Joe Dellert CPF
Grumbler
Can Anyone offer a resource that will explain the setup for making large oval frame in house.
oval wooden frames
- Thread starter Joe Dellert CPF
- Start date
Warren Tucker
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Making a large oval frame isn't easy. In addition to what I'd expect in a frame shop, you need a router, whatever bits you'll need for the profile you want, a saber saw, and an oval mat cutter.
First cut out a matboard template on your oval cutter. If the oval cutter isn't large enough you'll need to do the string and two nails bit. There are router jigs for cutting ovals but I don't think they'll have any more capacity than a full size oval mat cutter. The template will be the size of the width of the frame, the width of the moulding if the frame were rectangular.
Next lay the matboard template on a sheet of 1/4" plywood and trace a duplicate on the plywood. Cut out this duplicate with the saber saw and set it aside.
Now you have to make a polygon that will enclose the template. I like to make at least an octagon for strength. Rip lengths of your raw wood about twice as wide as the frame moulding will be and cut them at the proper angles and join. Sounds easy, doesn't it?
After the polygon has set up, hot glue (you could use extra sticky double sided tape) the template to the polygon's face.
Roughly cut the outside of the frame from the polygon following the template.
Drill a couple of holes into the waste part of the polygon (the part outside of the template)
and fasten the template/polygon securely to the top of a work bench putting screws through those holes you drilled.
Now you need to get out the router. Use a good straight cutting bit with a top mounted bearing. The bit will have to be longer than the frame material is thick. Set the router so that the bit just kisses the top of the work bench. Let the router's base rest and ride along the top of the template, the bearing guiding on the 1/4" plywood template and go around the frame. Now you have a nice, smooth outside cut.
Now use the profile bit with a bottom mounted bearing that will guide along the bottom part of the frame and cut the profile.
Unscrew the frame and template and rough cut the inside of the oval with the saber saw. Clamp the frame down to your bench somehow and clean up the rough cut with your router the same way you did the outside. You might as well put in a rabbit bit with a bearing to cut the rabbit now.
Sand and finish. Is there enough money in the world to pay for this? Of course a CNC router would make thinga a little easier but not much.
Warren
First cut out a matboard template on your oval cutter. If the oval cutter isn't large enough you'll need to do the string and two nails bit. There are router jigs for cutting ovals but I don't think they'll have any more capacity than a full size oval mat cutter. The template will be the size of the width of the frame, the width of the moulding if the frame were rectangular.
Next lay the matboard template on a sheet of 1/4" plywood and trace a duplicate on the plywood. Cut out this duplicate with the saber saw and set it aside.
Now you have to make a polygon that will enclose the template. I like to make at least an octagon for strength. Rip lengths of your raw wood about twice as wide as the frame moulding will be and cut them at the proper angles and join. Sounds easy, doesn't it?
After the polygon has set up, hot glue (you could use extra sticky double sided tape) the template to the polygon's face.
Roughly cut the outside of the frame from the polygon following the template.
Drill a couple of holes into the waste part of the polygon (the part outside of the template)
and fasten the template/polygon securely to the top of a work bench putting screws through those holes you drilled.
Now you need to get out the router. Use a good straight cutting bit with a top mounted bearing. The bit will have to be longer than the frame material is thick. Set the router so that the bit just kisses the top of the work bench. Let the router's base rest and ride along the top of the template, the bearing guiding on the 1/4" plywood template and go around the frame. Now you have a nice, smooth outside cut.
Now use the profile bit with a bottom mounted bearing that will guide along the bottom part of the frame and cut the profile.
Unscrew the frame and template and rough cut the inside of the oval with the saber saw. Clamp the frame down to your bench somehow and clean up the rough cut with your router the same way you did the outside. You might as well put in a rabbit bit with a bearing to cut the rabbit now.
Sand and finish. Is there enough money in the world to pay for this? Of course a CNC router would make thinga a little easier but not much.
Warren
AWG
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hi Joe:
Because of the work involved (as Warren so well described) we use a local woodworking shop for these projects.
We couldn't justify the time and expense, charged at our shop rate to do these thngs in-house.
I don't know the specifics of what you're doing, but I think that InLine Ovals will do custom sizes and finishes on some of their profiles. You might check them out.
Tony
Because of the work involved (as Warren so well described) we use a local woodworking shop for these projects.
We couldn't justify the time and expense, charged at our shop rate to do these thngs in-house.
I don't know the specifics of what you're doing, but I think that InLine Ovals will do custom sizes and finishes on some of their profiles. You might check them out.
Tony
Joe Dellert CPF
Grumbler
Thanks Warren you confirmed my thoughts on how to go about banging one of these frames together.
I am thinking that I might use MDF instead of an octagon since I will be painting and gilding the frame But it is a weight issue. As far as expense goes I did try Abe munn for a quote and found there was more money in it for me if I did the work myself Youch were they pricey. I could not locate another outsource for the oval frame raw or finished, In line doesn't do them that large. The size I am shooting for is 48 X 30 mirror in a 3" frame. This definately not a money maker but it is a chance to play with my power tools and that I like. Oh by the way we need to also put compo ornaments on the four points so if anyone can sugest a source for those beauties that would be great.
I am thinking that I might use MDF instead of an octagon since I will be painting and gilding the frame But it is a weight issue. As far as expense goes I did try Abe munn for a quote and found there was more money in it for me if I did the work myself Youch were they pricey. I could not locate another outsource for the oval frame raw or finished, In line doesn't do them that large. The size I am shooting for is 48 X 30 mirror in a 3" frame. This definately not a money maker but it is a chance to play with my power tools and that I like. Oh by the way we need to also put compo ornaments on the four points so if anyone can sugest a source for those beauties that would be great.
Warren Tucker
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
MDF isn't a bad choice; a 4x8 3/4" sheet of it will be heavy. At 3" it should be strong enough. The main problem with MDF is it's **** on tooling, even carbide. You'll still need a template. See if you can get a shop with a CNC router to cut one; heck for matter, se if they'll do the whole job. Why make a template if you can start with the 3/4 MDF? If they make the blank, you can do the profile and rabbit.
Warren
Warren
North Framer
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
First mention of a CNC router on the grumble goes to Warren. Anyone out there have one or has experience using one? Its on my dream list. Incredible machines!
Whynot
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joe,
You are taking off on a very tough raid of which you know very little, if grumblers' input is of relevance to you.
If learning is your ultimate goal, there is no better lesson you can pick than that. But challenging jobs are rarely making you enough money to justify the effort.
I'm guessing that you will be struggling with wood joinery and template accuracy. Then, how do you plan to feed the work in as to avoid costly errors due to inherent jerking and trepidations?
Again, I might be wrong but, from what you are asking the grumblers for, I've got the feeling that not only a reliable compo (ornament) source is what you are missing, but compo mechanics lessons as well. If so, you are in for a very long learning process and you need reliable instructors all the way. What if grumblers begin to contrariate you with their advices? Which one would you trust over the other?
Man, I make oval frames for a living and I benefit from a highly qualified and largely inexpensive labor force, which gives me a sharp edge over my competitors. Yet my prices are not accessible to everybody. Having said that, let me ask you what an oval frame do you think you are going to make and how much do you pay yourself, if you take the chance to do it yourself and still hope to be doing a profitable job?
I don't say making a large oval frame in house is an impossible task. If you know what you are doing, if you have what it takes in terms of tools, machineries, materials and time, a large oval frame can be made in house but, at equal quality output, you stay no chance to undercut Munn's price, much less InLine Ovals'.
Good luck and keep us posted with your progress. I wish you prove me wrong.
[ 08-29-2003, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
You are taking off on a very tough raid of which you know very little, if grumblers' input is of relevance to you.
If learning is your ultimate goal, there is no better lesson you can pick than that. But challenging jobs are rarely making you enough money to justify the effort.
I'm guessing that you will be struggling with wood joinery and template accuracy. Then, how do you plan to feed the work in as to avoid costly errors due to inherent jerking and trepidations?
Again, I might be wrong but, from what you are asking the grumblers for, I've got the feeling that not only a reliable compo (ornament) source is what you are missing, but compo mechanics lessons as well. If so, you are in for a very long learning process and you need reliable instructors all the way. What if grumblers begin to contrariate you with their advices? Which one would you trust over the other?
Man, I make oval frames for a living and I benefit from a highly qualified and largely inexpensive labor force, which gives me a sharp edge over my competitors. Yet my prices are not accessible to everybody. Having said that, let me ask you what an oval frame do you think you are going to make and how much do you pay yourself, if you take the chance to do it yourself and still hope to be doing a profitable job?
I don't say making a large oval frame in house is an impossible task. If you know what you are doing, if you have what it takes in terms of tools, machineries, materials and time, a large oval frame can be made in house but, at equal quality output, you stay no chance to undercut Munn's price, much less InLine Ovals'.
Good luck and keep us posted with your progress. I wish you prove me wrong.
[ 08-29-2003, 04:24 AM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
It doesn't seem fair that you would even consider charging the same price as a Munn frame if you have to ask about compo ornaments. If you really have a customer willing to pay that much, then get the Munn.
Cutting the wood in an oval to use as a base is the easy part. Are you planning to leave the face flat rather than a softly rounded perfectly smooth face? Have you done any gilding on uninished stock?
Cornel couldn't be more correct in his advice to you. I didn't look at your profile. Do you have a retail shop? If so, there are a lot of things you can do to be more profitable, and this isn't one of them.
Cutting the wood in an oval to use as a base is the easy part. Are you planning to leave the face flat rather than a softly rounded perfectly smooth face? Have you done any gilding on uninished stock?
Cornel couldn't be more correct in his advice to you. I didn't look at your profile. Do you have a retail shop? If so, there are a lot of things you can do to be more profitable, and this isn't one of them.
Joe Dellert CPF
Grumbler
Well Don't I feel much reproved. Yes i am a retail store but i Have a full wood shop as an asset that I am trying to leverage. I also employ
Six framers with an average of ten years + in the industry and some with all the expertise for the compo and finishing necessary. The tenure of this advice sounds alot like how dare you talk. how dare I even be in small business of any kind. There is making money and thenthere is making a living. A quirky project is always a nice asside to the routine of the four squares and send backs of manufacturing defects. The latest from my customer is that she doesn't have the money but I'll gear up for a sample to get the juice anyway.
Warren thanks for the advice.
Six framers with an average of ten years + in the industry and some with all the expertise for the compo and finishing necessary. The tenure of this advice sounds alot like how dare you talk. how dare I even be in small business of any kind. There is making money and thenthere is making a living. A quirky project is always a nice asside to the routine of the four squares and send backs of manufacturing defects. The latest from my customer is that she doesn't have the money but I'll gear up for a sample to get the juice anyway.
Warren thanks for the advice.
Framing Goddess
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Hey Cornel, isn't this the kind of thing you could do for Joe?
Why don't you give him a price that'll make him forget that he even wanted to try it himself?
Joe, if you do end up doing this yourself, please take photos every step of the way. I'd love to see how it is done. Even though I don't intend to do this kind of work, I like knowing how it is done.
edie the thismustbeovalmonth goddess
P.S. Joe, how's it going? Did you renovate yet? Just bein' nosy, is all...
Why don't you give him a price that'll make him forget that he even wanted to try it himself?
Joe, if you do end up doing this yourself, please take photos every step of the way. I'd love to see how it is done. Even though I don't intend to do this kind of work, I like knowing how it is done.
edie the thismustbeovalmonth goddess
P.S. Joe, how's it going? Did you renovate yet? Just bein' nosy, is all...
Some things are worth doing just to see how they're done.
I made a few acrylic boxes for customers with pieces of Acrylite OP-3 that were accumulating. It was an interesting process and they turned out fine (well, two-out-of-three did,) but I don't think Lois Bauby has much to fear from me. I doubt I'll ever make another one.
Good luck, Joe. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
I made a few acrylic boxes for customers with pieces of Acrylite OP-3 that were accumulating. It was an interesting process and they turned out fine (well, two-out-of-three did,) but I don't think Lois Bauby has much to fear from me. I doubt I'll ever make another one.
Good luck, Joe. Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Whynot
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joe,
Please don't get nervous. The way you initially put it sounded as if you assets were not much more than yourself and little experience, but wanted to have a large oval frame made in house.
If you have a full woodworking shop and you are employing six framers, some of whom have all the expertise for the compo and finishing necessary, then you certainly are misrepresenting yourself and in a better position to teach the grumblers, not to ask for their advice, for most of them are retailers, not frame manufacturers.
If you managed to be producing those ovals significantly less expensive than Munn's, without placing yourself out of business in the process, some grumblers might one day become your clients.
What I can tell you for sure is this: I'm having my facilities overseas exactly because I would not be able to decisively and continuously beat Munn's price (based on half of a century long, large and deep assets) for comparable or superior quality handcrafted frames. In all honesty, as a frame manufacturer myself, I'm telling you all that Munn is not expensive but right-priced. There are many frame makers the same way there are Yugos, Fiats, Renaults and Fords, not only Rolls, Ferraris or Maseratis, and each one lives according to his horizons, possibilities and aspirations.
Over the years, quite a few of those who worked for Munn went into their own business, yet none compares to Munn, despite their acquired knowledge, list of clients, stolen moulds, material and workers. Their quality was never right and some priced themselves out of business too.
[ 08-29-2003, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
Please don't get nervous. The way you initially put it sounded as if you assets were not much more than yourself and little experience, but wanted to have a large oval frame made in house.
If you have a full woodworking shop and you are employing six framers, some of whom have all the expertise for the compo and finishing necessary, then you certainly are misrepresenting yourself and in a better position to teach the grumblers, not to ask for their advice, for most of them are retailers, not frame manufacturers.
If you managed to be producing those ovals significantly less expensive than Munn's, without placing yourself out of business in the process, some grumblers might one day become your clients.
What I can tell you for sure is this: I'm having my facilities overseas exactly because I would not be able to decisively and continuously beat Munn's price (based on half of a century long, large and deep assets) for comparable or superior quality handcrafted frames. In all honesty, as a frame manufacturer myself, I'm telling you all that Munn is not expensive but right-priced. There are many frame makers the same way there are Yugos, Fiats, Renaults and Fords, not only Rolls, Ferraris or Maseratis, and each one lives according to his horizons, possibilities and aspirations.
Over the years, quite a few of those who worked for Munn went into their own business, yet none compares to Munn, despite their acquired knowledge, list of clients, stolen moulds, material and workers. Their quality was never right and some priced themselves out of business too.
[ 08-29-2003, 02:32 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
DGBuck
True Grumbler
North,
Shhhh! Don't tell anyone about these fabulous machines!
The way I see it, these will be the next great machines that will revolutionize the framing industry in much the same way the CMC has.
The creative possibillities with a CNC router are truly astounding. I attended the ISA show earlier this year in Vegas just to research these machines and see if it was something worth investing in for my shop. I was amazed! How have these things flown under the radar for so long?
I'll be getting a ShopBot in about 2 months!
Shhhh! Don't tell anyone about these fabulous machines!
The way I see it, these will be the next great machines that will revolutionize the framing industry in much the same way the CMC has.The creative possibillities with a CNC router are truly astounding. I attended the ISA show earlier this year in Vegas just to research these machines and see if it was something worth investing in for my shop. I was amazed! How have these things flown under the radar for so long?
I'll be getting a ShopBot in about 2 months!
Joe Dellert CPF
Grumbler
North et Al
Let me begin by appologizing for a terse response to a reality check on your part it is a long time since I lived on the East coast. If we all look back in the grumble I posted a question on oval frames and sources for them the only suggestion I got was Munn and In-line. I have since consulted decor source and other oval makers to no avail. The nice people at Munn in intital conversations told me that I would be charged around 1200 for the task. I passed along in foramtion to my client. Then I sent the photo supplied by the client to Munn for a more accurate quote. they helpfully got back to me with quote of $4500 as the base. This lovely quote set me on the irrational quest for the in house oval frame. Surely at a cost of such size there is room to learn and give the customer what they want. But I was perhaps coy with you when asking for compo sources since already had Bomar but I wanted to hear what others were using. Finally how about it North can I contact your company for quote and why does everyone call you Cornell? As long as we are talking about tools I just recently saw a simple tool called the Magic Moulder that fits into a table saw and cost all of $300. While not apporpriate for this project it seem like a nice tool for inhouse small moulding manufacturing. Has anyone tried this tool or seen it. As it stands now I going to use my Wizard to cut a pattern that I will transfer to masonite and then set up a jig to span the oval as I shape the cove. This thread is being very helpful.
Let me begin by appologizing for a terse response to a reality check on your part it is a long time since I lived on the East coast. If we all look back in the grumble I posted a question on oval frames and sources for them the only suggestion I got was Munn and In-line. I have since consulted decor source and other oval makers to no avail. The nice people at Munn in intital conversations told me that I would be charged around 1200 for the task. I passed along in foramtion to my client. Then I sent the photo supplied by the client to Munn for a more accurate quote. they helpfully got back to me with quote of $4500 as the base. This lovely quote set me on the irrational quest for the in house oval frame. Surely at a cost of such size there is room to learn and give the customer what they want. But I was perhaps coy with you when asking for compo sources since already had Bomar but I wanted to hear what others were using. Finally how about it North can I contact your company for quote and why does everyone call you Cornell? As long as we are talking about tools I just recently saw a simple tool called the Magic Moulder that fits into a table saw and cost all of $300. While not apporpriate for this project it seem like a nice tool for inhouse small moulding manufacturing. Has anyone tried this tool or seen it. As it stands now I going to use my Wizard to cut a pattern that I will transfer to masonite and then set up a jig to span the oval as I shape the cove. This thread is being very helpful.
(I believe North Framer and Cornel are two different people) I couldn't link to North Framer's site through his profile, but Cornel's number is on his website, which is at the bottom of his posts.
You will be talking to an old-world master, if you call Cornel, in my opinion!
He may not be able, or have the time to do the work for you, but I feel sure he'll be helpful.
PS: Cornel uses 'American Choice' as his screen name.
You will be talking to an old-world master, if you call Cornel, in my opinion!
He may not be able, or have the time to do the work for you, but I feel sure he'll be helpful.
PS: Cornel uses 'American Choice' as his screen name.
Joe, my take on your post was the same as Cornel's. I just wouldn't, in good conscience, be able to charge the same as Munn would. There is no way I could make a frame look as good as they do, and I've had lots of gilding classes, and applied lots of compo. It is exhausting to think of the number of hours it would take for one person to finish a frame that size.
You can get compo at Bomar in Chicago. They advertise in the trades.
[ 08-31-2003, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: jframe ]
Whynot
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joe,
My name is Cornel. North is somebody else, further up North from where I live.
I may sound, at times, like I'm advocating for Munn's product, but I'm just using Munn’s well recognized name as to refer to a certain frame-making professional level and quality, which in their case used to be even higher than it is today.
I am not surprised with the quotes that you've got from Munn. The catalog price per foot is just the puppy in the window. Compo corner leaves and stripes come as extras and you pay a price for each. There is a minimum footage/oversize and different finish charges to be taken into account as well. If you insist on a certain (unavailable) ornamentation and profile the future frame must be, the manufacturer must tool up before starting the job and a significantly high cost is to be added to the price, regardless how good or bad that frame design is.
Munn is marvelously equipped to give you historically legitimate frame reproductions and, if the historical accuracy is of prevailing importance to you, there is no better source that I can recommend than Munn. You may find somebody able to top Munn's quality and price for one specific type of frame, but not all across the board, because only Munn has been well located and well connected for fifty years now (reliable too) as to become a frame academy. It must have seen, touched studied and copied all the best original frames an opulent and refined New York (and the entire North-East coast) had acquired in centuries.
Having said this, I admire your determination for making a large oval frame in house and take the opportunity to point a few milestones that you need to consider and solve before you get there, if you are to stay a chance to end up not losing big money with this project and still go back to have it done by Munn.
1. A large oval frame is made of many more than the four pieces of wood a small oval frame must be made of. Proper clamping system and slow to set glue is a must.
The larger and more pieces you get, the harder to join them together and the more critical accuracy is.
2. The slightest inaccuracy compounds many times over with parts’ number and their size. Professional tools and machineries along with qualified woodworkers is a must.
3. In all coastal cities wooden objects suffer greatly with seasonal humidity changes. Properly dried and chosen wood is a must if future warping and joint failures is to be avoided.
4. Trepidations and uneven feeding of the work in are likely to ruin the job. Light, less powerful portable machines and improvised fixtures are to be avoided.
5. A thick coat of gesso is required, but wet gesso tends to feed water into the wood and joints are put in danger even before seasonal humidity level changes are to be taken into consideration.
6. Sending and profiling gesso is not pleasant nor an easy job to do. Bad edges and poorly sanded panels show up worst after gilding.
7. Commercially available compo is of miserable quality. Commercially available compo ornaments have little to do with frame-making. Most are just decorations conceived in the poorest taste possible, that type old provincial ladies would enjoy at Christmas time.
There must be a good explanation why InLine Oval frames look and cost as they do and why Munn’s is not concerned with their "papier machee tuxedo like" competition.
Other than these, making a wooden oval frames is an easy, fun, good money making machine.
[ 08-31-2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
My name is Cornel. North is somebody else, further up North from where I live.
I may sound, at times, like I'm advocating for Munn's product, but I'm just using Munn’s well recognized name as to refer to a certain frame-making professional level and quality, which in their case used to be even higher than it is today.
I am not surprised with the quotes that you've got from Munn. The catalog price per foot is just the puppy in the window. Compo corner leaves and stripes come as extras and you pay a price for each. There is a minimum footage/oversize and different finish charges to be taken into account as well. If you insist on a certain (unavailable) ornamentation and profile the future frame must be, the manufacturer must tool up before starting the job and a significantly high cost is to be added to the price, regardless how good or bad that frame design is.
Munn is marvelously equipped to give you historically legitimate frame reproductions and, if the historical accuracy is of prevailing importance to you, there is no better source that I can recommend than Munn. You may find somebody able to top Munn's quality and price for one specific type of frame, but not all across the board, because only Munn has been well located and well connected for fifty years now (reliable too) as to become a frame academy. It must have seen, touched studied and copied all the best original frames an opulent and refined New York (and the entire North-East coast) had acquired in centuries.
Having said this, I admire your determination for making a large oval frame in house and take the opportunity to point a few milestones that you need to consider and solve before you get there, if you are to stay a chance to end up not losing big money with this project and still go back to have it done by Munn.
1. A large oval frame is made of many more than the four pieces of wood a small oval frame must be made of. Proper clamping system and slow to set glue is a must.
The larger and more pieces you get, the harder to join them together and the more critical accuracy is.
2. The slightest inaccuracy compounds many times over with parts’ number and their size. Professional tools and machineries along with qualified woodworkers is a must.
3. In all coastal cities wooden objects suffer greatly with seasonal humidity changes. Properly dried and chosen wood is a must if future warping and joint failures is to be avoided.
4. Trepidations and uneven feeding of the work in are likely to ruin the job. Light, less powerful portable machines and improvised fixtures are to be avoided.
5. A thick coat of gesso is required, but wet gesso tends to feed water into the wood and joints are put in danger even before seasonal humidity level changes are to be taken into consideration.
6. Sending and profiling gesso is not pleasant nor an easy job to do. Bad edges and poorly sanded panels show up worst after gilding.
7. Commercially available compo is of miserable quality. Commercially available compo ornaments have little to do with frame-making. Most are just decorations conceived in the poorest taste possible, that type old provincial ladies would enjoy at Christmas time.
There must be a good explanation why InLine Oval frames look and cost as they do and why Munn’s is not concerned with their "papier machee tuxedo like" competition.
Other than these, making a wooden oval frames is an easy, fun, good money making machine.
[ 08-31-2003, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
I like your sense of humor, Cornel. Do you know what industry the commercial compo ornaments were made for, and if you do, would you tell us about it?
Thanks for posting the list of things to consider when making an oval frame.
Whynot
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Jo,
Don't get me wrong. I was not born wise and frame history educated. I still remember those days when I was getting excited over such compo ornaments… In fact I was excited by the money ring of it, because back then and there, more than now and here, provincial old ladies were paying good money for all sorts of briz-briz type of frames I could come up with
Many of those ornaments were originally meant for funeral and religious products and environments, for mantels, cornices, commercial grade frames, folding screens, wall ornamentation of a distant age in which people were madly in loved with all sorts of decorative items.
Today, if I look up Bomar's catalog, I hardly find some ornaments suitable for any known period frame reproductions. Though some people may disagree with me, I have my doubts that more than mediocre class clientele would ever fall for "gulas framing" (good looking frames using ready made ornaments by Bomar). Let’s put it like this: I am sure that Jake Munn has no idea where his copy of Bomar catalog is
[ 08-31-2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
Don't get me wrong. I was not born wise and frame history educated. I still remember those days when I was getting excited over such compo ornaments… In fact I was excited by the money ring of it, because back then and there, more than now and here, provincial old ladies were paying good money for all sorts of briz-briz type of frames I could come up with
Many of those ornaments were originally meant for funeral and religious products and environments, for mantels, cornices, commercial grade frames, folding screens, wall ornamentation of a distant age in which people were madly in loved with all sorts of decorative items.
Today, if I look up Bomar's catalog, I hardly find some ornaments suitable for any known period frame reproductions. Though some people may disagree with me, I have my doubts that more than mediocre class clientele would ever fall for "gulas framing" (good looking frames using ready made ornaments by Bomar). Let’s put it like this: I am sure that Jake Munn has no idea where his copy of Bomar catalog is
[ 08-31-2003, 08:58 PM: Message edited by: American Choice ]
Ah ha! Another connection between funeral homes and frame shops. I knew a company like Bomar couldn't get by on frame shops alone. Thanks for the info, Cornel.
North Framer
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Finally how about it North can I contact your company for quote and why does everyone call you Cornell?
I don't know how the connection between Cornell and I was made - I am not a moulding wholesaler/manufacturer (we do make the occasional few mouldings in-house as experiments in vertical integration). My web-site is down right now as we are rebuilding it to be much more effective than the previous ArtAffairs template design (very limiting for our needs). We're also located in Canada. The reference to a CNC router was made as I also have a love for woodworking. Hope this clears up any confusion. Regards, Steve.
I don't know how the connection between Cornell and I was made - I am not a moulding wholesaler/manufacturer (we do make the occasional few mouldings in-house as experiments in vertical integration). My web-site is down right now as we are rebuilding it to be much more effective than the previous ArtAffairs template design (very limiting for our needs). We're also located in Canada. The reference to a CNC router was made as I also have a love for woodworking. Hope this clears up any confusion. Regards, Steve.
Joe Dellert CPF
Grumbler
My appologies for mixing up people. My client has told me that she does not want the frame so that ends that. But I may still mock one up for the future. Thank you all for your input.