Odd giclee request...

[jim_p]

I got the following in my email this morning:

Hello,

I am in the process of establishing on line art gallery and looking into selecting a printer to work with. I saw your information on line and am interested in learning more about your program. At your earliest convenience, could you provide the information requested below?

For 8 x 10 and 11 x 14 archival pigment prints:

•Set up fees for printing digital art vs. scanned art? Other fees?
•Cost of proofs? Size of proofs?
•Can each piece be produced upon request or are there minimum lot sizes? Quantity discounts?
•Can limited editions be hand-numbered by someone other than artist?
•How is process for obtaining artists’ signature handled?
•Do you permit artist supervision?
•Certificate of authenticity? COA cost?
•Packaging and shipping to client? Cost?
•Model and type of scanner used?
•Model and type of printer used?
•Type of RIP software used?
•Price points for AC paper? Product specifications including inkjet receptive coating, color-gamut, dot precision/gain, and longevity for each.
•Product specifications for ink types used.
•Print resolution?
•Can you use the brand, 28MT Décor Art Paper?

Thanks very much for your assistance. I look forward to hearing from you.

At first this looked like a legitimate request, but reading down and seeing the requests for technical details, I'm not so sure. It alsmost looks as though they're trying to pick my brain so as to set up their OWN printing operation. Also, note the generic nature of the request ("I saw your information online", without mentioning anything specific about me).

This feels "off" somehow... thoughts?

 

[framah]

My own thoughts here are that I wouldn't want to work with someone who is asking questions that are so technical as to not be relevant to the customer needs.

Why would anyone care what RIP is being used?
Product specs for the inks? Archival pigment inks...all they need to know.
The one about the artists signature makes me think they would want you to sign and number them as well as print them and then ship them to their customer.
I do not permit artist supervision. There is no way I want anyone hovering over my shoulder while I work. That plus, I am usually doing other things as well as printing..framing comes to mind.

I agree that they seem to be wanting to have you do all of the work setting up their business and of course, they won't be paying you for your time responding with all of that info.

If I got that email, I would delete it and go on with my business. Better they annoy the H*** out of someone else....or you could tell them that that info is available for a fee of $300 which is redeemable towards any actual work you do for them.

 

[more_so]

They forgot to ask for your credit card numbers, date of birth, social security number, gender, mother's maiden name, city of birth, and ATM PIN number.

Or it could be even worse than somebody just trying to pick your brain. It could be somebody who doesn't know jack about the business trying to set one up anyway and inviting you to share in their painful learning experience and ultimate failure. Stay away.

 

[Ylva]

Jim,
I would maybe send an email back; requesting more information from their side; if you feel it could be legitimate.

I remember some time back (could be last year, maybe the year before) when I posted something about an artist requesting a price for 10 pieces. Most reactions here were; stay away, scam, and so on. (and understandable)

However this artist turned out to be legit and has ordered quite a lot from me since. But that first request was phrased terribly....

So, I wouldn't disregard it right away. But I would thread carefully. See if you can find out more first.
How did they find you? Where are they located? Could they come in and meet with you?

At first sight, this seems iffy. But you never know.....

 

[MaJa]

I agree with Ylva.

At first I read it and expect it to be signed by a minister / pastor. I use to get a lot of those, like prices on 1000 t-shirts or banners, etc.

The person writing the email may not now how to ask what they need to know, they might be a PIA, they maybe a waste of time or they might be the ticket to your retirement, lol.

Is there a phone number? I would usually rather have a root canal then call some one on the phone, but I think actually talking to the person would be very helpful in this case. You could get a feel for who they are and what they want.

I often ask the question "What are you trying to do?" The answer usually makes life so much easier, if they'll give it to you. Sometimes you have to drag it out.

If there is no phone number, I would email them back and invite them to come see you or call you. Maybe suggest a "personal consultation" before or after hours.

Good luck, hope it's not a waste or a PIA but the start of a great working relationship.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

I would maybe send an email back; requesting more information from their side; if you feel it could be legitimate.

I got the exact same email word for word. I promptly deleted it.

It came to my address that is on my website. Not the one that is on my biz cards and/or given to customers, suppliers or friends.

I had a similar request not long ago for volume framing. After many emails and phone calls the people wanted 36 x 48 canvas prints framed for $150. Printing, framing, boxing to be shipped, all in.

It sounds like the same time waister that one was.

 

[diyframer]

Why would anyone care what RIP is being used?
Product specs for the inks? Archival pigment inks...all they need to know.

Because some RIPs allow for linearization and customized ink limits per-channel, and some don't? And changing this will have a huge impact on the quality of the output?

Because the artist wants to know the ink used, as it is regularly listed as part of the description of the piece and/or on the COA?

There are fine reasons to ask these questions, that someone without a lot of art print experience might not understand.

I don't want to sound harsh, but any printer that won't answer:

- RIP
- Color management
- Inkset / hardware
- Resolution per paper type
- Papers supported
- Finishing options

is pretty much just hitting 'print' through the canned vendor driver like 90% of the rest of the business. Not that there's anything wrong with that, for most applications.

Now if you don't want to work with people that ask those questions, that's fine, but suggesting that nobody needs to know this information is not accurate.

 

[Jerry Ervin]

Now if you don't want to work with people that ask those questions, that's fine, but suggesting that nobody needs to know this information is not accurate.

I disagree.

If the person is that knowledgeable or that picky, why are they not doing the work themselves?

Like I said, I got that exact email word for word.

How often do you get a customer that ask what kind of blades you use, what kind of saw you have, how many units can you do in a day, and do you buy moulding by the chop, box or foot?

99% of the time if something smells fishy, there is Cod nearby.

 

[diyframer]

I disagree.

If the person is that knowledgeable or that picky, why are they not doing the work themselves?

Like I said, I got that exact email word for word.

How often do you get a customer that ask what kind of blades you use, what kind of saw you have, how many units can you do in a day, and do you buy moulding by the chop, box or foot?

99% of the time if something smells fishy, there is Cod nearby.

This email looks fishy, but how often do you get a customer who asks you what manufacturer's glass and model you use, what hinging you will use, what backing and support you'll use, whether or not you'll tape the rabbet, and what you use as a dustcover?

The questions I listed are in that same category, for printing. There are plenty of valid reasons to ask about ink, profiles, RIPs, papers, resolution, hardware, etc. I disagree with broad statements like "all they need to know" It's the same thing as telling your customer that the frame is composite, with plexi and rag mat and expecting them to have no further need for information.

A more correct statement might have been "this email is generic and wants too much detail, it should be avoided" rather than suggesting that these questions are not valid for anyone to ask.

 

[GPoe]

I disagree.

If the person is that knowledgeable or that picky, why are they not doing the work themselves?

Like I said, I got that exact email word for word.

How often do you get a customer that ask what kind of blades you use, what kind of saw you have, how many units can you do in a day, and do you buy moulding by the chop, box or foot?

99% of the time if something smells fishy, there is Cod nearby.

Just because an inquiry is from someone with knowledge and possibly experience, doesn't necessarily mean the inquiry is bogus. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. He/she could be someone who did there homework REALLY well - or used to work in the printing industry but doesn't anymore - maybe they cannot afford the thousands of dollars to purchase the required equipment.... I could go on....

If a former framer had to have some framing done and they didn't have the equipment anymore, yes... in fact they MAY ask those questions....

As far as using the e-mail listed on your website goes, I do so much research on the internet - not in person. That may be all this person had (after all, they said they were starting an "internet" gallery) and why they sent the same e-mail to many people. Isn't that the point of internet business??? They send you a digital file, you print it and send it out.... Doesn't have to be done face to face anymore.

I agree with Yiva also - maybe an e-mail asking direct questions to find out the legitimacy might be in order. Although all this being said - ultimately.... go with your gut.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

I don't want to sound harsh, but any printer that won't answer:

- RIP
- Color management
- Inkset / hardware
- Resolution per paper type
- Papers supported
- Finishing options

Any artist or photographer asking these questions has preferences already. It would take 10,000 pages of reply to answer all of the variables.

I reveived the same inquiry indirectly through a business I provide printing for just this past week.

 

[diyframer]

Any artist or photographer asking these questions has preferences already. It would take 10,000 pages of reply to answer all of the variables.

I reveived the same inquiry indirectly through a business I provide printing for just this past week.

Someone is definitely out there rattling doors from the sound of that e-mail, but 10,000 pages is a bit of hyperbole.

Let's try:

- Printers: Epson 4880, Epson 9900
- Color Management: Custom profiles (available for soft proofing)
- Inkset: Ultrachrome K3/Vivid, Ultrachrome HDR, Cone Piezo (Contact for custom black-and-white piezo printing)
- RIPs: Studioprint 14, Imageprint 8, Qimage
- Resolution: 2880x1440, 1440x1440
- Papers: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, Museum Etching, Photo Rag Baryta, Photo Rag Pearl, Monet Canvas
- Finishing Options: Golden Acrylic (aqueous) or MSA Varnish, available in gloss, luster, and matte. Call for mounting options.
- Set-up fees: Free for print-ready art in .PSD, .TIFF, or .JPG format, $100/hr for custom set-up, color correction, sizing and file conversion. 1 hour minimum.
- Proofs: Unlimited, free proofs with any print run of 50 or more. $10 per proof for smaller runs, with shipping. Proofs are full size.
- Minimum lot size: None. Quantity discounts negotiated by print run.
- Hand-numbering: No.
- Signature: Provide a digital signature as part of the print-ready art.
- COA: Custom set-up fees apply. Printer will supply a template for the artist to fill in. Holographic serial number included. $5 per certificate.
- Packaging and shipping available. Cost determined by actual shipping.
- Scanner: ICG 360, 12,000 DPI. $100 per scan.
- •Can you use the brand, 28MT Décor Art Paper? No
- •Do you permit artist supervision? Sure, come on down!
- •Price points for AC paper? Product specifications including inkjet receptive coating, color-gamut, dot precision/gain, and longevity for each. All product specifications are available at www.hahnemuhle.com. Prints are priced per-print, not per square meter.

I'm going to have a hard time getting the other 9,999 pages out And that's more than the e-mail asked for.

I don't know, maybe there's valuable business secrets in there somewhere?

 

[Rhonda in MT]

I would probably reply to some of the questions but urge the sender to give me more info about exactly what they want and to please come in because we like to deal personally with are large format customers.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

- Resolution: 2880x1440, 1440x1440
- Papers: Hahnemuhle Photo Rag, Museum Etching, Photo Rag Baryta, Photo Rag Pearl, Monet Canvas
- Finishing Options: Golden Acrylic (aqueous) or MSA Varnish, available in gloss, luster, and matte. Call for mounting options.

You seem to be quite limited in your POSSIBLE combinations of papers, laminates and resolutions. My two Epsons will print on a huge variety of papers and canvas. Laminates as well as sprays can be used from numerous manufacturers and I have even had people ask if I can print at low resolutions to save on ink costs.

Like I say the possible mathematical combinations are mind boggling. I guess the Nigerians have gone from requesting Shinny Gold frames to printing requests. I taught identity theft and fraud courses for several years and if this person sending the e-mail is legit they learned their writing style from the Nigerian letters they received over the years.

 

[diyframer]

You seem to be quite limited in your POSSIBLE combinations of papers, laminates and resolutions. My two Epsons will print on a huge variety of papers and canvas. Laminates as well as sprays can be used from numerous manufacturers and I have even had people ask if I can print at low resolutions to save on ink costs.

Like I say the possible mathematical combinations are mind boggling. I guess the Nigerians have gone from requesting Shinny Gold frames to printing requests. I taught identity theft and fraud courses for several years and if this person sending the e-mail is legit they learned their writing style from the Nigerian letters they received over the years.

One man's limitation is another man's specialization

Seriously though, are you going to cook up a set of custom profiles for any possible paper your Epson will eat? At every possible output rez? For anything other than D50 reference illumination? With a 24-hour drydown between each iteration of patch printing and measurement? I can't possibly imagine the time required for that would be worth it for anything but a major print run.

 

[shannon.mcdonald@wallacks]

I agree, something does seem a bit odd. However, they may have been sourcing a supplier for quite some time and in the process learned all of these terms and details... you never know.

I would suggest getting a bit more information about them to know what their individual needs are and suggesting they come in to meet with you. You might also consider offering to provide them with a printed samples of your work.

 

[TSF]

I didn't pull out my atlas to compare locations but it looks like 3 east coast framer/printers received the same request from someone who admittedly says that they are in the process of starting an internet business. Could it be that they are going after some sort of government funding to start that business and need excessive details and a minimum of 3 quotes to satisfy bureaucratic requirements?
Ask some questions and offer some guidance to help them. They could turn out to be a major client and if not all you have spent is a little of your time.

 

[Jeff Rodier]

One was west coast.

 

[jim_p]

Well, here's the response I sent, to which I have not yet received a reply, probably because I did not roll over and say YES! to every request and give every detail of my process:

I am in the process of establishing on line art gallery and looking into selecting a printer to work with. I saw your information on line and am interested in learning more about your program. At your earliest convenience, could you provide the information requested below?

For 8 x 10 and 11 x 14 archival pigment prints:

•Set up fees for printing digital art vs. scanned art? Other fees?

We do not charge a set-up fee for printing from customer-supplied digital files. If we need to scan the artwork, the price depends on the size of the original, approximately $10 per square foot.

•Cost of proofs? Size of proofs?

The first proof is free, additional proofs are $5 each. Proofs are sized to fit 8.5"x11" paper

•Can each piece be produced upon request or are there minimum lot sizes? Quantity discounts?

Pieces can be produced on demand, but there is a discount for ordering multiple copies at the same time. Depending on media, an 11x14 print can range in price from $11-$22. There is a 20% discount for ordering 2-4 copies at once, 30% for 5 or more.

•Can limited editions be hand-numbered by someone other than artist?
•How is process for obtaining artists’ signature handled?

We do not get involved in signing and numbering prints; this is to be done by the artist.

•Do you permit artist supervision?

Generally, no. We are happy to show the artist our equipment and process, but we prefer to do the actual work on our own schedule.

•Certificate of authenticity? COA cost?

We can supply COAs with tamper-proof holographic labels for $5 each.

•Packaging and shipping to client? Cost?

This depends on whether we are shipping individual prints to clients or shipping bulk prints to a supplier/retailer. Are you envisioning a drop-shipping arrangement?

•Model and type of scanner used?
•Model and type of printer used?
•Type of RIP software used?
•Price points for AC paper? Product specifications including inkjet receptive coating, color-gamut, dot precision/gain, and longevity for each.
•Product specifications for ink types used.
•Print resolution?

Is there a reason why you are asking these detailed technical questions? I can tell you that we use a HP Z3100 printer with Vivera inks that have been tested to at least 100-year archival longevity when properly cared for.

•Can you use the brand, 28MT Décor Art Paper?

This is not a brand we normally use, but we are open to accommodating special requests.