miter saw. Does anyone own this system? Does the rule of having the rabbet face you when sawing apply when using the Phaedra. It seems when cutting this way, the rabbet is on the outside of the frame instead of the inside. I would appreciate any comment from other Phaedra users.
 
We just ordered one at the NY show and can't wait for it to come in.

The rabbet does indeed face you, opposite of how it's done on the Mors0 chopper. The unit has clamps for wood and metal profiles.

The only thing we need to figure out is some kind of vacuum/dust collection system. What do folks generally use? A commercial hepa system or something as simple as a shop vac?

Mike
 
We have owned a Phaedra for four years and are very pleased with the system. Yes the rabbit faces you, it has to for the measuring system to read correctly, don't forget to leave 1/16" extra for each cut to allow for a scouch more. We use the blades to cut metal moulding also (aluminum) and still have a good life to them. The blade my bind if you attempt to cut warped moulding, apply a bit of wax to the blade to ease the binding a bit. I recommend the larest diameter blade that is available for both accuracy and extra life.

Jack Cee
 
But how do you accomodate that rabbet-on-the-outside-of-the-frame issue?

It must be a bear to cut the glass.
 
Mike, I have been using a shop-vac 10 Gal. with a 6.25 amp motor. They have a bag for fine dust and I add the paper filter that wraps around the cage just before the exhaust. I (seem to) get no dust blowing through.

However right at the cutting area there is a good amount of dust that never gets caught up in the suction. There is a special cover that you can buy from a woodworking suppler that says it will catch all of that, but I have not yet tried it.

Anyone got a suggestion?

And about the rabbet being on the outside of the frame . . . I'm a lefty. So the saw works better for me. :rolleyes:
 
"There is a special cover that you can buy from a woodworking suppler that says it will catch all of that, but I have not yet tried it."

I use a Clearmount with a shop-vac and would love to find the cover you are talking about.

Thanks,
Barry
 
Jason -
The rabbet faces you for ease in making accurate cuts & for setting the stops - like Eric, I'm also a "lefty" but once you start using it you'll love the speed & accuracy of your cuts. Also when you set-up your saw I would recommend that you attach the measuring decals WITH the 1/8" glass allowance included - you'll see how in the directions - that way, when you cut a 16x20 it will automatically be 16 1/8 x 20 1/8 - saves a lot of extra figuring when you're doing production
Mike -
I haven't seen the special cover that Eric mentioned, we use a smaller flex-hose that attaches to the saw exhaust and that in turn goes into a larger diameter flex-hose. We still get dust - but, we do all our cutting in another building so it's not an issue.
 
I don't think there's a cover available that will pick up all&nbspthe sawdust from your saws. There will always be a little bit left in those areas where the airflow doesn't create a strong enough vacuum to pick up the dust and direct it into the vacuum system.

With that in mind, I built a shroud out of an old computer desk, or what was left of it after I tore it apart! I designed a simple box over the back area of my saw bench and installed a universal fitting available from most woodworking stores for vacuum systems. You can find these attachments in Woodworkers Supply, Grizzly, Lee Valley, and most woodworker catalogs that carry some line of vacuum systems like Delta, Jet, or others.

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I built the box large enough so that, if I ever decided to do straight cuts on either saw, I had the wood chips falling within the confines of the exhaust box.

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The carcase of the box was built out of the vinyl covered chipboard panels that comprised the computer desk. Nothing fancy, just an open box to keep the sawdust in one general area.

As you can see, there is some sawdust that is laying in the bottom of the box. I didn't touch anything when taking the photos so you could see what is left by the exhaust system in this design. It may look like alot of sawdust but it is really only about a half inch at the deepest in any area.

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The tubing is off of a steam cleaner, I think, and connected with a PVC connector. All just plain and simple construction but it works well and I take a dust brush occasionally and brush the excess sawdust into the chute to be carried to the exhaust bag.

For the exhaust system I used a little Delta exhaust system available at Lowes for under a hundred bucks.

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Since I am carrying the sawdust only about 6' I didn't need a large 2 bag exhaust system and this one works off 115VAC so I can plug it into the control strip with the saws so everything is controlled together.

Framerguy
 
Framerguy, that looks like a dandy vacuum set up. Where were you when I needed you?

I have had a Phaedra SawHelper since 1990, which was used in addition to a Morso chopper until we got a 30-year-old-but-perfectly-functional Pistorius double miter saw a few years back.

Over the years, with only marginal success I tried several box configurations to concentrate the suction of a large, ordinary shop-vac with the Phaedra. My conclusion was that nothing short of a "real" dust collector, such as Framerguy's or larger, would do the job.

Just before buying the big saw and dust collector, I was ready to buy two of the biggest, meanest shop-vacs I could find and run them in tandem behind the dustbox of my Phaedra.

A word to the wise: If any of you decide to retire your Phaedra or chopper in favor of a double miter saw, keep the old cutting tools as spares. You never know when those lesser tools will come in handy. Have you ever tried to cut a hexagonal chop on a fixed-angle double saw?

Just a few weeks ago I brought the Phaedra back in from my basement, for temporary use until I could figure out why one of the big saw's motors wouldn't go. It was a minor problem, but a time-consuming diagnostic ordeal.

In the meantime the Phaedra worked quite well, making me wonder why I spent all that money for all that saw that takes all that space in the back room. Anybody want a nice double miter saw? Make me an offer I can't refuse.
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Thanks for the great advice and pictures!
Mike
 
Jim,

Ya shoulda asked, my friend!! I was sitting here all this time just waiting for somebody to ask about exhaust systems on Phaedras!
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:cool:

My saw system should look very familiar to you if you bought yours in '90, that's when I bought mine, no measuring system on the infeed side, no fancy long clamps up front like they have now, just a very functional system that is easy to use and only limited by the size and options on the saws that you install on it.

Somebody asked on another thread about calibrating the Phaedra after the infeed and outfeed tables are removed and I never got time to reply. If that wasn't covered, I can say that the tables are self calibrating and don't need to be re-adjusted after removal. They have a positive system of attachment on the tables that will ensure that the calibration remains constant. I moved mine twice and took the tables off and removed the saws entirely from the work table both times. I never had to adjust the calibration in either move.

FGII
 
I'm glad to see something on the Phaedras system, I'd just bought mine and like it. But it was a bear to get the mounting brackets set up or at least for me. After that it a breeze, it helps to have a 6’ to 8’ piece of 2” aluminum angle to line up fences. A 4’ level work but the angle sure speed things up. Note I’m another right side of the brain thinker.

Kevin
 
Originally posted by Framerguy:
...My saw system should look very familiar to you if you bought yours in '90, that's when I bought mine, no measuring system on the infeed side, no fancy long clamps up front like they have now...
Yup. It looks about the same, but I bought the newer design clamps when they came out some years ago. Did you know there's a retro-fit kit for that? And as I recall, it was quite reasonably priced.
 
I wonder why I don't have much dust with my saw. It is a Brevetti and it has an acrylic box where the blades are housed, plus there are brushes where you feed through the moulding. I don't have any kind of dust collection system, it all goes into the bottom of the saw. There is a place to attach a dust collection system, I just plugged it up........hmmmmmmmm I do get residual sawdust on the fences and near the saw but it is easily vacummed up. It doesn't appear a lot is dispersing into the air and around the shop. Are you guys just particularly neat or what?

I know when I had the Deltas and the Phadera I had sawdust everywhere with the dust collection system the previous owners had set up. I hated the noise of the saws and the shop vac. Cripes, I had a thumbnailer then too, what a racket that thing made and again sawdust everywhere even though it had a collection system attached.


....and by the way, not sure what it has to do with the subject but I am also a lefty!
 
Originally posted by Emibub:
I wonder why I don't have much dust with my saw.


....and by the way, not sure what it has to do with the subject but I am also a lefty!
Uh, Kathy, ............... did you plug it in??
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Lefties, one and all!! The South (paws) will rise again!!
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:cool:

(Ya notice which thumb that li'l graemlin is holdin' up, don'cha?)

FGII
 
We also have the Phaedra system and it has been great for our frameshop. My partner is a lefty, I am a righty, but we both setup and cut the same way with the rabbet facing toward us
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. Our sawroom is separate from our other work areas so we use a shopvac when needed. I just drooled over the double saws and exhaust system--I will keep dreaming.
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Framerguy, the greamlin is holding up his left thumb because he bashed it with his hammer! That's why its sooooo big. He's a righty, and clumsy like the rest of us righties to boot!

I'm a righty in a sea of lefties. 2 brothers are lefties, my son from my first marriage is a lefty, my daughters a lefty, my mothers a lefty. I'm either a "corrected" lefty or a very clumsy righty!
 
I'm a righty, but my father was ambidextrous.

Does anyone feel there's a huge difference between the one saw Phaedra system and the two?

The guys at the booth sited only a time savings with two but not an accuracy issue with one saw being moved back and forth. Particularly with the Dewalt, they said. It has a self centering doo-hickey that falls into the degree notches. And the notched degree plate is stainless and replaceable if it wears out.

Forgive my language, I'm new to saw lingo.
 
Maria,

Back when I bought my Phaedra the saws weren't quite so accurate and I would have recommended definitely having 2 saws. Now I don't really know about the new technology in chop saws but I had to calibrate both my saws and I don't think I ever would have the accuracy I get if I had only one saw and had to move it back and forth.

I have always bragged about my cheap chop saws' accuracy in cutting miters, as Ron alluded to in another post, and they really are more accurate than the average chop saw that you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot. But I had to do alot of work on them to get them that accurate. Shimming and calibrating and drilling new detents was done before I ever cut my first miter with them. They were set up to an absolute 90&#186 vertical and an absolute 45&#186 left and right miter angle before I was satisfied.

Yes, to answer your question, I would personally have 2 saws hooked up with each one cutting the left and right miters. It is faster and you don't have to guess if the miter is accurate when the saw is switched from one side to the other. Stainless steel detent plates or not, I would not depend on somethng that is manufactured for the accuracy of a building contractor to do the work we must do.

Framerguy
 
I recently imported a Phaedra unit at a good price and with great service from the folks there - but have just more or less finished setting it up - so haven't done more than a few test cuts yet. So far, looking good.

I pondered the dust problem for some time... the shroud idea is difficult for my 12" Bosch sliding Compound saw as the slider would demand a huge box.

However, I have tried another idea with some success - a funnel that delivers a high proportion of the dust to the vacuum system attached to the dust chute under the motor. You can see the short PVC pipe I have attached to the end of the chute, ready to be connected to my mini-cyclone vacuum system which is not in the pics. (The mini-cyclone plans and details are on the Aussie Woodworker's Forum. It's a dust collection gizmo powered by an ordinary vacuum cleaner. It saves filling your vac. with dust - rather, the dust ends up going thru a cyclone-like action which deposits it in a closed bucket. Done properly, only air goes into your vac. bag.
By the way - domestic vacuums have superior suction for these small-pipe applications. The big workshop collectors with 4" pipes won't work well on 1"-2" pipes as they are designed to move huge volumes of air - which they can't do through small pipes).

Now, this is my first attempt at uploading pictures anywhere - so I hope this works!

The first two pics show an ordinary oval-shaped funnel - the type used for motor oil, etc... just a bit of hacking, a couple of screws plus small wood scraps and liquid nails to hold it in place and silicone to fill the gaps...

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It's not perfect and requires some more tinkering - the blade directs the dust towards the chute but some dust gets thrown right into the upper corners of the funnel (on either side of the chute) and out again, so these should probably be blocked off flush with the entry point of the dust chute, so that all dust is directed into the airflow instead of being able to find those dead-end upper corners.

A couple of close-ups may help...

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When the saw is dropped fully down in the cutting position, the funnel does touch the table, squashes up a little and thus widens itself with the pressure (the plastic is fairly soft and pliable) - thus catching even more dust.

Hope that's helpful to a few dust-covered drop-saw owners.
Rod
 
Dust Collection

We just ordered one at the NY show and can't wait for it to come in.

The rabbet does indeed face you, opposite of how it's done on the Mors0 chopper. The unit has clamps for wood and metal profiles.

The only thing we need to figure out is some kind of vacuum/dust collection system. What do folks generally use? A commercial hepa system or something as simple as a shop vac?

Mike

I use a Sears upright 5hp wall mount vac with an acessory switch from Sears (I am sure it is available from other places.) With the switch, when I turn the saw on the vac comes on. The hose that came with the vac connects to the back of my saw with just a (non glued) pvc adapter. Almost no sawdust gets by it.
 
I use a Sears upright 5hp wall mount vac with an acessory switch from Sears (I am sure it is available from other places.) With the switch, when I turn the saw on the vac comes on. The hose that came with the vac connects to the back of my saw with just a (non glued) pvc adapter. Almost no sawdust gets by it.

That is very similar to our setup, but our wall mounted came from Home Depot; more than 5 years ago

That post of mine that you quoted was from March of 2005. I believe Phaedra is gone, but the product and our dust collection system are happily chugging along :)

Mike
 
I'v used the Phaedra system at three different frameshops in the last 15 years and every shop owner loves it. As far as the dust catcher that catches everything, it doesn't. It is a box that supposedly catches falling dust and then is sucked in by a shop vac. Unless you have a Hemi powered shop vac, it doesn't have the suction. Maybe we should call the guy who invented the Dyson vacuum!
 
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