novice framer

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parm rathaur

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
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4
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toronto
i need to buy a mat cutter for a framing business i'm starting from home. i will be assembling frames for now (no cutting). any comments on the phaedra chrono mat? any advice on mat cutters to consider or avoid?. ideally, i want a professional one that is solid and will last.
also, i'm in toronto,canada. any reccommendations on one stop shop for equipment/tools?
thx novice nervous and excited
 
Welcome to The Grumble.

Like soft drinks and cream filled cupcakes, most framers have a brand loyalty and, with few exceptions, have not used more than one or two in their life time.

I have been using a C&H for more than twenty years. Fletcher, I am told, makes a fine machine, too. Logan is more iffy, I think.

Other framers in Ontario may be able to steer you towards a distributor who may have several on display. I would suggest you find one and ask if you can play with various models. A good distributor would be able to show you what features would apply to your needs.

But, in any event, don’t rely exclusively on price. If you look for cheap, you’ll get cheap.
 
Before buying a 60" Fletcher 2000 several years ago, I used a Carithers machine, which is the same technology as C&H. For "feel" of the cutting motion, I like the brass head/chrome bar assembly of the Carithers/C&H design. Fletcher is easier to maintain and more durable.

I have not used a Phaedra Chronomat cutter, but at the trade shows it looks like a great machine. I have heard it described as "the Rolls-Royce of matcutters", and presume it has a Rolls-Royce price, as well.

If Chronomat is the Rolls-Royce, then Logan may be the Yugo of matcutters, economical machines suitable for light duty. That may be great for a photographer or artist cutting one mat a day, but I suggest buying a sturdier machine for professional use.

If you don't want the Yugo or the Rolls-Royce, I suggest going with a Chevy or a Ford...Fletcher or C&H. That's what I did, and I'd do it the same way again. With their extensive distribution network, Fletcher has the competitive edge for availability, price, parts & service.

One more thought: Buy a 60" matcutter if you plan to do all kinds of framing. 48" machines are smaller, less costly, and less useful.
 
Ooooh, the phaedra is wonderful!

I just got one a few months ago, and up until that time I had seldom ever cut a mat without marking it first. After getting the phaedra, I have NOT marked one at all (until I did a multi opening the other day.) The stops work wonderfully, the cutter is great, and it is one of the best decisions I've made in a loooong time!

Pricing - in Jim's analogy - more along the Chevy lines...
 
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I have a 60" Phaedra and as advertised you can cut perfect mats right out of the box. Used it exclusively for 1 1/2years and then got my wizard, now use it for bevel accents and strip cutting. Price is same range as a fletcher, I think the smaller one start at around $799. as I have seen them in Decor and PFM. If I had to do over again knowing I would get a CMC in a short time I would go with the smaller Phaedra (can do 95% of work load )and then move into a CMC keeping the Phaedra for backups and other projects.
 
Altos

If you are starting - I would buy a Altos 4505 or a 4590. I have used the 4505 for many years at home before a retail store location. It s cheaper, very durable, just as fast, has a wider bevel (looks better in my opinion) can cut any length of mat easily (I'm talking any length - 10 ft if you want) does a fine job once you get a hang of it, Is quicker than setting stops on a typical manual machine with stops - cuts up to 8" borders, and has a smaller footprint - highly recomended) I now use a Fletcher 2000 and am happy with it as well, but sometimes wish I still had the other.

Here is their website

http://www.altosezmat.com/products/4505_cutter/4505_cutter.htm

and no - I don't have any connections other than having met Mr Alto - nicest old gentleman there is
 
HB said:
Is quicker than setting stops on a typical manual machine with stops
Click to expand...

I cut 2 (two) 3-D, double-bevel 21x24 mats (with different colors) in 15 minutes the other night. I would challenge ANYBODY to do that, that quickly without stops.

I was dead set against stops until I used this machine. (Phaedra)

I gave about $1000 for it with all the bells and whistles.

Best decision I've made in a long time.
 
humbled by the response

thanks for all the replies, and so quick! i'm going to persue the ph.chronomat. and will post my review of it to you all.(thx about the alto info, too!)
 
My father taught me to buy the best tool as soon as I needed it once. Otherwise, I would have wasted the money on the cheaper tool when I upgrade to the better tool I should have gotten in the first place. I have found this to be sound advice...
 
Just once I'd like to read, "I bought the ABC matcutter and it was a HUGE mistake. I should've bought the XYZ matcutter."

Everybody loves the one they have, with the notable exception of a particular computerized matcutter.
 
Ok Ron, I'll bite...

I bought the Logan 301 18 years ago, I immediately needed something more.

Next I bought the Logan 750, and used it for about 5 years and needed something more.

Then, Logan was making a "super-duper" matcutter, one that was a step above even the 650. The cost was nearly $1000 (in 1995.) I was just getting ready to invest in that when they discontinued it. So I bought the 650.

These were the "pre-grumble" days, so I had nothing but my own research to go on. While I won't go so far as to say it was a "HUGE mistake" - but it was a minor mistake. Buying a Phaedra then would have put my business and framing abilities atleast 5 years down the road.
 
B. Newman said:
I cut 2 (two) 3-D, double-bevel 21x24 mats (with different colors) in 15 minutes the other night. I would challenge ANYBODY to do that, that quickly without stops.
Click to expand...

Betty

The altos cutter is not really without stops, it has visual stops - you don't have to draw lines - it really works quite well. I use stops too on my Fletcher. The point I was trying to make is , that it compares very well speed wise, to any manual cutter, and especially if you are using different size borders - its faster!

I've used them both.
 
That's good to know HB. I've not used an Alto, so I'm not knocking them, I just know how much I wish I'd purchased this matcutter in the beginning.

What's the saying, "Penny wise and pound foolish"? That's what I was for many years.
 
Novice

There's good advice here - get the best you can afford - if you think you will use it lots - spend the money & buy something like what Betty has - if you are not sure, and don't want to or can't spend the money - you will sacrifice a little by having the Altos - & it does take longer to learn - definitely. If you have too much time & not enough money, I recomend the Altos - otherwise spend another 700 - $900 & get a professional one.
 
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Hey There,

I am also relatively new at this and from the Toronto area. I thought I had it all figured out by doing my research and was going to get the Fletcher 2200 as it had the most said about it. Well...I took the Basic course at the International Picture Framers School Inc in Kingston (highly recommend as you will learn a lot and have fun). At the school we used C&H cutters which worked really well but they also had a Chronomat (which when I did find reviews of they were extremely favourable). I asked the instructor about the differences and in his experience the Chronomat combined the best of many of the mat cutters out there plus had the various bells and whistles included in the package (the squaring arm is ideal when cutting down larger mat board if you don't have money or space for the Fletcher 3000 wall cutter...sigh). One of the other people on the course had also done her research before the course and was sold on the product (which you can order through the school). Unluckily I haven't yet had much time to play (have another full time job and two toddlers) but I am liking so far and so is the other woman from Ottawa. Hope this helps...oh if you are interested the web site for the school (as I mentioned you can order the cutter through them) is

http://www.framingschool.com/

Cheers!
 
Las Vegas

I've been using the Logan 650 since I opened my shop 2 years ago.
Every 3-4 months I need to pull out the brochure to find out why the cutter suddenly starts acting weird. I already talked to the guys at where they make the Phaedra. I am going to Vegas in January to buy a new cutter. I am not sure if its going to be a Flercher, Phaedra, or what but manufacturers can send their deep discount coupon to here: molylepke@hotmail.com
Cheers.
 
Psssst....Ron, which one is that? I'm in the market....
 
Ron Eggers said:
Just once I'd like to read, "I bought the ABC matcutter and it was a HUGE mistake. I should've bought the XYZ matcutter."
Click to expand...

OK you got it,

I bought the keencut matcutter (60"), the keencut excalibur 5000 wall mounted cutter and the keencut oval 6.

Wish, esp after seeing John Raines' demo on all the Fletcher equivs that I'd bought Fletcher.

Was going to change the matcutter for a Fletcher but next upgrade will be a CMC and I think Valiani - that'll make all but the excalibur all but redundant and I'll put up with that - I know its annoying little faults now.
 
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