Nurre Caxton

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SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
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Nurre Caxton

Customer service policy on a slipper slope?

First it was their policy that they will not send invoices to credit card customers. There are no beneficial terms to having an open account, so why bother with mailing a check? I guess enough clients complained, so they are now sending invoices to those CC clients that want them.

I just got off the phone asking why there is a $3 handling charge on every invoice? I guess it's kind of like LaMarche's $3 packing charge. I was able to get LaMarche to drop it for me. Now, this charge is in addition to their $3.50 surcharge for orders under $35.

I think this is a really stupid policy. It increases our costs outside of the normal mark up. If these companies need extra money, in my opinion they should just increase the base cost of their products.

A handling / packing charge, a minimum order charge on top of shipping charges is a bit too much for me.

Then to top it off, when I asked who my rep was, they said that I was assigned a work at home rep because I don't make their minimum annual order amount and they won't send a sales rep out.

Talk about frosting my pickle and an absurd policy.

Hmmm? No rep, no samples on my wall! And, maybe I will pull my Nielsen metals too.

Even the customer service person thought it was a ridiculous policy that will do more damage than good.

Give me a break!
 
I've been pretty vocal with a few of my reps. I wish they would raise the prices a little and forget these "xtra" charges. I have baked the FULL handling charge and packing charge and whatever into EVERY order. That means they are considerably higher retail than samples from vendors that don't do this.

This means, if I can sell enough to overcome the "xtra" charges I make more money (VERY RARE), but more often than not it means I sell LJ or something that would normally be a higher retail but isn't. You'd think they'd figure it out??


Also means, when I need wall space, the vendors with these "xtra" charges are the first considered for replacement.

Cliff

[ 10-14-2003, 02:21 PM: Message edited by: Cliff Wilson ]
 
Less,
Their policies are printed in their catalogs and evident before you placed your first order with them. Your pricing should accommodate fees that are imposed on you by the vendors. I don't think its terribly fair to complain about a company's policy post facto.
If you aren't selling enough of any one vendor to avoid minimum charges the option to remove them from the wall is always there.
I understand these charges and would rather have a surcharge on a small order than have an across the board price increase to compensate.
Remember: Less costs More, more or less (moraless?)
 
Is your Nurre rep different from your Nielsen/Bainbridge rep? If not, how do they know whether the volume of product you use justifies a visit from a live rep? Nearly all of us buy Nielsen and Bainbridge from a distributor.

I agree that miscellaneous surcharges added to your invoice are problematic.

Have you ever really studied your phone bill? For fun sometime, call them and ask what some of those fees are actually for. (Not the federally-mandated ones. They have no control over those.)
 
Cliff makes an excellent point - why not just raise the prices? What would we hear though, if a price change happened well in advance of the udate discs from the POS folks?

If $3.00 on every order across the board means that Nurre can provide health insurance and a 401k for the people that cut & wrap & ship our orders isn't that better than a price increase which might cost us one or two dollars on a single chop but would cost someone buying 300' of length over $60?
 
Less: When fuel really started to go up about two years ago, the manufacturer's would put a fuel surcharge on goods shipped to distributors because the trucking companies were charging them a fuel surcharge (not to mention natural gas prices and glass and surcharges). To counter this we put a fuel surcharge on every invoice of .75. We explained before we did this what it was for and that we hoped that fuel prices would stablize and we could drop the charge.

I had numerous customers complain about the charge. I had some customers leave us. I had many customers say I was nickle and diming (sic) them to death. Many told me, just raise your prices to cover these charges.

If I had raised the prices, while prices were actually going up, when the surcharges went away the price increase would not have. Today there is no fuel surcharge and prices are normal (what they should be). However, we now have to include a fuel surcharge statement in our price catalog incase this ever happens again.

I would rather pay the real price and figure in surcharges then have my prices artifically high all the time.

Packaging materials should be figured into the base cost. However I do know many companies do include this charge because they ship in special boxes or use special packaging for their goods. Once again, they are not artificially inflating the cost of their product.
 
A fuel surcharge is one thing. It's temporary and easily identified because it is one of your separable expenses.

"Handling" and "packing" fees ONLY on small orders are just penalties to small buyers. The handling and packing are being done by employees that have associated salary costs which should be baked into the prices. I find it offensive that I have to pay extra for having a small order. This is money the supplier would not get if all there orders were large "enough." I suppose you could argue they could lay some help off and cut costs, but I doubt that. (I would be interested to know just how much they take in in "handling charges" annually.)

On the other hand, I have no problem with a volume or quantity discount. I know this seems primarily semantics, but it's also a lot of "price management" and time that I need to spend "because I'm small." It's counter intuitive to me and feels punitive.

Cliff
 
Packing, shipping, COD charges and the like are just part of the deal. Yeah, they stink, but there's usually no way around them except to become bigger. None of these costs are hidden; if you're like us you rarely read those agreements closely. Like them or not, if we're offering a vendor's product we have to figure all associated costs into our markup.

Not to shill for anyone, but Nurre is one of our favorite lines; we have experienced great service from them. They've been with us longer than any of our other moulding lines. Once in a while they've gotten us out of a jam or let us do a quick job by offering next day shipping from the West Coast (I can order as late as 5p.m. our time and get it tomorrow IF I order from the CA warehouse). Of course the customer ALWAYS pays the next-day charges.

The thing is, these and other charges (insurance, utilities, payroll, advertising, etc)HAVE to factor into the cost of doing business. We operate a retail storefront and our prices are higher than they were when we ran a home-based shop. I CAN'T afford to do it that cheap anymore; in fact we just lost a would-be-nice commercial job because we couldn't (versus "wouldn't") match the price of a garage-based framer for the same work. Unfortunately he didn't have to figure in the costs of insurance, payroll, taxes, etc in his quote.

All those miscellaneous charges are a drag, but the fact is we have to pay 'em.

Tony

[ 10-14-2003, 08:34 PM: Message edited by: AWG ]
 
Like any customer, It's perception. I don't want to feel like being nickeled and dimmed to death. Why should I have to figure out what the true cost of getting the product to me by adding up this charge and that charge?

Plenty of vendors just give the one price and the shipping.

I don't mind paying a surcharge on small orders, but a blanket charge on every order is unnecessary and as Bob says, just round up or add 10 cents a foot, who is going to care?

Perception is everything.

And to tell me that I won't be visited by a rep is just plain ....well you chose a word.
 
This post brought to mind the frustration I experienced with a certain vendor. I couldn't figure out why my margin dropped when I ordered chops from this particular distributor. A little research revealed that I was pricing my chops with a standard UI chart. This distributor has his own UI chart - published in their newest catalog and different from the preceeding catalog. This UI chart over- stated the required footage by quite a large amount especially for the smaller frames. It would be helpful if there were certain things in our industry that were standardized at the wholesale level.

Mitch
 
mitch i know who you speak of...we use them to price orders so we dont lose money. if we cut a moulding from our inventory we use a second chart from another company. the second company is the correct UI chart. the first company is has THIER own UI chart. and they are one of the companies that push the industry. a bit odd that they are misrepresenting the footage needed to make a frame now isn't it?


d
 
Originally posted by John Richards:
Today there is no fuel surcharge and prices are normal (what they should be).
Click to expand...
Maybe you should tell UPS... they just went from 1.25% to 1.5%.

At least UPS has been somewhat "reasonable" in their surcharge. Some of the trucking companies charged as much as 7%, and that's on the Gross Rate, not the discounted rate. That equates to over 20% at our discount schedule. We're currently paying about 2.1% on gross (about 6.5% of net) for the Fuel Surcharge on LTL.

Originally posted by Lessafinger:
I don't mind paying a surcharge on small orders, but a blanket charge on every order is unnecessary
Click to expand...
We used to have a surcharge for small orders and nothing else. Now we have a flat "Order Processing Charge" regardLess of the size of the order, based on the logic (however flawed) that there are certain costs associated with every order, whether it's one 5 x 7 chop or 10,000 feet. I don't recall ever having anyone complain about it, only the UPS charges, which unfortunately we have no control over.

I will say, that if we had lots of complaints we'd do something different. BUT, we're going to get the $$$ one way or the other, same as you do from your clients, whether it's a PIA button for certain individuals, or a general increase, or whatever. Suppliers are in the same business as framers - making money.

Originally posted by wpfay:
Remember: Less costs More, more or less (moraless?)
Click to expand...
That pretty well sums it up.
 
David: You're right about UPS I just didn't think of mentioning it. Our surcharges have dropped but most of our deliveries come out of Chicago. I've recently heard the fuel prices in Chicago and on the rise again so there may be another round of surcharges.
 
I don't explain every little charge to my customers. I used to when I was uncomfortable with the price of framing. When I did, I was worried about explaining everything. I don't do it now unLess I'm asked.

I would just like to simplify the process. I would like just one price.

When I complained to LaMarche about their $3 per invoice charge, they dropped it. If they raised their moulding price a little, I would not have noticed, and everyone is happy.

We (framers) are constantly getting apologetic letters saying although we are trying to keep costs under control, we have to raise our prices anyway.

That's enough for me. I don't even look at them anymore.
 
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