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wpfay

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Sunshine Frames
I got a whopper to do and wondered if anyone had any tips on making the whole process easier. The glazing will measure 68 3/8" x 113". I've got the frame & strainer figured and the glazing (acrylic 3/16"), but this puppy's going to be "floated" on linen covered rag board. Hinging shouldn't be a problem, but I do have a concern about the mount "bulging" in the middle since it will only have hard contact with the support board on the perimeter. I have thought of letting the linen extend off the edge of the mount and stretch it around the mount/ support/ strainer, much as you would a canvas so there would be less chance of the mount slumping in the frame, but haven't quite figured out how to keep the central area from bulging. Would this be another application for mylar straps fed through the mount and support and glued to the back of the support?
I'm having to build a new bench to work on this that will be 6' x 10' that I can disassemble and take on site to do the final assembly. I couldn't get it out my door once the artwork is in it since the orientation is verticle.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
Another LessaSketch
Lessasketchbigassart


No, I have not done this before, thanks for the strainer idea!

Oh, run the hinges through the Artcare

With the bottom hinges, you should be able to build it, tip it, and take it completely assembled.
 
Wally,
Clarify this for me,
What are you woried about bowing? The artwork or the backing board?
Re: the backing:
Could you dry mount or even PVA glue the linen-covered rag board backing to a sturdier backing such as coroplast or foam-core or gator board? And then you could even glue the sturdier backer to the cross members of the strainer.
I always try to wrap the linen around the edge of the backer- that way you have less of a chance of any cut/frayed edges showing or working loose or shedding.

What are you using for spacers?

Will you have a rag barrier between the linen covered board and the artwork?

This IS a big bad mamajama!

-edie
 
E, The linen covered mount bowing away from the polyflute support is the concern. I have had limited success in getting anything to bond well with the polyflute. I am expeimenting with the archival grade hot melt glue that is used to bond ployflute to itself to make boxes, or, as in this case, to attach the various pieces of the support board (largest I could find was 60x120).
As far as a barrier goes, I was planning on only using enough of the fabric to cover the exposed area, masking off the center, and removing that part that wouldn't be seen anyway. I'm figuring on a half inch overlap of the print over the linen. So, no I hadn't been planning on adding a barrier, but that's also why I asked, so would it be necessary or prudent to add a second layer of 4-ply? The frame and the spacers are ash painted matte white. They will be well sealed and painted using a conversion varnish.
Less, Thanks for the input. I was planning on a different pattern in splicing the mount and support, but yours makes more sence. Will still be doing this on site. There is more room there, and I don't want to assume any unnecessary risk involved in transporting. I am essentially opposed to silicon in this application. The acrylic folks say that their product doesn't bond well with silicon, and it's pretty much guaranteed to be messy. I am experimenting using the same archival hot melt to see how it bonds to the wood/acrylic. I can use this with greater ease and accuracy than silicon, and the results are instantaneous...will post under tips if the experiments are a success.
 
Wally,

I cannot imagine how you are going to apply hot melt completely around the rabbet of that large frame and place a rigid sheet of 3/16" plexi into that rabbet without the glue setting up prematurely! That is a long way around that rabbet!

Regarding a backing board, instead of polyflute, have you given any thought to other types of board? My source in St. Louis doesn't show poly flute in any larger size than 48"x150". That would require a splice somewhere.

1. Sintra comes in 60"x120" in 2,3,6,10, and 13mm thicknesses.

2. If you are going to splice the backing, you might consider Foam-Cor Xtra, a 1/2" thick foamcore that has 24 pt. clay coated paper facings. They are about twice as thick as regular foamcore facings. RynoBoard would also be a good high density foamboard to consider.

3. Another splice board could be any of the polystyrene coated rigid boards, GatorPlast, UltraBoard, DuraPlast, or Sintrex, all of which come in 48"x96" sheets and 3/16" up to 1" thicknesses depending on the board.

If you are planning on splicing the backing anyway, any of these boards would probably work better than regular 3/16" foamcore spliced together. I would think that the fewer splices you have to make, the stronger the overall package would be.

Framerguy
 
Hiya Wally,
Why can't you use "supersticky" ATG to attach the polyflute to the strainers? You could have it even "pre-applied" to the strainers before you go to it's final assembly place. And maybe that would also work to attach the linen-covered rag to the polyflute. Or even a combination of that and the hot glue...
So, how are you attaching the linen to the rag board?
Yeah, I usually do it the same way as you are planning to do with the linen backer. I often will pva glue a 2 or 4 ply rag barrier to the backer board area behind the print and hinge to that. I make that barrier almost the same size as the print.
How much of the linen backing "margin" will show beyond the edge of the print?
Do you have any special plans for the spliced area?
just wondering...
edie the splicing goddess
 
Hi Wally

Don't discount silicone completely.

The silicone I use is industrial grade Silicone II (not water based), and will stick to just about anything, and you will be able to remove it if necessary. Apply a bead sparingly around the inside corner of the rabbet, and drop the acrylic in place. It will have to sit over night. I guess you will have to support the center of the acrylic to prevent it from bowing before it dries.

What ever you do, keep us posted!
 
Tom,
I am planning on using 2 layers of the polyflute 4mm and splice them on the strainer, much as in less's diagram. The flutes of the two panels will be 90 degrees off to improve rigidity. The GE archival hot melt is designed to use with the polyflute, and should make a very good weld. I stock the 48x96 polyflute and ragboard. I don't know the archival reference of the other boards you mentioned, and I also don't know if they are readily available in this area. I got real luck in getting the last piece of 72x120 acrylic in the southeast.(Well, at least according to the local distributors that belong to national corporations). The trick with the hot melt is to put the acrylic in the frame and run a bead in the gap on the edge, squeezing the bead incrementally as you go. If I can use the silicon with success, I will forgo doing the hot melt trick.
E,
No pressure sensative adhesives. I've already gotten the lecture from Hugh Phibbs on the life expectancy of that, besides in Florida the stuff just gives out quicker. (Oh Hugh, you can chime in any time).
Was going to experiment with a beveled splice using heat reactivated glue. The back can be taped, and the front sanded and primed if necessary to hide the splice. I have heard of adding pigment to the fabric glue as well. I am still looking at the advantages of using fusion 4000 vs. mighty muck. I feel I have more control with the muck and won't be as reliant on the heat to get the fabric to stay in place.
Less,
OK, I'll check with the local acrylic guy about that kind of silicon. If you have any specific brand suggestions, please email me.

Thank you all for your input. I'm really glad that we don't have to frame in a vacuum anymore. I'm also tired of spending the hours of 2-4AM trying to solve all the various challenges this business offers. I must be getting at least 4 hours of quality sleep a night now that the Grumble is around.
 
One more suggestion for your backboard! Have you considered Tycore? It's a very light weight, very rigid, honeycomb paperboard (purified cellulose with alkaline reserve, archivally correct). It would be a lot lighter, and more rigid than a plyed Coroplast (aka Polyflute)and Artcare matboard. Less fussing too.

It comes in sheets 32" x 40" x 3/4" (4/order $135.00) OR 40" x 60" x 3/4" (4/order $290.00 OR 48" x 96" x 1/2" (6/order $610.00). Available from Museum Services in Minnesota 800 672 1107 or www.museumservicescorporation.com .

Expensive, but much easier to use on such a large project, and no adhesive problems. You can glue it to your wooden strainer with a strong white glue.

BTW I use 3M #415 double-sided tape to laminate Coroplast to Coroplast and/or matboard. I put it it around the perimeter and at about 10" - 12" intervals along length, and never had a problem with failure. Might be a better tape, or maybe just our cooler climate.

Rebecca
 
I see you're planning on glueing the plexi into the rabbet. Not a good idea. I did exactly that on a 40x72 once and a little problem cropped up. Plexi expands and contracts at a different rate than wood. In the pieces I did the plexi would expand during the daytime and force the frame apart until there was nearly 1/8" gap at the corners (it was a stem moulding with strainers so the back stayed together). A piece the size you're using could expand by as much as 3/8" depending on temperature and humidity fluctuations.
A better solution is to use a fillet in the rabbet to extend it to at least 1/2" wide, more would be better. Cut the plexi about 1/4"or more smaller than the fame, this will allow the plexi to move without hitting and pushing the frame apart.
If the art bowing out in the center is a problem you might add a couple of tab hinges in the center and pull them through the backing, leaving a little slack for expansion and contraction.
 
Hi Frank,

Interesting Tip - Thanks

I see you do art installation and framing. What exactly is Larson's Fine Art Services?
 
Rebecca,
Thanks for the tip in the Tycore, I will check into it.
Frank,
I would be curious to know the climatic changes that caused the expansion and contraction of the acrylic. It seems rather severe and would wonder if I need to take that much of a variable into account if the piece will forever be in gallery level climate control?
 
I have to admit that I really don't have solid numbers on how much expansion you could expect on a piece your size. The pieces I did were hanging in an atrium and got sunshine on them then cooled off considerably at night. They had to expand nearly 1/4" the long way to push the frame apart as far as it did. I do know that plexi is affected by heat and humidity. If your plexi is glued in place even a 1/16" expansion would put stress on the frame or cause the plexi to bow out considerably. If your piece is always in a climate controled environment this may be a moot point. However, how controled is your environment and who knows where it will be hanging 5 years from now?
Another point to consider is how much easier it will be to fit the piece together if you have the wide rabbet. You won't have to fight with the plexi to keep it from bowing out of the frame while your glue sets. You won't have to worry about getting glue where it would show. You can use a wider spacer (if you're using one). If your frame is a little bowed the plexi will still fit. All in all I really feel a wider rabbet is the way to go. But hey....it's just my opinion and I've been told I'm full of **** before! (and they were right)
 
Frank,
After reviewing the variables on this, and considering I have a lot of options, I think I will go with a wider rabbet (rebate?). None of the raw moulding providers have anything big enough in stock, and most of the moulding available have only a 1/4" rabbet, so it looks like I'll be milling my own. This way I can start with 8/4 stock and have a substantial body to the moulding as well as a 1/2" rabbet. You're not full of ****, well, at least not this time.
Thanks for the tip.
 
Wally,

Why not just rip the rabbet out on a pre-finished moulding using a table saw or a router? I do this all the time. Works great, and much easier than milling your own moulding! :D
 
If you have a source for the glazing (i'm assuming acrylic) why not use a 2nd peice for your backing. This way you don't have any splices to worry about and the backing and glazing will expand/contract at the same rate.
 
Duane,
The client wants a gallery style flat stem moulding of oak, painted flat white. I got some moulding in, but deemed it much too small. Relieving the rabbet on the mouldings that are available is not a good option for this project, though I will keep it in mind for future projects. I once was a partner in a cabinet shop, and still have shop privlidges, so the milling of this profile won't be a big deal. I'll also be able to make a beefier profile than is available prefab, roughly 1 1/2" face and about 4" deep with a 1/2"x3 1/2" rabbet. That with a 1x4 pine strainer, and a 1/2" x 2" shim should help with the strength of the frame.
Dave,
Another good idea, if the product was available locally, though it would add quite a bit to the weight. As I noted the company had only one sheet of the acrylic this size in stock, and all the other local acrylic suppliers, with or without national affiliations, had none. The nearest place I was told it was available was in Maine,and for whatever reason their price was about 3 times what I paid for the one sheet and that was FOB Maine.

I have talked with the suppliers of the polyflute and they have given me some tips on splicing and bonding, so I think I'll go with that, and if it works, I'll post it.
 
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