OSHA Dictates Frame Size?

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MerpsMom

MerpsMom

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Leawood, Kansas USA
I need a bunch of 5 x 7s and LJ just told me they can't cut anything smaller than 6 x 6 because of OSHA. Others can. Are the latter flouting the rules?
 
No, the rules are dependant on the size of your company. Smaller companies don't have to worry so much.
 
I was told the same thing. I may just be cynical, but I suspect that 6 x 6 rule has more to do with the minimum spacing of a double miter saw than with OSHA.

Can anyone who uses a double miter saw confirm or debunk my belief?
 
It has to be OSHA. The rules used to be 5 inches and they changed it to 6 inches a few years ago. When I worked for Michael's they had the same rules imposed on them.

Cathie, can you order the 6 inch rails and have somebody else size them down?
 
My Brevetti's stops don't go smaller than 8". Anything smaller than that has to be hand held.

The Phaedra can be rigged to do smaller cuts, but it's hand clamping again.

My guess is that big companies just don't want to take the risk...really can't blame them.
 
Even if you could get 5 by 7's cut you're still paying for 4' of moulding. I'm bothered more by the 4' minimum than I am by the 6" minimum!
 
OSHA as far as I can see only makes reference to a “Safe Distance from the Blade” I cannot see any reference to a prescribed distance………that said an employer would have a duty of care to ensure a safe practice is in place……….how close would you let your hand get to a saw blade!!!!.......there may also be an issue in how close the moulding clamp can get to the blade…..

http://www.osha.gov/SLTC/etools/machineguarding/saws/miter_saws.html
 
If you need a buncha 5 x 7s sounds like you could use photoframes anyway. Lotsa good ones out there and might be less money than ordering chops or length moulding and attempting to do it yourself.

Or am I missing something here???
 
In order to cut less than 6 inches on our saw, your fingers are where you really don't want them to be.

If it's something that can't be done on the chopper (like a metal) it can't be done.

Those are our rules (could be OSHA's too). It's just common sense.
 
I was cutting 3" x 4" on an industrial pistorious and everything was going great. I have worked with all kinds of big kick butt machined and usually don't mind much. (that is when trouble starts)

Zipping along the chops and then BANG, one of the rails I was cutting got sucked up into the blade housing and was spit out in nasty big chunks of wood raining down on my hand.

After a moment of shock and pain I started to realise what happened. It stung like a female dog for about an hour. After a while feeling came back and I gratefully walked away with a new respect for the machine.

BTW I knew a woman (no sexist comment intended, she just happened to be female) who cut off her finger with an UNDERPINNER. The moulding went up on an angle and pinched it off between the pad and edge of the moulding.

Weird stuff.
 
I think the claim "OSHA says we can't cut anything smaller than X" is the result of a particular situation.

If you have automatic hold downs that will hold the piece right next to the blade there's no reason OSHA wouldn't inspect and approve of cutting 1 x 1s.

Anything really short we cut on the chopper.
 
um...I'm talkin' to myself. "Idiot woman, if they don't want to cut it, why do you?"

Actually ordered it 6 x 7 and will use a clamp. I've done it in the past: just forgot it's a PITA. Answer to the photo frame sub is that this client just luv-ed this particular frame, and she's a very good customer, so...I put my fingers in jeopardy to please her. (Only in retrospect, I guess.)

I'll be careful.
 
I do work for an artist who paints miniatures and I've done some 3"x4" frames for her. I have a Frame Square miter saw which can clamp the moulding and my hands don't get anywhere near the blade. I might even be able to get smaller, but I never tried.
 
OK, enough about the smallest size you are willing to chop, now how about going into detail about How you cut that small!

Do you overcut the moulding then move the guide bar in and use the cut-off end, or do you have a guide bar extender so that you can cut 3" shorties.

I've tried both, ie cutting 10 sticks at 12" then cutting those sticks @ 9 3/4 to get the 2" cutoff, ad finitem until I get too small a piece to work with. But I also have a 3" stick that I use to butt the moulding against so that I can set the moulding against. Easier on the math this way but tougher on the fingers.

What tricks have others tried to get teeny tiny mouldings cut. (1 by 1's for my daughter's doll house)
 
Bob, for those tiny 1x1s, you're going to want a sander anyway.

The Morse or Jyden has a long measuring tongue that will go all the way to just before being chopped.

So chop the starter end, measure with a ruler on the standing inner wall of the frame the 1" + allowance... [with OSHA that would be 5"] then stick in the chopper.

Run the stick in until the line is just fully on the table in the mitre gap, and set your fence gage.

VERY SLOWLY ease the blades down to the moulding, and secure with your fingers in safe position.

The secret is tiny nibble cuts which move the moulding around the least. Plan on the cutting to take four times longer than an 8x10. And don't leave any blood that may upset your daughter.
 
I just checked my Frame Square and the smallest I would do with that would be 2". Any smaller and the clamp doesn't grab enough of the moulding for me to feel safe with it. Otherwise, Bob, I would do the exact same thing to cut a 2" as I do for a 20". I clamp the moulding and make the first miter cut on the left arm of the saw, then slide it through to the adjustable stop for the size I'm making. Then make another cut. This gives you the rough size for your first piece and makes the first miter cut on the next piece. Then I take that rough size piece and transfer it to the right arm of the saw and set it against the stop and clamp it and make the final miter cut.

If I needed to make 1x1's, I'd have to do that on my Morso I guess. And be EXTREMELY careful if I didn't want to have a new nickname of 'Stubby'!
 
We'll do 5" rail but that's it. Dermot's research is right on and on a 14" Pistorius the choppers are not real comfortable getting any closer. (Even with the safety features in place.)

I'll check but I don't think the clamp hold downs will get close enough on our saws to go smaller and to be honest when we get requests for small frames it's usually in good quantity but no one is willing to pay for the time to foot chop them.

Our metal saw is computerized and on a screw that controls the length. 5" is the minimum because the saw operator must reach between the blades to grab the cut rail. Any less and you may have a few digits missing.
 
John do you have a Saw Scientific? Think that is the name, it is a double miter saw on a sliding rail? Just wondering, I used to use one of those back in a former life
Patrick Leeland
 
My neighbor is a carpenter that I get to do stuff for my shop. He is make a set of drawers to hold my moulding sample overflow (should just toss them out!)

While cutting the aluminum angle iron he's using for shelf supports the saw grabbed the metal and twisted it out of his hands! Looks like it almost did a full twist around the blade!

Scary as **** to look at the twisted aluminum! AND if he had been cutting shorts he definitely would have lost his hand, part of his arm and oh yeah, his livelihood! So, thanks OSHA for at least trying to protect us from ourselves. I'll give up the 3 by 3 metal frames if that'll let me hold my fork at the dinner table! ;)
 
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