No More Springs in Aluminum Frames

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Jim Miller

Jim Miller

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There are a few issues with using spring clips in aluminum sectional frames:

1. They fly dangerously on occasion

2. They impose too much pressure on the frame's contents and restrict normal expansion/contraction, causing buckled mats, broken glass, and other problems.

3. They're not cheap.

Two alternatives work better, IMO:

1. Foam board and matboard strips, cut from scraps. Who doesn't throw away tons of board scraps? Well, here's a way to put some to good use. Trim the scraps to 1/2" width and stack them together to the needed thickness for any sectional frame. Use a few small dots of frame glue to hold them in the frame.

2. Or, even better, use Poly Foam Caulking filler, such as this example from Lowe's. This is a round-profile length of closed-cell foam, like soft styrofoam, which comes in several diameters. Buy them in the insulation department of any home improvement store. Use scissors to snip off pieces of 3" or so, and compress them into the frame, just as you would install springs. They have a sort of non-slip surface, so compression holds them in place. They are soft, and would not impede normal expansion & contraction of frame contents.
Frost King Caulk Filler.jpg
 
Cool! Any idea what the cost is on the foam caulk!?
How easy is it to take back out!??:popc:
 
blackiris said:
Cool! Any idea what the cost is on the foam caulk!?
How easy is it to take back out!??:popc:
Click to expand...

its just a foam rope, $2.56 for 20'


I normally use foam core or mat, with a drop of glue to hold in place if needed.
 
blackiris said:
Cool! Any idea what the cost is on the foam caulk!?
How easy is it to take back out!??:popc:
Click to expand...

Wherever you choose to buy it, the "poly rope" foam caulk filler is cheaper than springs, by a long shot. You can easily pick them out using a nailset, awl, or screwdriver.

If you decide to try the poly rope suggestion, I suggest buying it in 3/8", 1/2", and 5/8" diameter. We use all 3 diameters in our shop. For the neatest fit, or if you run out of a smaller diameter, you can use a razor blade to cut the poly rope in half lengthwise.

Remember that you need only enough compression to hold the rope in place, and it is OK for the contents of the frame to rattle a little. Too much compression would make the frame too tight, which is an uncontrollable problem with springs.

The poly rope recesses nicely under the back of the standard sectional aluminum, but I like the neutral gray color, too.
 
The foam and matboard scraps can work well I'd bet. I'd be concerned with using regular foam board because of how it ages, especially such a little piece. But that might be unfounded and we always have tons of acid free scrap. The trick is taking the time to get the gap so it's filled it properly.

The foam tubing is a really neat idea. It's a little more expensive than spring clips but it's negligible since they are both so inexpensive. And it might well make for a product that differentiates you from the competition a little bit. I like the idea.
 
Better than springs - mat or foamcore

We put the top piece (one layer or several layers with ATG to bond them) in first - a light friction fit. Next, cut the sides almost long enough (0.5 mm or 0.04 inch)so they hold the top piece up in place. Final placement of the bottom piece, with the same lite friction fit, holds the lower end of the sides in place. Removal is done with a T shaped 2 inch long pin, starting at the bottom, then sides, then top, if any additional mat openings need to get cut in the future.

This helps when using a spacer strip fastened to the glass, the springs would be very tight after that spacer.

Ken Bender
 
Another foamcore fan here. That's what we have been using since, well ... ever I guess.
 
Still using spring clips on the 2-3 metal frames we sell each year. In my 30 years of framing I have never had a metal frame job come back with issues causes by the spring clips. Not saying that it can't happen, just that I have never seen it on a job that I did.
 
I haven't used spring clips in years. The foam is a nice touch, though. I've been using scrap rag stacked.

I happen to have hundreds of spring clips just sitting around in my way. I used to order hardware in polybags and just tossed the spring clips in a box. I'll be happy to send them to anyone who really wants them or has a market for them. Just PM me.
 
I use springs sometimes, but manipulate them backwards to release some of their tension.

Most of the time I use AFFC strips as spacers, never occurred to me to hold them in place with glue - good idea!

Sometimes I use foam core strips with springs on top. But always foam in the bottom rail to keep dust and bugs out of the bottom of the frame.

I like the idea of the insulating strips.

Cool beans!

Welcome to the Grumble, Ken!!! :)
 
We had a metal frame come in late last year where the previous shop had used the insulating strips. They had drymounted a piece and then used the strips to secure it in the N15 profile frame. The customer wanted to go to a wood frame and mats. Taking the strips off the back of the foamboard caused ripping issues that if we were going back into metal would have looked horrible. I think that I'll stick with spring clips.
 
We haven't used Spring Clips on metal frames in our shop since about 1980!

Sometime in those first couple of years of framing, I believe that it was Greg Fremstad who first made me aware of the uneven pressure that results when using Spring Clips.

(Greg shares many logical ideas on fitting, joining etc. if you stop by his booth (FrameSpace) at the WCAF show.... He can be a bit of a grumpy engineering type, but he's always willing to share some of his 40 years of experience. :thumbsup:)

Although I was aware of the ploy-rope insallation foam, we default to strips of foam board cut pin wheel fashion - Clean and Neat! (And if you don't have any scrap foam board strips, we can send you some....got plenty!) ;)

John
 
Here's what you need to think about with the spring clips: how much fun has it been for YOU to take apart a metal frame where the previous framer used the spring clips, and they are dug in deep into the foam core, and recessed all the way under the metal frame? Yeah, no fun at all. So think of the next framer down the line, and use the strips of matboard and foamcore.

But here's where I differ from Jim Miller -- don't clue or ATG them into place. Again, be kind to the next framer (and it may be YOU), and make it easy to take apart. Just slide the strips into place, layer them as needed, and don't worry about them slipping out. If you have the right amount, they will stay just fine, and if you (or someone else) ever needs to remove them, it will be very easy.
 
I guess I'm just surprised because spring clips have never been an issue for us. Putting them in, harming the artwork, removing them, etc. To be fair, we don't do more than 3% of our jobs in metal but that is still a decent number and it's never been an issue. Interesting.
 
PaulSF said:
...But here's where I differ from Jim Miller -- don't clue or ATG them into place. Again, be kind to the next framer (and it may be YOU), and make it easy to take apart. Just slide the strips into place, layer them as needed, and don't worry about them slipping out. If you have the right amount, they will stay just fine, and if you (or someone else) ever needs to remove them, it will be very easy.
Click to expand...

But, Jim likes them loose enough for the glass to rattle around against the glass. :p Seriously, they don't have to be "tight" a couple of spots of glue between the spacers and the mount board will be enough to hold them in place and allow easy release of the frame when disassembling - the spacers can then be popped off.
 
I agree with Paul. Why glue them in place?


I sell practically no metal... maybe a couple/three jobs a year.
 
I sell tons of metal frames and I, gasp, use the springs. I used to think that metal frames made up a small portion of my business, but looking at the books shows that I do 40-50% metal frames. And I am not embarrassed by that fact, or the fact that I use spring clips. I do use foam scraps and I do pinwheel so they stay in, I also use a whole strip across the top,full strips on the sides and a piece in the center of the bottom to hold the sides in place.

Jim, I like the suggestion about the roll foam. I would think using a strip that filled the whole void, inside of just 3" chunks would be useful in keeping bugs and dust out of the rails.

The springs can break the glass if the customer doesn't take them out first, but isn't that why we bought the spring mate tool? but to me if a pair of needlenose can't fit in the gap then springs are gonna be too tight so use foam core strips, or now the roll foam....
 
I use the spring clips. I do what Mar does and bend them backwards a bit to take some of the "spring" out depending on how much fill room is needed. I've even taken a pair of pliers and almost completely smooshed them flat when I just need a teeny bit of filler. I also use them so the rounded part is against the foamcore. I never have problems taking my own apart. I do struggle with taking others apart to reframe though. Especially if they are put in what I consider upside down.

I'm interested in this foamy stuff Jim talks about though.
 
Kathy it is sold in Home depot and other hardware stores. You can get it in the insulation area, used to fill in around door frames and window frames. Oh, and kids use them to make homemade bullets for nerf guns :)
 
Funny, when I insert spring clips, I always insert them feet down. So each spring is making 2 pressure points instead of just 1.

Is this one of those things like toilet paper (over or under) installation?

Which way do those of you who sell metal frames and use spring clips install the springs? Which way is up?
 
I haven’t tried this foam caulking material, so I can’t speak to the effectiveness of it, but I would like to challenge the cost savings.

I still use the spring clips. If they are too tight in the frame channel, bending them “flatter” seems to lessen the tension.

I place the springs at about eight inches apart so, for a 16” x 20” frame, I will use about 10 of them. Through United MFRs, they offer 1M for $20.50 which works out to ~ 2¢ each, so for the above frame, I’d use 20¢ worth of springs.

For the foam caulking, at $2.65 for a 20’ roll that works out to be 1.1¢ an inch. If you cut them into 3” lengths and place them roughly eight inches apart, you are using up 30” of the stuff at a cost of ~ 33¢ per frame.

Framar said:
Funny, when I insert spring clips, I always insert them feet down. So each spring is making 2 pressure points instead of just 1.

Is this one of those things like toilet paper (over or under) installation?

Which way do those of you who sell metal frames and use spring clips install the springs? Which way is up?
Click to expand...

When I insert the springs (obviously from the back with the glass side down), I insert them “feet up”. They seem to slide in easier and are a lot easier to remove AND, IMO, they don’t dig into the foam board backing anywhere near as much.

But, whether you have two pressure points on the foam or two pressure points in the frame channel, there are still two pressure points. :smiley: And, whether the remaining “third” pressure point (from the apex of the spring's curve) is on the foam backing or in the channel, it would seem to me to make no “never mind” one way or the other.
 
Framar said:
Funny, when I insert spring clips, I always insert them feet down. So each spring is making 2 pressure points instead of just 1.

Is this one of those things like toilet paper (over or under) installation?

Which way do those of you who sell metal frames and use spring clips install the springs? Which way is up?
Click to expand...

Feet down on the foam core, same as you, and we loosen them first. We also don't shove them to the very back of the channel. Unless we are dealing with really valuable art, we use spring clips. For poster specials and DIY jobs, we need to be quick and spring clips fit the bill.

In 35 years we have not had damage or buckling problems with spring clips. (I have seen buckling with fitting staples shot through foam core backing) For valuable art we have either filled the back with extra foam core sheets or used stips of mat or foamcore. We sell very little metal except for the OEM package special.
 
Kirstie I was doing a pretty valuable piece and didn't use spring clips, used fome strips instead. the people brought it back in and wanted me to put in springs as the glass was loose....

So no matter what we do it is wrong in someone's eyes ;)
 
Even if spring clips won't damage the art, they will damage the next framer's face when he or she tries to remove YOUR spring clips, and they fly out of that frame. Be kind to the next framer, and don't use materials that will fly out and hit her in the face.
 
Nope, I am using spring clip. I have respect for the next framer. I am assuming the next framer has the proper tools and knowledge to know to take the clips out. I have had to find tools to take apart obsolete metal frames that have hex keys instead of philips screws in the corners. I don't curse the prior framer fr having used what was the prevailing technology of their day. I find a way to replicate and learn.

Now there are many valid reasons not to use spring clips, but to say you are doing "for the next framer" doesn't cut it to me. Sorry :) Crushing artwork, not allowing the paper to expand and contract and others are valid and worth considering, but since the technology and standards change (Oil paintings need to "breathe" for example) doesn't mean that using the methods "of the day" are wrong.
 
I use spring clips fairly regularly and if I have to remove them my fail-safe method is to grip the spring firmly with fine-nosed pliers and twist the pliers to flatten the spring before withdrawing it. If there isn't enough room for the pliers I tease one end out with a screwdriver until I can get a grip. While working the clip out I keep my other hand firmly over it to prevent any accidents.
 
Needlenose, wire cutters or perhaps a tool made to remove the spring clips all do a wonderful job of doing their job. It's amazing I can get any work done with all of these "missles" flying around the shop.

F3060.jpg
 
Tried using the insulation/foam core technique instead of the clips and had every one come back to me asking for the clips. Something was said about not doing it right....go figure:shrug: still using clips.
 
Bob Doyle said:
Nope, I am using spring clip. I have respect for the next framer.
Click to expand...

Apparently not.

Oh, and there is the spring clip embedded so deeply under the frame and into the foam core that even with needle-nose pliers, that clip won't come out. The only way to remove it -- and I've had to do this -- was to disassemble the frame with the spring clips still dug in tightly. Guess what happens? Yes, the glass cracks and breaks, so in addition to the nasty dust and spider webs, and the flying spring clips, we have shards of glass which will cut the artwork, if they don't cut the framer.

But hey, thanks.
 
I dont take metal frames apart and cuss and swear at the framer that framed it before......
Thats freakin insane.

I DO however call them IDIOTS when they glue the mats down to everything which ends up ruining the board the work is mounted on.

If spring clips go flying.......... It's the framer taking it apart that OBVIOUSLY doesn't know how to do it.
 
Or doesn't have the right tools, or how to use the tools they have correctly....

Fletcher makes a great little tool for putting in and taking out spring clips. Of course 25 years from now when a different tension device is used the springs will be few and far between and framers won't carry the "antique" tools we use today.

Paul one thing I find that helps with stubborn springs is to push one end up with a flat blade screw driver and slip a piece of matboard under. Then you can pull the matboard out and the spring comes flying with it. It's a matter of increasing the surface area the spring is making contact with. I also find that putting the frame glass down on the table and removing the springs with my free hand over the springs keeps them from flying too far.

That said I have been tempted more than once to score the front of the glass so that when it does break because of the #### spring clips that at least the shards will not damage the artwork. Like when cutting circles you put the score lines radiating out. You can't control or stop chaos but you can try to direct it.

But you point out the limits of the springs and why a framer should have multiple tools at their disposal. To use only spring clips limits you, and using only roll foam will limit you as well. But not knowing how to safely deal with any of them severely limits you. I do have faith in the next framer. I have faith that they will be able to figure out how to safely undo my mistakes, like we have to figure out how to safely undo the mistakes that cross our worktables.

I know you know what you are doing, I can only hope you don't honestly think that my using techniques that I have at my disposal is an attempt to sabotage your shop when you have to fix my mistakes...
 
Well, at least Paul does not ever have to worry about either taking springs out or putting them into a frame again. One of the many perks of frame shop-lessness! (Thinking of Les Nesman in a frame shop, LOL!)
 
I both clip and strip depending on my mood.
 
At my age, Bob... well, let's just say that the days of walking up to the highway and showing some leg to drum up business are long gone! :icon21:
 
Oh no, Paul! Working in a frame shop again??? Can't stay away from us, eh?

How long do you have to wait for the results from the bar exam?
 
I haven't used spring clips in years for all the reasons cited. I don't use strips either. I put in as much backing as necessary to fill it. I prefer to use corrugated rag board instead of foamcore. It's light weight, archival and doesn't smash down as easily.
 
PaulSF said:
May 18, 6 pm
Click to expand...

What, what what? wait, Paul you're taking the CA bar exam! Where have I been? I missed that bit of information... Good for you man good for you. I have been told that CA's bar is the hardest in the country and that [strike]if [/strike] when you pass it you can pretty much practice law in any state you choose.

Good for you! Many here have denigrated lawyers and been really down on them, but having grown up in a household of a third generation lawyer I have to tell you I have a profound respect for the field. Usually you hear of lawyers, and doctors and professionals retiring and becoming framers, or other craftsmen, rarely do you hear the obverse. Good for you for being one of the few, wise ones :)

You'll like law.
 
I practiced law many years ago, in other states, before going into business on my own.

The thing about California is, they don't recognize bar admission in any other state. So no other state recognizes California. It's the old "you scratch my back, I scratch yours" thing. Since California doesn't scratch anyone else's back, the rest of the world says "scroo you" to California. So even though I'm admitted to the bar in Ohio and Massachusetts, I had to go through the 3-day ordeal in California.
 
Whoa Paul; good for you!!!!!! So while you're waiting, you are framing again????


As for the springs in alu frames...I inherited so many from the previous shop, so yes, I still use them. I do bend them back like Mar to lessen the tension. I do sell aluminum frames regularly, more than I thought I did in fact. When I run out of the clips, I'll try the foam board strips and see how I like them. But I can also imagine some of my customers coming back to ask for the clips, it being the 'proper' way in their minds.
 
Pat Murphey said:
Huh? That has nothing to do with what we are talking about. And, are we not pros?
Click to expand...

Haha.... I knew you should post like that Pat..... Many years ago we developed machines to mount springs at the backplate for aluminum frames. This because of the hustling and jumping of separate-mounted springs (U-form) as usual. Beside that it's a fast production method.
 
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