NY Show ... Is It Still Breathing?

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FramingFool

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We just got back late Friday night from NY .... if there was ever an argument for moving it outta the Javits, this show is it.
As I recall, the first year for it there occupied both floors ... this year, a small fragment of the one floor (with MANY unoccupied stalls) was all there was .... With the exception of a dozen or so smaller vendors, only the big companies were there ... LJ, Roma, Decor, Fletcher, Crescent, Bainbridge/Nurre, etc. ... There was actually more art represented than frame stuff. Even United was absent. In fact, the list of those not there was a lot more telling than the list of those that were.

I could be wrong, but Friday morning I think I saw tumbleweed rolling down the aisles.

I just don't see any reason to make that miserable trip to NY unless the whole thing moves to a location that would allow vendor participation again.

Any comments?
 
The good news is it's moving to Las Vegas next . . . . . oops. Sorry. Thats PPFA. :D

It was getting talked up at Vegas last year.. and someone whos been around almost as long as I have, made the muttered comment "I give it two years".

I guess we'll know next year. I've got $2 riding on a third year.
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There are just some cities that are no longer viable to hold conventions in. Orlando is also one of them.. almost an 1-1/2 hours to get through security. And as long as they keep expanding Disney, it will only get worse.
 
Framingfool...you beat me to the post. I went to NY yesterday and it was what I expected, maybe a little worse. It is on rapid decline!
For me it was very productive and I have ne regrets. Still worth my $87 train ticket. I did and saw everything I needed to accomplish. My presence was important as a new shop owner and not an employee. Plus I received a great demonstration from Brian Wolf on the Intergrated Framer that I know will be in my shops future.
I probably won't go next year and I may do Atlanta and would rather do Vegas.
If I only can afford to travel to one show then I will just do Vegas. So strap yourselves in on the west coast
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I'm giving you 10 months to prepare!
Pat at Attach-EZ was wonderful. It was a pleasure to meet her, and gave a great demo. I love the product more now than I did before. I couldn't believe how many framers in the time I ws there confessed to not having read the directions for the product. Oh thats why I'm breaking needles LOL.
P.S. Baer she spoke very highly of you!! ;)
All in all it was a shame to see the changes and I missed seeing several vendors I always like to give my annual hugs to. I told you I am very huggable.

New York is not the show it use to be!!!
 
OK then, I was planning to go on Sunday, now I guess I will just sleep in!

Too bad about Orlando though, I was hoping to go there next time.

So it will be only Vegas?? Why not!! Just let them have one BIG show where everybody must attend or miss out.
 
Paul..definitely sleep in. On another note. I forced myself to go through Art Expo. Years ago I use to enjoy it. Now I only could appreciate a hand full of items. Someone please tell me...Am I getting old? I was never so unimpressed. And I am sorry Jane Seymour is still adorable, but my suggestion is stick to acting!

But please tell am I getting old, am I not appreciating something I should be???
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Very interesting and timely.

I was hoping that there would be some feedback from the show as I have been thinking about "possibly" setting up a booth for my work next year. Unfortunately there was no way I could go as a visitor this year. I thought the costs of booth rental were very high, but if it were in NY city, I assumed it might be possible to swing it.

There is a show up here (AFEX), which is also appears to be on the decline. This year, they are moving it from Toronto Ontario, to Niagara Falls, NY, which is only 15 minutes away from me, but I'm not convinced it would be a good investment for a vendor, based on what I've seen over the last couple of years.

Let me ask the collective wisdom out there, what is a good show, from an art vendor's point of view?

Thanks.
 
Thanks for the advice Steph, my weary bones (and snow-shoveling-aching back) will thank you! I was hoping to buy some art too.

That's too bad, last year's show was really good and VERY full. It seemed everybody was there.

And yes, Jane Seymour, Tony Curtis, et al should really stick to acting. Why is every actor now into painting??
 
I went Friday as well. Man, what a dissapointment. I expected it to be smaller than in the past, but WOW! I have seen more vendors at a PPFA meeting.......

We worked hard to stay until 3:00. There was just nothing great to see. (well with very few exceptions, i.e. AttachEZ was cool, Lifesaver's new PowerPay service and the cheezy Marylin Monroe impersonator) The vendors that were there were the ones you usualy see and hear from anyway. So all in all, not realy worth the trip.

Did have a great night in the city though....OOOOOOOOOO now that was fun.
 
Hey Paul-Just for clarification, the Orlando show mentioned is the PMA/PPFA show (of which PPFA is a small, but important part). It rotates every two years between Vegas and Orlando. The next two years will be Vegas and then back to Orlando for two. Many members travel from Europe and Asia (the larger PMA part) and it is designed to help those travels a sit i san international event

Every year WCAF shows in Vegas in Jan and that show just keps getting better and better. Education is top flight

The biggest problem is that next year both PPFA/PMA and WCAF will be in Vegas usually within weeks of each other. Most framers don't understand that conflict, but remember the larger force is PMA. The photogs don't much care when WCAF is

These shows are planned years in advance
 
Actually, the PPFA/PMA will be in Las Vegas for the next three years. Switching every two was the plan but apparently 3 years in Vegas netted a better deal.
 
Agree about the Javitts show continous decline. We were looking for the Liebron woman at United....

We attended a small how on the Piers sponsored by Picture Framing Magazine this past October in NYC, perhaps this will grow.

In many cases, it is some of the smaller vendors from elsewhere in the country that we would like to see.

Dan
 
I hear the Atlanta show keeps shrinking too. Whazzupwidis? Maybe the industry's shrinking? Or participation shrinks? Or too many venues?
 
I received a phone call from my business partner who is in New York right now at the show and she mentioned the two classes she had attended so far were quite good-one with Vivian Kistler provided her with some great marketing ideas. She was calling from the trade show floor and mentioned it was quite large and she was seeing quite a few vendors. This is the second year we've attended the NY show. Maybe we don't have enough time invested to make a comparison.
Julia
 
Julia, I hope I wasn't too discouraging. I don't regret it at all, because I had so many specific things to acomplish. Which I did. But for anyone who has attended other trade shows or knows the history of this show its disappointing, and if I had to fly to this one or lived far enough away that I had to stay overnight its not worth it as it stands now.
I am holding out for Vegas as far as classes go! Hope your partner has a great and succesful time.
 
Everybody's shows are shrinking. The cost to present at them is enormous. The cost of updating your booth is also. My uncle is in an entirely different industry - markets software. When the economy is great he exhibits at over 10 shows a year and draws a business card to win a free copy of the software and a new computer to run it on. When times are leaner the drawing is for just the software, and he only goes to 6 shows.

He also says that with email, and web conferencing the shows are losing ground as a meaningful way to reach out to clients.
 
Also have to remember if a vendor does not go to the show then their reps will be by with it anyway. So spend $30,000 for a weekend (this is a low figure-trust me) or send a rep out to do their job? It is easier and easier now not to do the shows. Smaller attendance by vendors as well as framers make it hard for a company to make money. And after all eveyone expects a deal at the shows, this means you must sell more and more to break even. If a vendor broke even with an undertaking like this that would be pretty good considering

PL
 
Speaking of United, guess who had a booth at the PMA/PPFA convention in Orlando!
 
Meghan, Vegas is where you are wrong. Every year it has grown. This year it completely filled a three rooms; so it's topped out. Now for the education, rumor among those that know says that they may add another day or two of education and Mon-Wed.. end the classes earlier to allow plenty of floor time with the vendors who are really footing the bill and want face with the framers.

If you can imagine 5 days of education.... eyeee haw!

Steph, next year, if you get shy and don't slug your way throgh the crowds and give me a hug... I won't talk to you at the Chinese dinner. :D We're both huggables.
 
"...We attended a small how on the Piers sponsored by Picture Framing Magazine this past October in NYC,.."

That was not produced by Picture Framing Magazine. As I recall, the organizers were former associates of another publisher and this was their first effort.

Las Vegas WCAF is the show growing fastest, and it has been the leading education show forseveral years. .

Atlanta has had some difficulties, but it is still the largest show for exhibitors. Its growth may return.

I hope our indusrty can support at least three major trade shows, as well as the PPFA convention.

Some framers seem to think it's all up to the exhibitors and organizers, but that is not so. The success of any trade show depends mostly on the framers who attend and take advantage of the opportunities offered. Trouble is, too many framers are staying home.

High cost is said to be an issue, but that is relative - if the framers come, then the cost becomes a good investment. In Las Vegas the costs of exhibiting are similar to New York, but the framers are there, and the exhibitors are smiling. Everyone is enthusiastic about that situation.
 
The Lovely Blanche and I were at the show yesterday (Saturday). While meeting Jim Miller, John Raines, Pat from Attatch EZ and Brian Wolf was a pleasure, half the comanies I expeted to see weren't there.
In addition to that, there seems to be a quality or lack of it in the air at Javits that never fails to give me a sore throat.
Seeing you-know-who selling his M*********p at the M&M booth was an interesting experience to say the least, but TL Blanche thought it was funny how I made him squirm trying to be polite
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I don't know how, but we managed to make it to every booth in both DecorExpo and ArtExpo; and while we're both footsore and acheing, it was a fun experience.
I wish there had been enough Grumblers there to justify a dinner...I had a few great places in mind! We tried to get into Virgil's for their great Barbecue, but there was a one-hour wait to get in...guess if we HAD the Grumble dinner there, reservations would have been a must. We ended up next door at Viva Pancho, a nice and not-to-expensive Mexican place. The food was great, the Margaritas were killer, and TL Blanche managed to get me home somehow, so all-in-all it was a great day.
I'm going back again today for one more fast circuit to see who's there and try to unload a few more diamond glass cutters. If you see me, say hi!
 
Jim, you are entirely right. The attendance drives the vendors, not the other way around.

I just finished the March issue of PFM. The results are astounding. 3,500 attendees. 500 booths. And, yes, they are adding another day of education. I think I could actually picture the show being a Saturday to Friday event.

There were a lot of framers at Orlando this year. 70 classes. So maybe we might see some vendors who see a value of leaving their booths in Vegas for a month and showing at both WCAF and PPFA/PMA.

If that is the case, IMHO it would be nice for the "framing" vendors be down one row maybe near the middle. The photographers would stumble on it, but the framers would have to sort out the floor with all the extranious and flashy stuff [how many NASCAR cars do you think will be there in 2007?] :D
 
Originally posted by Baer Charlton:


Steph, next year, if you get shy and don't slug your way throgh the crowds and give me a hug... I won't talk to you at the Chinese dinner. :D We're both huggables.
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Awhhh Baer, of course I will. I find the best way to move through a crowd is to goose'em. The key is to grab them on the opposite side you're coming from. It confuses the crowd for a moment...but they usually like it ;)

Get yourself ready! I'ma coming
 
Steph,
Not discouraging at all; we will still attend NY, Atlanta and Vegas as we tout the fact that we attend three trade shows a year to keep up with the industry. It also allows us to get out of the shop ;) !
Seth, I have to ask, who is this mystery framer selling his M******p? Have I not had enough coffee this morning to comprehend?
Julia
 
I went to the NY show Sunday.

Compared to just a few years ago it was REALLY small.

I saw who I needed to but overall it was very disapointing.

Hopefully next show I will be attending will be in Florida or Vegas. (Depends on my bank account)

Even the vendors were crying the blues to me about how bad the response in the city has been.
 
As a footnote to my original post on this subject, I hafta admit that my overall perception was colored by more than just the show itself.

The other venues take advantage of the mere fact that they're not in NY. I know, I know, the usual NYC bashing .... but I grew up in NJ .... one could see the Empire State Building from my bedroom window (in winter, without leaves...)....so I'm no stranger to the overall hassle that is NY ... but the towing and ticket that our car got ($300 worth) doesn't endear us to the adventure .... fighting it looks promising, but it's still something I could have done without. And then there was the 3-4 hour traffic jam from the NJ Turnpike to PA when we left. Fortunately, the Clinton House in Clinton, NJ saved the day. Any of you travelers HAFTA stop there on your way home ... great food, drink, and vibes.

Anyway, I'll be grilling you all later about a worthy alternative to NY.
 
I went to the NYC show too and like everyone else was disappointed. I got most of what I needed taken care of but not everything. I had planned to pick up a sander but there was only one vendor selling them so I didn't feel like I was getting a "deal". I love going to the city and get to see a good friend of mine when I go so I'll have to make a separate trip on my own dime. The seminars I attended were excellent though and I learned a lot of new techniques.

I tried Atlanta this past year and wasn't all that impressed so next year, we'll be going to Vegas. It sounds like it's got a great turnout and the education is important to me when I go to the shows.
 
Originally posted by Julia:
Seth, I have to ask, who is this mystery framer selling his M******p? Have I not had enough coffee this morning to comprehend?
Julia
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He's a person who's product I endorsed both here and at trade shows. (Thinking about how to carefully word this) We parted company after several altercations both physical and verbal and I made a post on here that I would, from that point on, neither endorse, disparage nor mention the person nor his product. I always keep my word, and haven't mentioned him or the product since. If someone else wants to... ;)
 
Going into this show, the expectations from most vendors exhibiting was naturaly low. The NY show has been declining for more than 7 years, as the combined draw of Decor Expo Atlanta, WCAF - Las Vegas and now the PMAI-PPFA Convention has impacted attendance in New York.

The major vendors downsized - you could see that, but most still supported the show. Working in The Fletcher-Terry, I can share with you that we were suprized at the steady traffic!
It was absolutely busier than last year, despite the fact that other vendors reported lower attendance. We sold a lot of equipment and had people in our booth all the time. Selwyn's also shared with me that he had a better show than last year.


Originally posted by JbNormandog:
...Hopefully next show I will be attending will be in Florida or Vegas. (Depends on my bank account)...
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I think this statement illustrates part of the show situation today: Picture framer's really only need to visit one show every year or two. That feeling combined with a declining number of frame shops (500 losses per year), and it is bound to impact the shows.

Originally posted by Julia:
...Not discouraging at all; we will still attend NY, Atlanta and Vegas as we tout the fact that we attend three trade shows a year to keep up with the industry. It also allows us to get out of the shop !...
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Picture framers really only go to trade shows today for two primary reasons: 1) Education and 2) Socialization, as Julia just clearly identified. Of course when a framer needs a new major piece of equipment, this skews the logic, but this will occur periodically.

Originally posted by FramingFool:
...so I'm no stranger to the overall hassle that is NY ... but the towing and ticket that our car got ($300 worth) doesn't endear us to the adventure .... fighting it looks promising, but it's still something I could have done without. And then there was the 3-4 hour traffic jam from the NJ Turnpike to PA when we left. Fortunately, the Clinton House in Clinton, NJ saved the day. Any of you travelers HAFTA stop there on your way home ... great food, drink, and vibes...
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I'm always in awe of the positive potential within the human spirit!
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John
 
The Afex Show originally sched for Oct 2006 in Niagara NY has been cancelled. The big players LJ Bain, etc, just don't want to get involved in a Canadian Show. All the budgets went states side.
 
The New York Show - was a succes for the attending framers. It allowed them more time at each booth despite the fewer booths! All thrre days seemed good even compared to last year. Vegas and Atlanta still do rule when you count on guaranteed weather and cheaper hotels, meals etc.
 
It was, indeed, successful, if you gauge "success" by the ease of transit from one booth to another ... it was a ghost town... however, I, for one, would have liked to see a a few more of the vendors that I deal with.
 
There is one thing about NY that you can't get and that is Las Vegas.

On the other hand, if you go to Las Vegas, you can have Breakfast in Paris, Lunch in Venice, and dinner in New York. :D
 
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