Non Conservation Waiver

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Ted

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Jan 20, 2002
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159
Loc
Woodstock, Ontario, Canada
I've noticed, recently, some posts referring to a waiver that customers sign when a piece is drymounted, or framed not using conservation mats, glass etc. I think this is a great idea and would like to incorporate one here.

Does anyone have a sample of a form they use that they could send me?

Also, what kind of response do you get from your customers? Does it push people into considering proper materials and metods? How legal is it?

Any info would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ted
 
Ted, we use the LifeSaver POS system in our shop. On the receipts it prints "I have been informed about conservation materials, and have declined to use them." Then the customer would sign on the line. I have to admit, though, I have not really used it. Since the bulk of everything I do in the shop is conservation, ie. acid-free matting, backing, etc. This really hasn't been an issue.

However, I did once have a customer who insisted that he wanted to drymount a large original Superman movie poster. It had been folded, was slightly yellowed, but overall was in generally good condition. After explaining that drymounting was not reversable, and that any value that the print might have now or in the future would be lost, he insisted that the creases would bother him, and that he had no intention of ever selling the print. I DID have him sign on the line.

As far as legality, I'm not a lawyer, but I would have to think that essentially the waiver is a contract, and as such, would be legally binding. Of course, the customer has the right to refuse to sign the waiver, but then, you also have the right to refuse to do the order.
 
There is (perhaps more than just) speculation that those waivers signed by customers are (almost) worthless. We are still knowingly doing some thing harmful to someone else's property. And we are professionals, we are supposed to know better. I would refuse to do it. It doesn't seem worth it to me to take risks like that. fwiw, edie the cya goddess
 
Originally posted by AndyPan:
............but I would have to think that essentially the waiver is a contract, and as such, would be legally binding.....
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Although we use a very similar statement on our invoices, my understanding is that this would not hold any water in a court of law!

The verbiage is not nearly complete enough to stand up in court. The second issue is that you would probably loose, as this information could be used against you, the framer. (The fact that as a professional, you knew better.)

....Of course, the customer has the right to refuse to sign the waiver, but then, you also have the right to refuse to do the order.
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And this is your judgement -- In many situations it might be better to refuse to do the work than to expose yourself to the liability.

John
 
Edie and John are absolutely correct. We had such a waiver until our attorney indicated that , in Az anyway, it was prima facie that you did know better and did it anyway.

The only value of such a disclaimer might be to give your client pause to reconsider. But there just is no substitute for common sense and knowledge. It's why they came to you in the first place.

Maybe instead of developing a better disclaimer, possibly it would be wiser to develop a better sales presentation. One makes more money; one can cost you more money
 
In California, a waiver would not relieve you of liability. The customer can sue on the grounds that you should have known better.

Framing to the current acceptable standards would provide help in a court, or at least that's what I understood from the attorney who spoke on a FACTS panel a few years ago in Vegs at the PFM show. (See FACTS is important....we just have to understand it and use it....and support it. A check for $30 would be much appreciated if you have not already sent one.) I am sorry, my fingers just typed that without me being able to stop them.

Nona Powers, CPF, GCF
www.nonapowers.com
 
I understand your points, and I am sure you are quite right about the waiver not being able to protect us. But then, in a society where people can sue fast food restaurants for gaining weight and win billions of dollars from tobacco companies, who or what DOES protect the little guy?
 
You know, the scariest part of all of this is that the artwork in question is probably going to be the pieces that were framed 10..15...20 years ago when we were less "educated" about proper conservation techniques.

Remember...there was a day when custom and conservation framing were two different things.

I agree with the posts that stated that most of us (me included) use conservation materials without a choice today. I'm just not comfortable turning someone away just because they want something to be drymounted because someone else will do it, but to cover ourselves we might not have any choice.

Ted
 
I guess that's as close as we'll ever get to a unanimous opinion. Disclaimers won't save us in court.

However, we can use them to convince clients that we are serious about not ruining their valuables. When I pull out my Official Disclaimer Form, it works almost every time. I advise the client to read it carefully, and excuse myself to the back room for a moment. When I come back to the design table, they're always ready to talk more about preservation. Well, almost always. Only one time, a client really signed the disclaimer and said "OK, go ahead." I was speechless for a moment, and then said "I'm sorry, but on second thought, I just can't do this". I'm sure another framer ruined it according to her request.

...in a society where people can sue fast food restaurants for gaining weight and win billions of dollars from tobacco companies, who or what DOES protect the little guy?

Our only protection is the law of averages. There are so many of us "little guys" that most of us will get lucky. It's the BIG guys that have to be most careful.

Lawyers don't want to sue poor defendants. they want to sue defendants with deep pockets...the deeper, the better.
 
Whether it will stand up in court or not, we do a condition report with any valuable/irreplacable/damaged item that comes into our shop. Have you ever framed something only to have the customer say "I don't remember that wrinkle/spot/scratch, etc."? I have. On the report, any flaws are noted. If it is perfect, that is noted, also. We also note that preservaton matting/mounting/glazing/fitting were discussed, and accepted or decined. I don't actually let the customer decide whether they need these things or not, I just put them in if I feel the package needs it. They find out they are getting it when they sign off on it. I find this works better because the customer has already accepted the price, and we don't get into a "how is this", "how much is that discussion?". Most just nod their heads and go "okay".
We do the condition report in three parts. One goes with the customer, one stays with us, and one get sealed inside the package.
 
Pamela,

This is a great idea!!!

Is there any way you could send me a copy of that form?

Ted
 
Most popular framing POS systems also have a section for art condition, which prints right on their receipt. (for their signature)

Mike
 
My method is a little different.
I have preprinted lines in my "misc items" portion of my POS orders that indicate:

"work does not meet PPFA / FACTS standards"

"work done at customer's risk"

"work done without warranty"

I have never neen challenged by the insertion of these added instructions.
 
Does anyone use short term insurance policies with the preium paid by the customer? This was something suggested to us years ago. Never did it, and the cost today may be higher than back then.
 
A condition report is a great idea, because sometimes condition of the artwork is the last thing you might think about, especially if at first glance, it looks fine. When you start working on it, however, only to discover some mark that you can't remember if was there when it came in that you start to freak, and wish that you had paid closer attention. One time, at the shop I used to manage, an oil painting was taken in that was fairly old. Storage was at a premium here, so most times canvases would be wired and hung on the wall, out of harms way. Well, this particular canvas was hung in the bathroom, kinda low near the "throne". Anyway, when it was ready to be fit, the fitter realized that there was a rather large hole in the canvas. The designer who took the order couldn't remember if it had been there or not. We inspected the bathroom and nothing was even remotely near the painting that could have caused it. After careful inspection, we saw that the hole looked at least as old as the painting itself. It was fit, and the customer called. Turned out, the hole had always been there, the customer knew about it, and just had never had it repaired. So for a period of about three hours, the whole shop was in a panic, which could have been avoided if the condition had been noted right from the beginning. Needless to say, to this day, I inspect everything coming across my design table, and even the most minute flaw gets pointed out right away. It saves a lot of greif in the end.
 
The condition report is a superb idea. I always try to check over an item with the customer to point out any imperfections because I have had a few run ins in years gone past with people blaming me for fingermarks on needlework etc when they were already there...

Well it doesn,t happen any more I can tell you.
 
FACTS has little labels for the back (and inside too) of frames that states: Important - this is frame to a standard:
FACTS No._____(put in the FACTS standard number here like FRM2000 which is dated 2000) and a place for the date framed. (This establishes that you framed it to the most current standard available at the time - not some personal opinion information you got from some magazine article. )
"Noted Exceptions to this guideline are:_____ (lotsa space to note exceptions to the standard) For example: #7 Regular mats (the #7 refers to paragraph 7 of the standard that specifies matboard), #8 art drymounted , #9 Regular glass.

Since you already talked to your customer about all of these items - the label reminds them for years to come what their decisions were. I'll bet that this will also quash a lot of would be complaints about faded mats and damage to art. No, they won't cover your butt any more than a disclaimer will but might help.

These labels are available at cost from FACTS call 1-800-227-9934 8-4:30 Pacific Time
 
In addition to doing a condition report with the customer standing right there, if we get a piece that is already framed to work on, we also note that "the piece is subject to damage under the current framing". We have found damage after we have opened frames, and have this save our toukuses from angry customers.
 
toches
as in THIS . BTW: This is what you say when the customer says the damage was there before, and you didn't list it on the report on purpose.
 
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