Overcuts ... to strive for perfection or not ....

ArtistConvert

Grumbler
Joined
Oct 21, 2005
Posts
27
Loc
Vermont
Greetings again,

When cutting mats, I always work very hard to ensure that I have no overcuts at all. Using production stops on the 2200 (one set for the 8ply and one for the 4ply) I found that only minor adjustments are ever needed to keep the corners sharp and without any overcuts. However, sometimes I end up having to manually detach the cutout portion taking a fair bit of extra time with a razorblade. However I always will err on the side of undercutting than overcutting.

I'm just wondering what other people's thoughts are on this topic. Do you worry this much about overcuts or do you find that people just don't care as long as they are not excessive? What measure do you use to qualify "excessive"? Is there an unspoken (or spoken) "standard" for what is acceptable?

Thanks, in advance, for any input or insight.
 
If you can see the overcuts, they are excessive.

Finishing the cuts with a spare blade is a time-honored tradition.

Funny story about that. I had just cut an oval on an old OvalMaster and there were a few spots that didn't cut through cleanly. I was finishing the cut with a blade when a customer came in and I absent-mindedly walked out into the retail area with the oval mat and the blade to see who it was.

The customer's jaw dropped and he said, "How long did it take you to learn to do that?"

I realized he thought I cut the whole mat freehand and I did nothing to discourage that assumption.
 
The person who trained me to cut mats was a fanatic. She would make you recut the mat if there was an overcut, curve or hook in the corner. I am so glad she was so picky. I have a bad habit now of going up to framed art in Doctors offices, lobbies and ect... I always check to see how good (or bad ) the mat cuts are.
 
Ron, that is so funny. So inocent and yet so old framer... :D

When you all are worring about overcuts just remember that hanging in the National is a mat and frame job done by Whistler himself....for all to admire or snicker at; depending on if you're a framer or not.
thumbsup.gif
 
Peter,

It sounds like you have standards and you're going to stick with them.

I bet it would drive you crazy to see a piece go out with an overcut, whether or not the customer even noticed or cared.

Congrats, you are a good framer.

I don't think there's a standard, spoken or unspoken, but I strive for no overcuts. It's just professional. Having to occasionally trim out the corners to get them perfect is a small price to pay.
 
Wow ... I guess I can tell my wife that I am *not* as crazy as she thinks I am ... or ... at least, I am not alone in my "craziness". I too have an irresistable need to closely examine almost every framed piece of art in any public place I am stuck waiting in .. like restaurants and offices


Just today, I was in a McDonalds and was waiting to get in to the single-occupant-capacity restroom when my wife came out of the ladies and caught me examining the decorator print on the wall beside the men's room door. She just shook her head and walked out to the car without saying a word


Oh well ... occupational hazard will now be my standard response. Thanks for making me feel more normal.
 
I was at a fall festival this past weekend and there was a vender with a lot of college named mats along with some peoples names, all cut with a CMC. I was greatly disappointed looking at the quality. Overcuts on every one of the ones I looked at, some really bad ones over a quarter inch long. Is this a setup thing on a CMC, or are they all prone to overcuts? Since I don't have a CMC yet is the reason I'm asking. Like most framers, I hate overcuts and do all I can do to prevent them. They very rarely if ever go out the door in my shop. But I sure wouldn't take the money to buy a CMC only to put out a bunch of overcuts with it. You wouldn't think a vender would sell stuff like that. Then again, maybe their customers are so wrapped up looking at how cool their school name is cut in the mat that they don't take time to see the overcuts. Shoddy workmanship in my opinion. The vender needs to get the CMC set up correctly or don't bother selling junk mats. Then again, I guess it makes the rest of us who care about doing good work look much better to our customers.

Rock
 
Peter,

Your approach to minimize overcuts in your everyday results by using stops is absolutely spot on! Measuring stops, when calibrated accurately will always yield more consistent results. (Hey....even Brian Wolf, the Master of hand control on his carved mats, uses stops on a manual mat cutter!)

As Ron indentified, you want to achieve an extremely small overcut that cannot be noticed. If you are trimming out the majority of openings by hand after cutting, then you need to adjust your (measuring stop) settings, as the constant trimming process can produce glitches in the corners even more noticeable than a minute overcut. :(

CMC's can be adjusted Rock, to eliminate and minimize overcuts. This is typically a software adjustment. The acute angles on some lettering fonts can be handled better by some CMC's than others. If the rectangles were not cleanly cut with minimal overcut, then the operator simply didn't have the machine properly calibrated.

Ahhhhh....the basics of picture framing. :D

John
 
I think it says here that John Ranes II, CPF, GCF will be covering all that and more at Las Vegas WCAF show on the 23 or 24th..... :D

Sorry, a shameless plug for John..
 
As a former picky framing customer, overcuts never bothered me. Looking at my collection, virtually all have an overcut over 1/8", but they are hard to see unless shine a light at a steep angle. Still, I stive to avoid them.

On my 2200, If I don't overcut at entry, I get this:
http://home.att.net/~jriegle/mat3.jpg
Note that the cut on the face of the mat is straight, but the cut on the back side hooked. The cutting head is tight and I checked the blade depth. I can't figure this out! HELP!
 
The only bad thing about stops is the reluctance of framers to reset it for a weighted bottom on the mats, which is needed, most of the time, for optical balance.

Most manual mat cutters still require skill to make them work correctly. When I taught basic framing classes, I would show how to do the cut. The student would do it perfectly for a few times, then the cut often would deteriorate because the stance would change, or the straightness of her/his arm as the cutting head is pulled down the bar or the way the hand is placed on the cutting head. Each has an affect on the cut.

Stand at the end of the cutter, your belly button lined up with the cutter bar. Make sure the hand goes inward, not outward as you push the blade in the board, then keep your elbow straight with the bar as you cut.
 
Hi Nona,

You state: "The only bad thing about stops is the reluctance of framers to reset it for a weighted bottom on the mats, which is needed, most of the time, for optical balance."

Excuse the newbie question, but do you mean by this that you use a wider/narrower mat border at the bottom than at the top? If so, do you do that always or under what circumstances? Do you have a formula that you use to calculate the offset? Is this only for photographs or does it apply to limited edition prints as well?

Thanks in advance!
 
Yes, the border along the bottom is slightly wider. I have my own set of guide lines. For borders under 3", I'll add 1/4" to the bottom. Over 3", I'll do 3/8 or 1/2". Depending on the piece, I may do something different. For prints that are signed in the white border area, I'll show 3/8 to 1/2" of white on the top and sides and more on the bottom to accommodate the signature. Framing is an art, so observe and try!

I've noticed over the years that many framers don't widen the bottom border. I guess it is easier for them to set the mat guide once and do the four cuts. Most experienced framers can cut a double mat on a manual cutter in a minute or two. Adjusting for a weighted mat shouldn't be a big deal.
 
There is no set formula for how much weighting, or even if there should be an added portion or not. The art will tell you because the need for it is visual. It has to do with size, the shape and the depth depicted in the art; deep, shallow, flat or vignetted. Some art absoluteley should be weighted and others not at all.

Skirting the danger of sounding self serving, I wrote about and show examples in "Color & Design for the Picture Framer" available from just about any book seller in the industry. I'll also teach a two day set of classes at the PPFA show in Orlando in February and will cover spacing, not just at the bottom but also how wide the mat and frame should be for different application, how much weighting and whether something can be in a deep presentation or not.
 
I have found that on nearly all mat cuts I have seen by hand, if they didn't take it out and finish it with a second blade, there were either some overcutting or hooking. You will usually have one or the other.
 
Originally posted by JohnR:
As a former picky framing customer, overcuts never bothered me. Looking at my collection, virtually all have an overcut over 1/8", but they are hard to see unless shine a light at a steep angle. Still, I stive to avoid them.

On my 2200, If I don't overcut at entry, I get this:
http://home.att.net/~jriegle/mat3.jpg
Note that the cut on the face of the mat is straight, but the cut on the back side hooked. The cutting head is tight and I checked the blade depth. I can't figure this out! HELP!
One thing that can stop that is to give the mat a little score before you actually dig the blade in. If you are already half way through the mat when your blade goes in, you won't get as much of a curve...I do a couple 'test' cuts about 1/4 way in before I actaually do the cut.
 
If you stand correctly and hold the cutter head inward, not outward, you should, get perfectly clean square corners.
 
Perhaps if you were to use 8-ply, single bevel blades (assuming that you are not already doing this), this might not be such a problem for you. That is all I've used on our machine and we've never seen this problem.
 
I am a fanatic about my corners. I do not accept any overcut period. I almost always slightly undercut my mats and finish with a thin gillette blade. Then I make sure my corners are perfectly square with mat files i make with 320 grit garnet sandpaper. I also will smooth the top edge of my mat bevels with my bone. I didn't realize how anal I was about my mats until I moved to my new shop with new employees. They all think my standrds are crazy. Well they are going to have to be crazy too.
 
I'm using the 05-012 blades that came with the machine (just got a week and a half ago). Thanks for the tips. I've already tried diving partly in ahead of the cut. I might have bad blades. The last one seems better, but I'm still not happy at all. I see the blades are sold by the 100. I'll see if I can get Fletcher to send a couple blades of each to see which works best for me. I need to get the bugs worked out soon!
 
JohnR i believe you want the 015 blades with most mats, acid-free, etc. always start with a sharp blade, just extended to scratch the slipsheet, start the cut and pull with the same motion, and don't try to carve the mat with a death grip. and do that belly button thing.
 
I have used the 015 for the most part since I got my 2100. I have used 012s but I just like the 015s better. I just like the feel they give using them.

Keep practicing with it. And seriously, try to score the mat as you approach the entry point. That is one of the best methods you will learn.
 
I use .012 on most mats with no problems. I like them because they are thinner.

Gosh, there is no reason to have overcuts on hand cut mats. Set your stops properly and you may not even have to finish your corner from the front.

Hmmm, RumGrumbler, Welcome to the Grumble from one cyclist to another!

edie the yumcandycorn goddess
 
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