Nielson distress ...

[FramingFool]

I dunno about you, but I've been seeing the unique Nielson metals going away ..... I missed the 16 series ... and now the 54's ... it's too bad a company the size of Nielson/Bainbridge can't see it within their capabilites to maintain a few UNIQUE models, in spite of the fact that they're not selling like hotcakes ("unique", remember?).

Yes there IS a question here ...

Any recommendations of above average quality metal frame sources, other than the usual Nielson/Clark/Designer and the 15/20/11 series stuff?

[This message has been edited by FramingFool (edited March 07, 2001).]

 

[Rick Granick]

I agree completely. (Are you old enough to remember when profiles 33 and 22 came in a lovely range of colors like moss and russet etc.? They fell to the great Southwestern onslaught of the '80s, with the seven shades of pink no one could tell apart.)
Furthermore, I would extend my complaint to the topic of Alpha Color-Core matboards. We have used these extensively ever since they were introduced, and our customers love them. Last year Bain. discontinued about half the colors available. This month they further decimated the line. There are still several blue-core colors, but I think only one green-core, one pink-core, and maybe two gray-cores. The thing is, they still make the cores for the remaining numbers, and they still make the surface papers for the white-core Alpha versions. Just because they may not be the #1 selling items in the Alphamat line, why can't they just make smaller batches or stock less or something? The damn bean counters are in control.
The concept of color at the bevel (along with the potential for colored v-grooves is fabulous, and makes such an impression when you are designing. 175 new surface textures is just more repetition. I say give us back the Color-Cores. Now! Grrrr.
;-( Rick

 

[John Ranes II CPF GCF]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rick Granick:
I agree completely. (Are you old enough to remember when profiles 33 and 22 came in a lovely range of colors like moss and russet etc.? They fell.........<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Rick,

While I don't totally agree with the universality of your Color-Core matboards, I do feel that the two Nielsen profiles that you mentioned above deserved continuation!.........Good News

Tomorrow I head for New York's Decor Expo.....I understand that Nielsen-Bainbridge unviels their Spring launch at this show which I learned today, will include 2 new profiles.......one similar to "33" but with a slightly larger lip to accomodate the "standard" 1/8inch allowance better. Also a new Canvas/Shdowbox profile, that will have a very deep design with a channel for glass and a deep channel for mounting boards, etc.

Looking forward to seeing this new stuff!

John



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The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
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[Susan May]

If you want color core, just paint the bevel. Acrylic paint comes in thousands of colors, and if you can't find the one you need, you can mix it.


------------------
Sue May
"Everyone is born right-handed, only the greatest can over come it!"

 

[JRB]

I got so sick of Bainbridge playing musical colors with their line I finally gave up on them about three years ago. The straw that broke this camels back was when I received in the mail from them, a list of over 200 discontinued colors. My solution? I got rid of the entire line.

I had been thinking about doing it for over a year. I could not place an order of their product without having discontinued items on it. I got a brand new set of samples from my distributor. My first order of seven boards had three discontinued on it, one of them, a blue, had been discontinued over ten years. I was holding this brand new corner sample in my hand, brushing packing dust off it, when my distributor told me this.

My business has not been affected one iota by not having Bainbridge samples on my counter. I stock the entire line of Crescent and Millers Tru-View line. I hardly ever get a discontinued item when I order.

I did find out yesterday that Crescent has discontinued over a third of their white core boards. I am going to toss ALL those samples. (Just the white core)

I am now getting ready to replace my Nielsen samples with a new line I just got from my distributor.

The reason I'm doing this is it is the ONLY form of protest that Nielsen-Bainbridge can comprehend. I called them repeatedly about their propensity for discontinuing product only to be ignored completely.

They can not grasp the concept that we have customers that want things duplicated years after they had the first ones framed.

If enough frame shops would do what I'm doing and discontinue THEM, I would bet that within ten to fifteen years, it would work it's way thru their corporate structure that their customers are no longer their customers. I think their sales would have to drop at least fifty percent for them to begin to notice though.

I know this is drastic, but it would work. The one thing I do know is these large companies have got to understand we, their customers, need lines that are stable.

Sending out huge lists of discontinued numbers does not solve the problem for most small frame shops. Who has the time to stop working and start looking for numbers? The bigger shops can just assign an employee to the project on a monthly basis. I'm not a bigger shop.

This is a call to arms, I think every member of the Grumble should toss their Bainbridge-Nielsen samples.

When that huge corporate machine can figure a way of getting control of their product line then we can start handling it again.

The one thing I do know for sure is, I have not lost one sale by not having their product on my sales counter in the last three years.

Join the protest,

John




[This message has been edited by JRB (edited March 08, 2001).]

 

[Ainsley]

I am disheartened. I loved the true-vue idea of any board in 40 x 60 and any board in blackcore. Now my local distributors are stopping carrying the oversize line because they "don't sell". They did a terrible job of explaining to customers the advantages of a line you could get in any size and core...I bet some of you didn't know that. So help me out...switch to True Vue and maybe together we can get get all our board in any size, in any core.

 

[Bob Carter]

John-It's amazing that this post gets me back, but somebody needs to say "Use some common sense". Of course every mfg will discontinue a slow seller. Just as you should also. But the extreme, vitriolic response is neither responsible nor accurate.I get a discontinued list every 6 months and it is cumulative. I doubt if the last one had 200 total. And a sample 10 years since discontinued? Please! Crescent never discontinues like that and the next sentence is complaining about a third of their line. You are in business-Act like it.But before you pick up a new line of moulding, ask them for a written guarantee that every item carried will be available forever. It just ain't gonna happen. But if once again, we can attack the big monolithic monster to soothe our ruffled feathers, go for it. You are cutting your nose off to spite your face. By the way, they will run a special run of any profile you want. Buy 5000ft, stock it and wait forever to sell it. That way you'll never face this mind-bogling dilema that has you so over-wrought.

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited March 08, 2001).]

 

[besthby]

Hello everyone! Been a while since I had a chance to read the grumble. I do have some in put on this topic. As a distributor it is a nightmare for us to keep up with the barrage of additions we receive from mat board and metal moulding manufacturers. The sheer number of items has ballooned in the 12 years I have been in the business. Nielsen Bainbridge does go to the extreme to keep up with the latest color trends. I am not sure how much this benefits the framer but as a distributor who wants to be carry full lines to benefit my customers, it leads to huge carrying costs and losses from disc. product. They have a great quality product but the problems that arise from thier "fashion focus" are substantial. One comment I read was a complaint about the color core mats being discontinued. Those mats are so specific that a distributor may not sell 5 a year. We have to buy a minimum of 5 at a time so some distributors would be buying a years inventory at a time. And then from time to time you will get a call from someone who wants 10 sheets and the customer is unhappy that we only have 6. We have nearly 1000 items in Bainbridge alone. The proliferation of options is great for the framer in some ways but try to remember that it comes at a price. Don't get me wrong I believe than some distributors do a great disservice by not carrying a reasonable quantity of product for their sales base. However, for those of us that do, we are often vilified for not carrying an amount equal to two years of sales. For mat board in particular the profit margin for a distributor is not excessive, if we overstock too much it will affect the financial stability of your supplier.

In the case of the Neilsen 33's, there is a very similar new item (#100) that they are coming out with that is stronger, and has a slightly wider face. It is also extruded to be heavier. The 33 was a bit too thin to be very stable in a very big frame. It comes in a few more colors than the 33. They also came out with a great shadow box which I'm sure will be well received.

I guess what it comes down to is do we want
lots of options and more problems with disco's etc. or do we want less options but a more stable predictable supply chain. I' afraid nobody put me in a postion to make that decision!
Anyway that is my 2 cents or maybe 4 cents as the case may be! Hope everyone is having a great day

[This message has been edited by besthby (edited March 12, 2001).]

 

[JRB]

Hi Bob, It's great to have you back.

I think you have missed the point once again.
All I'm trying to do is get Nielsen-Bainbridge to listen to their customers. You yourself suggested in a previous thread that they ignore customer suggestions. If they are going to be oblivious to the small frame shop and it's needs, don't you think some sort of drastic action is necessary?

Bainbridge is one of the finest products available to the small frame shop. I myself would love to have it on my counter. I would however like to know I will be able to get it when I make my sales.

I once batted around an idea with Crescent mats, it was this.

What if they established a line of permanent colors in their line. Nothing overwhelming for any manufacturer, say 4-5 whites, 2-3 reds, yellows, greens, grays, browns, etc. Just a few basic colors that they would guarantee would always be in their line, no matter what. Something we could reach for with confidence. Crescent never did anything with it, but then they don't have the problem Bainbridge has, do they?

Your suggestion that I never received the list of over 200 discontinued items in Bainbridges line is understandable. I mean how could that be possible? I did however save it and gave it to Greg Obradovitz, the Bainbridge factory rep. in my area. He will back me up on that I'm sure. That was three years ago.

Your suggestion that Crescent did not discontinue over a third of their whitecore boards is also understandable. Laura at West Coast Moulding told me that on Wednesday 3-7-01.

I fully understand that no manufacturer can guarantee their entire line forever and I do expect items to be discontinued from time to time. I do not expect the magnitude of discontinued product that Bainbridge want's us to swallow, it is completely ridicules.

The situation with the brand new mat sample that had been discontinued ten years earlier can be substantiated by Laura at West Coast Moulding. She was working for California Framing Supply at the time and she is the one that told me about it. The co-owner of Calif. Mldg. Doug came down to my store and looked at it himself, Laura will also back that up.

Your suggestion that I am not a good businessman is also worth looking at. My sales last year where up over 45% over the previous year, how was yours? My profits where also way up over the previous year, was yours? I'm current with all my bills and taxes and payroll. are you?

I'm not trying to put Bainbridge out of business. I'm trying to get them to solve a problem they refuse to believe they have. Is that an unreasonable goal?

Best Regards to you Bob, and belive it or not, I'm glad your back.

John

 

[Bob Carter]

John-Your point was impossible to miss. Stevie Wonder could see what your point was. Read your point again, and then re-read mine. Your gross overstatement was my point. Nielsen-Bainbridge is a fine outfit that runs a great operation. They are my friends and deserve better. By the way, it's Craig Obradovitz and he is now the West Sales Manager. He's coming to Phoenix this weekend and we're having dinner. I'll see if he remembers your story. I'll get back to you then. But you might want to be upset at your distributor that is giving you 10 year old corner samples.

 

[rosetl]

Can I please just say one thing .....

Yippee to the demise of White Core's -- as I hope that they aren't coming out with 100 new colors!

 

[JRB]

Bob, I feel awful about getting Craigs name wrong, it's been a long time since I've seen him. Tell him I said hello when you see him. Your right, he is a nice guy.

I disagree with your assessment of Nielsen-Bainbridge, I think they are running their operation by the numbers and the numbers only. There is more to running a business than that. When the bean counters take over a business, the talent leaves. That is the problem with that company, they can not see beyond the numbers of today. What about tomorrow?
Best regards,
John

 

[Jim Miller]

Interesting thread.

After 12 years of stocking primarily Crescent mats of all kinds, we made some changes...

We stopped talking to customers about ordinary, buffered "acid free" wood pulp mats. We still have a pile of them in the bins, however. We still sell them occasionally, but only for bottom-of-the-barrel budget framing of destructibles.

We ordered the entire new line of Bainbridge Artcare 4" wide mat corner samples, and put them front-and-center on the main design table in new clear acrylic racks. Hence, Bainbridge ArtCare is now our default mat choice. We still sell Crescent Ragmats and Artique too, for some jobs.

I'm glad to hear about the demise of White Core -- never liked the possibility that some framers would either (A) misunderstand them to be preservation grade because of the white core, or (B) know they're not, and sell them as such anyway.

 

[Le]

This string started with Nielsen metals. I'll buy more when they make them in 12 foot lenghts. Why are most metal frames 24 x 36? Bainbridge makes matboard that is so special they don't even have to print numbers on the back. That gets my vote this week for the most easily preventable waste of time.

 

[Eugene Dahl]

Put yourself in the Manufacturers' position. They are under pressure to constantly upgrade their product - which N & B are,(in my opinion),leaders in. Everytime they introduce new mats or metals, they increase the breadth of their line. This often doesn't reflect an equal growth in sales. They may sell just as many mats or moulding, just a larger variety. This gets expensive to carry and some slower movers have to be discontinued. We don't live in an ideal world and nothing is perfect or lasts forever. If your customr wants to match something done years ago, take advantage of the opportunity to change the mats on their old pictures. Change is constant - not always appreciated, but we have to make the best of any situation. Hey, I bet N & B would be glad to keep every mat and moulding they ever made if everyone were willing to pay a lot more for their product - but somehow I don't think that will happen. Let's not kid ourselves. We all, including N & B are in this for one reason - to make money. If you are in it for the "love of the industry" only, then perhaps you are doing a disservice to the entire industry.

 

[Frank]

I know that discontinued items can be very frustrating for us but I also understand that a manufacturer can't stock all the colors indefinately. Color tastes change constantly and the manufacturers have to adapt their line to accommodate this. How many mauve mats have you sold lately? I would be much more upset with them if they didn't come out with new colors to match the styles. If the cost of that is older colors being discontinued so be it.
I now there is a new computer printer out that can print directly on matboard. Soon you'll be able to print any color or pattern you want and you'll be able to print up all those discontinued colors yourself. It'll be interesting to see how this will change the industry in the next 10 years.

[This message has been edited by Frank (edited March 11, 2001).]