Opinions Wanted PAPERWORK....... Signed Credit Card Slips to be specific..

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blackiris

blackiris

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Aug 31, 2007
Posts
10,624
Loc
Sandwich, IL
SOOOOOOOOOOOO

How Long do you keep these little guys?
The SIGNED credit card slips????? 3 years? and for what? everything is in my
computer backed up anyway?


I'm sooo SICK OF PAPER!

I dont print out actual reports every single day anymore either...
Just once a month....
 
Your merchant agreement should stipulate that. There should be no need to keep them any longer than the dispute period unless they tell you otherwise.
 
7 years .... that's what the government here requires from us for our bookkeeping. I just take all my slips and all my customer files and store together in a file labelled for that year (2 years prior to my current year) and shove to the back of the drawer in case an auditor ever comes in ...

Each year I get to throw out the oldest file (I like to use mine as fire starter rather than spend time shredding)
 
you don't have to save individual credit card statements for the IRS. Most stuff for the IRS needs to be saved for 3 years but somethings is 7 (usually the statute of limitations on most things is 3) and its only bank statements, company reports and such. As for signed receipts it shouldn't be more than 90 days talk with your merchant service people and find out how long charges can be disputed.
 
TEKniques said:
7 years .... that's what the government here requires from us for our bookkeeping.
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nikfrz said:
I use the 7 yr IRS rule
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I don't know about Canada, but in the USA you need to have certain "records" for seven years. We have records of credit card payments going back over 20 years via the invoices we generate (in PDF form for probably the last 10 years) and bank statements that show the deposits. The credit card slip itself adds nothing to it and is totally unnecessary for the IRS.

Disclaimer: I am not an accountant or IRS agent nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
 
I don't know if this is a Massachusetts thing or a federal thing, but since the TJ Maxx mess a few years ago, we are REQUIRED to encrypt ALL credit card info from customers or keep it under lock and key. I don't know of any time-frame for that Encryption or Lock-Down. I had to file for a certificate that we are "Identity Theft" safe. Since we don't use a computer to store customer info, but use a lockable file cabinet, we were fine as far as earning that certificate.

Since the TJ Maxx Info Theft was Cyber, storing customers info on your computer is LESS safe, than having it on paper.

Using those signed slips as a fire-starter is a GREAT way of dealing with that sensitive info! I'll have to keep that in mind when grilling season starts in a few months--mmmm!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
978-745-9524
artcornersalem@verizon.net
 
wendy lang said:
...we are REQUIRED to encrypt ALL credit card info from customers or keep it under lock and key.
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There shouldn't be any "credit card info" on your slips, unless you are using the old knuckle-buster. Even those, if you are using modern slips, should only be recording the last 4 digits (although a savvy thief could probably get the rest of the number by somehow manipulating and analyzing the imprint).
 
I keep most for at least seven years. However, if fraud is suspected I believe the IRS can go back as far as they want.
 
I just wonder why we have to keep them for so long....... for what?
I have never looked back in the little papers where the customer has signed them?
I'm ready to have a big bon fire! :D :D
 
David N Waldmann said:
There shouldn't be any "credit card info" on your slips, unless you are using the old knuckle-buster. Even those, if you are using modern slips, should only be recording the last 4 digits (although a savvy thief could probably get the rest of the number by somehow manipulating and analyzing the imprint).
Click to expand...
The slips spit out by my machine have the full number on the actual signed slip. The receipt given the customer doesn't.

Wendy Lang
The Art Corner
Salem, Ma
 
wendy lang said:
The slips spit out by my machine have the full number on the actual signed slip.
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I strongly suggest you check and see if this is allowed in MA. I don't believe it is anymore, anywhere in the USA. Even if it is, I personally would have it changed.
 
wendy lang said:
The slips spit out by my machine have the full number on the actual signed slip. The receipt given the customer doesn't.

Wendy Lang
The Art Corner
Salem, Ma
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I don't think we're supposed to do this, even for the store copy that they sign. (unless you use an old knucklebuster device)

The FACTA law from 2003 started protecting privacy, saying that we couldnt dispose of anything with customer info on it. (it had to be shredded etc) It also said that the CUSTOMERS copy couldnt have more than 5 digits, no expiration dates, etc. Final compliance date was 12/1/06. If someone turns you in, the fine for either is up to $1000 fine PER SLIP/VIOLATION - plus legal fees and damages. (codified at 15 U.S.C. § 1681c(g))

There are laws in some states that the MERCHANT copy can only have the last 4/5 digits, and cant include zip code or CVV code, or expiration date. It was pending in several other states, but I know these for sure.

  • Colorado - as of 01/01/2006
  • Tennessee - as of 01/01/2007
  • California - as of 01/01/2009
  • Alaska - as of 07/01/2009
  • Nevada - as of 07/01/2009
  • Washington State - as of 07/26/2009
I thought this rule went nationwide in 2010, but I can't find any supporting documentation on google. (about merchant company not having full card #s, storing customer info, etc) I know my provider changed in 2007 or 2008, to remove this info from the merchant copy. They told me it was because of new laws, but maybe they meant in other states.

Does anyone else know about this?

Mike
 
I would "think" my credit card processor would keep its customers up-to-date on these things. (Am I ###-uming?) We got a new machine in 2008, so if Mass. had that law in place then, then the new machine should have been programed that way. I shall call them and ask.

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
I was told by my processor that it was a national requirement NOT to print full #s.

There were (are?) a number of companies that sprang up offering "Security Audits" and some kind of "certification." Even some of the processors were putting an annual charge on processing for "privacy audit" or some such. My processor said it was almost a scam.

Essentially they were programming machines in violation of the national regs, then charging you to fix what they did.

I've been running with the same processor for a while now, so it's all somewhat of a foggy memory.

P.S. the main reason you need them is if there is a charge dispute.
I staple mine to my nightly cash/sales reports which I file. At the end of the year, these files get boxed and stored in case of an IRS audit. Although everything is POS/Quickbooks recorded I've always felt that hardcopy backup was important. I believe (but am not positive) that the IRS can go back 7 years.
 
YOur processor won't neccessarily tell you about the requirement.
Mine didn't.
I switched to another processor because of it.
 
I made the call today; am awaiting the return call on Monday. If not; I'll call back!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, Ma
 
blackiris said:
Thanks for looking into this Wendy!! :D
Click to expand...
IF my current processor doesn't have a good answer, then I'm going to look into a local fellow who runs a credit card processing company (located in a building that I salivate to OWN someday! Hee, hee!) He belongs to the Salem Chamber of Commerce, like I do, is a customer, and we say "Hi!" when we meet at Chamber functions throughout the year. I will ask him about the law. If NOT him, then my accountant AND lawyer!
I WANT TO KNOW!

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
1. Full credit card numbers are not to appear on any report, period. My old machine, when it batched at night had the full number for me. It did not print on the customer receipt.

2. New machine, the full number does not appear anywhere.

3. Why keep your signed copy - in case the customer disputes the transaction. I went five years without a question and then had two customers within the last two months dispute their charge. The customer could not remember paying the balance when they picked up their framed art, they thought they had paid in full at the time of placing the order. So they thought I was ripping them off with additional charges. As soon as I presented the correct signed slips by them, case closed. Simply put, they had forgotten what they had done but I could validate the dispute with the signed receipt.

4. I keep signed credit card receipts for 3 years, the credit card statement with my bank statements for the required IRS for 7 years.

On another note, we had a tip charge altered at a restaurant in NY while on vacation. Having our copy settled the dispute immediately. We now leave the tip in cash and charge the meal so there never can be a dispute. Lesson learned.
 
Frame Lady said:
On another note, we had a tip charge altered at a restaurant in NY while on vacation. Having our copy settled the dispute immediately. We now leave the tip in cash and charge the meal so there never can be a dispute. Lesson learned.
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While you SHOULD keep your copy to verify the amount, what's on yours doesn't mean a thing (unless it's the old fashioned NCR "Copy" type). That's what THEY are supposed to keep their copy for - to present to you or the CC company as proof that you wrote what you did. BTW, what matters is the total, not the tip amount.
 
Talked to my CC processor rep today, and she confirmed that the entire number should not appear on ANY slip. Then I asked her about remotely taking credit card sales, as in: exhibits outside our store in temporary locations. She talked about "Knuckle Crunchers," as in the manual swipe machines, which record the entire number once again! HUH? She said my instore machine could/would be re-programmed to not show the entire CC # from the customer, but then she casually allowed me to Ka-Chunk the manual swiper for outside transactions. WTF?

Investigating further...

Wendy
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
That's how its worded. The 1980's knuckle busters are free from all the privacy rules, other than not throwing the carbons or receipts in the dumpster.

Anything else should be re programmed. Most likely it was reprogrammed at the server level, and you just need to hit the button on the terminal to download the most current programming. When we had a Hypercom standalone machine (back before 2005, when we started doing it through the POS), i had to hit the INIT key. That would initiate a phone call, to call the host system. It would set the clock, and download the newest programming changes for our terminal.

It may not be the same for all terminals, but that's how ours worked. We would do it at least twice per year, when the clocks changed.

Mike
 
Yes, as Mike said, with Hypercoms (I have one) one should use the Initialize key to get all the latest updates, set the date and time, etc. including any new changes to the ever changing policies.
 
BusterBart said:
Yes, as Mike said, with Hypercoms (I have one) one should use the Initialize key to get all the latest updates, set the date and time, etc. including any new changes to the ever changing policies.
Click to expand...

We had a Hypercom before our store fire, now we have a Norit. The store location on this machine has not changed back to our original address since our fire and move-back, so up-dating is over-due!

I will tend to this tomorrow and find out about all the other questions that you have as I can! I'll try!

Wendy Lang
The Art Corner
Salem, MA
 
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