Pay for Moulding Corner Samples??

Val

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Nov 21, 2005
Posts
6,729
Loc
Carson City, Nevada
Since I've only been the owner of this business for 6 months, and have been away from the ordering end of framing awhile, I'm wondering if I've missed something along the way.

I just opened an account with a vendor who delivers in our area weekly, free delivery for orders of $125+. (Not LJ) I usually just order supplies and matbd from them. The rep came in awhile back and I ordered moulding samples. About 70 of them, he had some interesting mouldings like nothing else I already have. Delivery guy forgot them, so they sent them UPS at no charge. Today I get a bill for $224 for the moulding samples!

Rep didn't say I would be charged, and I don't remember if he said I wouldn't be, but no-one else has ever charged me for their samples, so I assumed....(I know!). I just called and was informed that it would "probably be okay", if the rep told me they were at no charge, but I know I would've remembered if he'd told me I would be charged, and wouldn't have ordered any at all. Charging is "standard procedure" he (I believe the guy on the phone is one of the owners) said, for new accounts.

Why am I surprised at this, and why do I feel like it's weird to charge me to sell their mouldings? If they decide, in fact, to charge me, I'm ready to send them back, they're still in the box, and say forget it. Am I over-reacting here (just because it's my 16th day in a row working and I'm kinda tired?)?
 
Ok, perhaps we shouldn't assume, but I've been at this for almost 18 years and the only moulding sample charge I've ever paid was freight. And only Decor and Omega charge me that!
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I think your salesman should have made you aware that samples aren't free with his company. I feel charging for samples is the exception; not the rule.
 
I just ordered aobut 80 samples from Wall Moulding and they are charging me freight charges only. I think that is fair if they don't have truck delivery in your area.

I have not paid for any frame samples but would pay for closed corner if I found any that I liked. (I really haven't been looking either.)

Framerguy
 
In 1986 everyone charged like a buck or two per sample.. except LM. They charged a foot... they had expensive moulding.

Now the charge is built in and everyone else supports your new samples...

There is no free lunch.

Agree to pay for the samples [if you think they will be hot sellers] in exchange for a 20% discount across the board. Or make the rep pick them up. He only has to drive from Reardon doesn't he? :D
 
Or pay for them only if you get a credit of the same amount when you order from them. Otherwise, send em back.
 
a few years ago when I worked for "THE" Jim Walter Corp. (housing materials manuf.) they forked over somwhere in the 1/4 MIL range in shingle samples yearly(they didnt change the lines all that ofter & there werent THAT many NEW roofers each year--get the picture???). The requests for samples were NEVER questioned, just "which colors/styles,. They simply had to absorb this cost-of-doing business or have the roofers court the other makers.
For the rep to "neglect" to mention this very important fact is inexcusable...I like what Baer said if you cant negotiate a "no-pay", pay up & "in exchange for a 20% discount across the board", if not drop tham like a hot rock(AFTER youve sent back the sample for refund)
 
I didn't pay for anything and that includes shipping.

Sometimes I will get a fedex package of samples from vedors I don't even use for free.

I would raise a stink if you like tham and get them for free or if they are just run of the mill samples send them back or give them to the rep.
 
I was onced charged for samples ordered with a rep. Upon receiving their bill I sent them a rental agreement and bill for the space they would be using on my wall. Received a call from the rep and was told there would be no charge.
 
It could simply be a foopahh. Someone may have neglected to put it in the computer wrong. So check into and see. It could be operator error...someone thinking about how nice it is today outside and drifting off into neverneverland. So check first.


PL
 
I'm not directing this at Val specifically, but I don't think it's terribly unreasonable to charge for corner samples for a framer who is not an established customer. Somebody (the established customer) is going to pay for those free samples you all expect.

But it should have been made clear up front. Rebates are a reasonable compromise, but they are a pain.
 
I did, they're checking...had to reach the rep first to see if HE says he told me there would be no charge! Said if I didn't hear from them, consider it "taken care of". To his defense, he was very nice about it, and I probably (?) won't be charged after all, or at least given credit on my next order(s) toward it. I asked to be called whether or not, thank you.

I guess what bugs me is that they'd charge at all in the first place, or, if I hadn't questioned it and just paid the thing (NOT!). Apparently, it isn't a fauxpah (fowpah? foopahh?), he did say it's "standard procedure" to charge for the new account moulding corner order, unless the rep says otherwise. Seems bass-ackwards to me. Or just plain wrong.

And seeing how it's been 105+ degrees there, they probably weren't distracted by how nice it was outside! Ha!

I just wondered if things had changed (again!) while I was away from the ordering end of the biz. Seems not.
 
Ron, I was an established customer at one time, in a different shop and they knew that. And I have been ordering from them the past 6 months, just not moulding. But I do agree with you about that it should've been made clear up front, if there were to be charges. That's all.
 
Everybody has to pay for his ticket.The ultimate frame costumer has to put his tuchas in his car, fill it [the car] up with gas, and drive to see one ore more framers until he decides what frame he needs and who is to do the job. Then he needs to do it again and come down, pay for the frame and take it home. All those expenses are his and only his and no framer in his own mind would ever offer to pay fot the gas. Right? Because buyer's expenses are none of his busines.
The framer is paying for his rent, his workers, his materials etc. Except for corner samples!
If you were to sell shoes, TV's, food, glass etc would you expect free samples? Nope!
But being a framer is something so much more special.
In fact those who think that they never paid for samples are for certain to be paying in perpetuity a small percentage extra for every molding and, for those of you who struggle with their bottom line, that percentage may one day make the difference.
 
I think there is a slight differences between a showroom full of thousand dollar TV screes, Subzero fridges, stainless steel ranges, etc, and frame samples that are produced by the millions of feet.
 
Paul, the only difference is price. One is less expensive than the other, which still is not a
synonym for free.
One more observation here, if I may. Today's pricy corner samples are of very good and rare quality. I bet that you don't refuse to pay for say AMCI's samples because APF-Munn is begging you to pick up theirs for free. With other words, it isn't like you will get better corner samples for free, from equally good or superior suppliers when you refuse to pay for samples from anyone of them. "Free" samples are of so and so or even less than that quality and you confine your choices to that area when pretending and shooting for free samples only.
On the other hand, if you attend to less demanding and affluent frame costumers, very good quality corner samples on your wall may sit there for ever witout scoring a sale. And then why bother to spend money on very good samples anyway?
I must admit that Jerry is right. Closed corner and length molding corner samples are very different. But still we talk of frames in both cases and either one had required some measurable amount of money to be produced.
 
I was charged for regular length moulding samples. I would expect to pay for closed corner ones. I do not expect to pay someone to sell their mouldings for them.
 
Can I point out that in the "Olden Days", we bought two foot pieces and made our own. Sometimes it took a very long time to get them made. Possibly that's why it is better for the company to give them, ready to go, so they can get on the wall. Free samples also encourages experimentation with a line or new company. Styles change so fast any more, it could really add up trying out new things. Just a thought.
 
As a "home" based framer, I do not have a problem with paying a LITTLE bit for my samples.
Usually I will just request 10 or so with each frame order and they take care of it no charge.

For you all with retail / store fronts, etc - if they make money off of you already, why should they charge?
 
If someone comes into your shop just to warm up in the winter or to cool off in the summer, you probably don't ask them to help pay for the cost of your heating or cooling bills (though we wish we could.)

What we do is add a little to every framing order to pay for those utilities. The people who actually do business with us pay for our utilities.

The people who come in, browse, hang out, etc. get to enjoy the utilities for free.

That's how free corner samples work. None of us wants to pay for them, but the only way you're actually getting them for free is if you never buy a foot of moulding from the company.

That makes us happy, and we seem to think it's our right, but is it fair? Does it sound like a good business practice for the vendor?

Why should we pay the moulding company for the priviledge of showing their mouldings? Because we hope to make a boatload of money selling them and it costs them money to make them.

Just to be clear: I never liked paying for corner samples and I rarely DID pay for them. But I'd rather pay up front for samples that I'll actually use than to pay for boxes of samples sitting in someone else's basement.

(Please don't screw up my analogy by pointing out that utilities are a fixed expense.)
 
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