Question NFL logos on mats

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bframed

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Our shop has been framing lots of sport memorabillia, especially sports photos. I've been to some speicalty sports memorabillia stores that have elaborate framing and NFL logos cut into their mats. I've been unsuccessful in getting info from anyone on how to get licensing or what equipment to use to do the same. Any suggestions out there?
 
Contact the NFL Licensing office. Computerized mat cutters are used for the cutting.
 
I will tell you that most of these logos are done without being licensed by the team.

I remember reading about a case years ago that in a nutshell said that if your framing a licensed item such as a jersey and you add a team logo to the mat, that they can't do anything because the item being framed is licensed and they can't require multiple license on the finished framed project if the item inside is licensed. If I recall correctly this had to do with the Yankees.

I would just take my word on this as I am only going by memory.
 
Just keep in mind that if the po-po find an unlicensed item in a store they will take possession of it. Here they confiscate entire stores full of merchandise and that is before the legal problems even begin. These people end up in jail and the teams sue for millions to be paid upon release from jail.
 
What I am saying that when you frame a licensed item that licensing is all that is necessary and that framed item does not need to be licensed as well.

So framing up licensed sports memorabilia would not need anything where cutting a Packers logo into a mat and putting that in a frame by itself would require a license.
 
Technically the additional logo would also need to be licensed. The licensing requires a fee be paid for every item sold using the name or logo so buy a jersey at Kroger for $29 and the team is paid based on that $29. Then put it in a frame and sell it you will have no problems. Once you cut a logo into a mat the entire frame job then requires a fee to be paid on let's just say $300 for the cost of the entire framed package.

There was a guy around here that had been licensed but then started expanding the use of the licensed item to include other need to be licensed products. He's no longer in the business because he could not afford the several hundred thousand dollars being claimed against him and his business. If you cut a logo in the mat the entire frame package must now display the required Team/League Licensed tag. You can buy a licensed decal to add to the glass and that avoids the additional licensing requirement.
 
Hmmm... Interesting!

Jeff Rodier said:
...You can buy a licensed decal to add to the glass and that avoids the additional licensing requirement.
Click to expand...

Jeff,

Please elaborate? Where is this decal purchased? Is this like purchasing a license or a tag-along item license? It sounds like you've been down this road.... how about some facts, contacts and more information, please.

Thanks,

John
 
There is a team sports shop in the local mall that sells the decals for car windows and such. The decals have the small license logo on them so you have no issues with them on the glass.

This area has so much counterfeit merchandise that the bunko squad does regular runs taking merchandise out of stores everywhere up and down the beach. Unwitting store owners lose millions of dollars of merchandise that they didn't know was bogus (other than the fact that they bought from shady characters at shady prices). They will walk in and just clear the shelves of store owners whether they were aware or not.

If someone has violated the licensing laws by creating a logo even original art the entire piece of merchandise is seized. They just take the entire piece away which includes the frame and glass. I have had people approach me to frame items that are not licensed and I won't even get in the middle of it. They tell me I'm not at risk but the fact is if it is in my shop and in one of my frames waiting to be picked up I am at risk of losing my reputation and any unpaid framing costs.

Brookgreen Gardens is the largest outdoor sculpture garden in the world and they are just a short drive from here. Many artists and galleries sell photos and paintings of the gardens and the cops will take those with them as well. It is legal to frame a photo of the copyrighted sculptures for your own enjoyment but illegal to sell any. During the arts festivals the cops walk the event looking for items to haul away frame and all.
 
i'll share what i know from experience on licensing

two major criteria
if you use a pre-licensed product, you can't use the product in a 'not intended' usage. buy a licensed photo ; it's intended to be framed. Buy a calendar , that page wasn't intended to be framed.Patches and decals? my 100% to be avoided advice is probably okay. Cut a Mini-helmet in half? Probably okay. Buy a notepad with logos printed on to be used as logo inside mat? Probably. Easy solution: if you have to rationalize if it's 'intended' or not, it probably isn't

doing stuff in your own store, one at a time, for a client probably puts you waaaay below the radar screen. put it on the internet and expect a letter the following morning

if you wish to get licensing approval, break out the checkbook. it pretty much requires a licensing attorney

other than those slight obstacles, i say 'go for it'

That's just my personal experience

We used to do a fair amount of framing for local pro sports teams and would get 'one time exemption' for their projects. I heard the three most vigorously protected licenses were Coca-Cola, Harley Davidson and NFL

These people are not to be trifled with
 
Bob Carter said:
Harley Davidson
Click to expand...

There are two different weeks here that are devoted to Harley and you best not try to sell something with their name or logo on it without licensing. Many have told me the use of their colors will also bring you huge legal hassles. Frame up all of the Harley posters you like for sale but don't even think about framing a photo of a personal or friend's bike for sale.

One artist customer of mine sells Ducati paintings and one time tried a Harley painting which was physically removed from his hands never to be seen again. You can paint one and show it around but if you offer it for sale they take it from you. This same customer offers Ducati prints for sale online and through the dealerships and Ducati is happy to have their name spread around. He inquired about getting licensed to sell Harley art and learned he doesn't have the kind of money it would take. This artist is an aerospace engineer that is well into the 1% the gov't keeps talking about.
 
how can they stop you painting a picture with their bike in it.

if i take a photo of say a country pub with a bike outside i havent done anything wrong

its if you doing something where your earning from their logo is the issue

if your mate painted a scene with the bike in it they couldnt do anything about it
 
It's not the act of painting it but rather the act of selling a trademarked, copyrighted item. Somebody can commission a painting of their bike but it can not be offered for sale to the public. If you would like to see how the selling of these items would turn out there is a bike week here next month. You would be able to sell hundreds of photos of classic Harleys during that week. I have dozens of people stopping in the store during bike week looking for them but since I'm not crazy enough to violate their trademark I don't know which ones are trying to trap me into a legal beat down that I can't afford to win.

Here's how serious they are that they even registered a trademark of their exhaust sound.

http://www.bc.edu/bc_org/avp/law/st_org/iptf/articles/content/1998101101.html
 
but for example

if i had a harley, and had a custom chop done to it, custom paint job, all the chrome ground and re finished. there wouldnt be a trade mark to see. i dont see then how they could do anything about it

i can understand that when the main selling point of an image is the logo/trademark.

there are soooooo many custom chops out there that i would be very suprised if they could prove that its their trademark that is making the sale on most of them
 
That would be the same as simply cutting the shape of a helmet in a mat as the required modification it takes to get around the NFL trademark. Spray paint a can of Coke white and nobody cares if you sell photos of it. If it can't be identified you can't get in trouble but if it is recognizable as the trademarked/copyrighted item it is a violation.
 
stcstc said:
there are soooooo many custom chops out there that i would be very suprised if they could prove that its their trademark that is making the sale on most of them
Click to expand...

The real question here is if they think it is recognizable do you have $10 Million to fight over it in court. They do and will to protect their brand.
 
Hey stc

Do the same 'chop' to a Kawasaki and no one cares. Do it to a Harley and...
that's the reality of their 'value of trademark'
Search as you may for all the perceived inconsistencies, but the courts consistently rule in favor of the holder

I said something about 'if you have to rationalize' the usage, you are probably in violation

Bottom line: If you might make a buck of it, they want to get their bite of the same apple
 
Apple has sued Samsung all over the globe on the basis that the Samsung products have used rounded corners. Apparently Apple is under the belief that Steve jobs invented the radius corner. If they ever win that lawsuit every furniture manufacturer in the world will be sued by Apple.
 
When the Marx Brothers released their movie A Night in Casablanca, Warner Brothers studios threatened to sue, claiming that it might do some harm to the value of their interest in the movie Casablanca. Groucho Marx responded by writing them back saying essentially that he and his brothers would sue Warner for using the word Brothers in their name....
:popc: Rick
 
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