Oils behind Glass

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Skippy the Bush Kangaroo

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
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Oils need to breath, thats what I am told, but even if you place it under glass it is not in a vacumm. Is there any reason why you can't place an oil behind glass? And what about Acrylics? And does it differ whether they are painted on canvas, paper, MDF, saw blades, or any other medium? Or is all this a snob factor because oils are textured and you need to experience the texture?
I am hoping one of our resident gurus can share their thoughts

Thanks in advance again
 
The possible problem with putting an oil painting behind glass is that the oil may still be outgassing, and fumes will accumulate on the inside of the glass.

As long as the glass is not in direct contact with the painting, this is not a preservataion problem, just an appearance problem.
 
OzDave keep in mind that oils will take maybe a year to "harden" no matter what they are painted on. When I see an oil behind glass I ask myself if the painting is still wet? & the the glass is to protect it from damage. Many acylics are behind glass & it's considered normal texture or not. It's probably that oils have always been in an open frame, personaly I feel oils need texture & the texture needs to be seen

David
 
Of the last 6 museum shows I have been to, 5 had glazing on all of the oils.

The 6th didn't have frames... so we know that I discounted it and walked into the other room where the Rodan was... great frame..hmmmm can't remember if there was any glass in that great frame. Wonderful cartushes with strapping that would make your daddy cry. :D
 
More museums seem to be using glass. We noticed this quite a bit in London, where not only were they glassed during the Victorian era, but now more of the works seem to have "Museum Glass", which really does not detract.

I just unframed an oil painting from 1932, and there was a note on the back (to the framer) to use glass. Whether for protection or appearance I don't know, but the painting actually looks much better under the glass, so back it will go.
 
Museums use glass or acrylic covers over paintings due to the danger of vandalism. Its an effective way to keep blades and spray paints away from the art.

For the OP, there was a huge discussion about glazing oil paintings 2 or 3 months back.
John
 
Paintings do not have to "breathe", that is a myth. There is no technical reason NOT to glaze a painting, no matter what the medium or the support. And as others have noted, the air gap is essential.

Glazing provides protection from airborne contaminants and mechanical damage such as accidents and vandalism. But the most fundamental reason to glaze anything is to close up the frame package, to insulate from fast ambient changes such as temperature and humidity.

Visibility is no longer the issue it once was. Museum Glass used in conjunction with proper lighting is nearly invisible and transmits 98% of available light/image.

Owners need to consider whether a few years of perfect visibility is worth sacrificing the longevity of the art. And "a few years" is the right phrase to use here; discoloration and other free-air-related damage might show up in less than a decade.

How many more of the "Old Masters" paintings would still exist today if Museum Glass had been available then? Nearly all paintings over 100 years old have suffered damage and many of them have been restored multiple times. But every restoration takes a toll; it would have been better to protect the painting from deterioration in the first place.

In art, an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.
 
Dave et al;
try reading :http://www.thegrumble.com/cgibin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=001346,Or just doing a search on "Glazing Oils."

It is amazing to me how many topics like this get discussed repeatedly by members of TFG that have been around for some time, only to be informed by other long time members of the informations that some of the accepted authorities have given an opinion on several times in the past.

The previously listed thread is 5 years old and there are more and some include post by Hugh Phibbs and Rebecca and others who have conservator knowledge.Yet we continue to doubt the correct of the BREATHING premiss ( we even had a thread of myths that are commonly accepted in the industry).
BUDDY
 
Yes, some things just never die.

In addition to the good points raised by Jim in this thread, I would like to add:

PAINTINGS DO NOT BREATHE

Please, please, put a solid backing behind the painting as part of the fitting process. And please please put a dustcover on it. And do not put "breathing holes" in the dustcover.

It will provide protection to the rear against punctures and other mechanical damage, as well as insects and dust. And just make everything look better.

Also, oil paint does not really "dry" the way we normally think of. The solvents/carriers evaporate fairly quickly. The curing process is what takes a while, but during this process the paint is forming chemical bonds. During this period ofgassing is minimal.
 
I agree with glazing older oils. I like putting the glass between the frame and the liner and just leave the dust cover off for out-gassing. I recommend this to people who smoke in thier homes or in a office area where a cleaning service is used. Don't want the merry maids hitting an original piece of artwork with Windex.
 
Originally posted by Jim Miller:
How many more of the "Old Masters" paintings would still exist today if Museum Glass had been available then? Nearly all paintings over 100 years old have suffered damage and many of them have been restored multiple times. But every restoration takes a toll; it would have been better to protect the painting from deterioration in the first place.

In art, an ounce of prevention is worth a ton of cure.
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Actually Jim, not many. Over the years we have lost more "Masters" to theft than to deterioration.

I love it when people trot out the same old observances, and Jim, I'm not picking on you... it's just that glass for UV, and vandlism wasn't the cure.
The "cure" hasn't been found yet, but we are getting better....
Better air quality, humidity, tempature control etc.
Better knowledge through understanding what we did before and the results years later.
Better understanding about how the buildings that house art live and breath, and how that affects the art.

Better understanding and education of restore, concerve, and preserve.

It's kind of like the 48 different classes you take that have 'nothing' to do with our major, but all of it together makes you educated.
 
...just leave the dust cover off for out-gassing.
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*sigh*

A solid backing board behind a canvas will protect the canvas from puctures caused by careless handling or storage. Just think of the lady who leans her freshly-framed painting against a chair while she is putting the hook in the wall, only to find that it slipped and the arm left a nice dent in it. Or it's stored in an attic and that old bike falls on it. Or somebody hides a key behind it.

A dust cover will protect the back of the canvas from dust which, over time, can actually abrade the fibers of the canvas, weakening it. Dust also can hold moisture, creating a nice environment for mold and mildew. The back of an open canvas, with all its nooks and crannies is a great place for spiders and other bugs to set up home. Putting ventilation holes in a dust cover only serves to provide a great entrance.

Finally, a backing/dust cover will protect the canvas by lessening the "whoomph" effect. Imagine a framed canvas hanging on a wall, and somone opens the door to the room. The small but rapid change in air pressure causes the canvas to wiggle a bit. We're talking about a tiny effect, but one which will take a toll over the years.

Please put a backing and dust cover on works on canvas.

Oh, and one more thing. While I was at a hotel in St. Louis I noticed something odd about a painting hanging in the lobby. I looked at it closer, then from an angle. Plain as day, in mirror image, was the word LOBBY across the painting. Someone had used a pen (probably) to note its location on the back of the canvas. And its mate next to it had something written on its back as well. A backing would have prevented this.
 
Originally posted by FramerDave:
Yes, some things just never die.

Also, oil paint does not really "dry" the way we normally think of. The solvents/carriers evaporate fairly quickly. The curing process is what takes a while, but during this process the paint is forming chemical bonds. During this period ofgassing is minimal.
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Oil paints harden by oxidation the solvents are gone with in say a month

Personaly I seal all the backs of any oils I frame to keep out dust & vermin also to prevent mechanical damage

If the paint is good quality the light fastness should be around 150 years with minimal fading under average lighting. So glass is mainly to protect from mecanical things as well, UV protection might stretch the light fastness to say 300 years

It's just a personal thing but I feel an oil looks wrong behind glass—love the texture to be evident & out there. I have read of a formula for how deep the set back/size ratio in the frame should be to provide a degree of protection. This is the reason oils normally where framed with deeply profiled mouldings.

"The customer is always right" & so gets glass if they want glass.

David
 
Thanks for all the info,

The reason why I asked was that a customer came in with an oil and told me the artist said it had to breath and couldn't be put behind glass. So as I didn't believe what she said I thought i would ask here for a better responce. Of which I got.

Maybe the whole thing dates back to the days when glass was first being used (invented).
Thanks again Dave.
 
Dave ;
I am going to put my size 10.5 D in my mouth ( since I have very little real Fine Art knowledge and I haven't followed my own advise about doing a search). But I think I rememeber it all going back to the days of the old masters when they mixed their own paint .I don't mean just adding pigmentation but all the components. If this wasn't done in the right propostions it could take longer to cure than one that was properly forumulated. Also if you add to that the fact that in today's techknowology different chemicals can increase even the best formulations ability to dry and cure than you can easily see that what once was true is no longer. However some of the uncertanty could have been caused by not knowing what formula was used so it was best to assume the longest time possible.

Also we now have a lot more enviromental polutants to consider and a wide range of atmospheric conditions which can lead to the growth of mold as well as great nesting places for insects of all types.And this doesn't even mention the mishandling of uninformed owners and even FRAMERS,as well as spectators.

But then I am only repeating what someone else has alredy said and taught me ( or as best i remember it) and I am sure some of the true Art Historians or Conservators can correct any mistakes I have made. Or maybe a search of the archives will save them the trouble.LOL
BUDDY
 
Actually Jim, not many. Over the years we have lost more "Masters" to theft than to deterioration...
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Baer, you lost me there. Are you saying theft destroyed the paintings? Stolen paintings presumably still exist or existed long after they were stolen. The benefit of proper glazing and fitting would still be the same, whether the painting hangs in an art museum or in some covert collector's hidden gallery.

Assuming that thieves might handle artworks roughly or at least improperly, then proper glazing and fitting would help to protect against hazards that become even more likely with theft.
 
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