NEWBIE total novice advice accepted please

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mrfibble

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Jul 1, 2010
Posts
5
Loc
Hillsboro Missouri ( south of St Louis )
hello there

info ....

im new to this and wanted to try and make my own frames as my wife and I cross stitch and have too many sewings in drawers rather than up on display

and after finding out I cant buy frame lengths to cut myself I thoughts sod it make my own

now granted I dont have any tools apart from an electric mitre saw and now a strap ratchet clamp thingy and a logan intermitiate mat cutter ( a friend in florida was getting rid of hers so sold it to me CHEAP )

I dont have a v nailer as im just using glue atm

ive made two frames sofar using molding bought from home depot
I think seeing as they are my first goes at this they are not too bad

but I know I have alog way to go

so please

any tips/advice would be great
IMG_6036.jpg

IMG_6038.jpg
 
Not bad for your first attempts. Welcome to the Grumble.

I prefer the second one - the darker frame and the red matting really go great on the geometric cross-stitch.

On the first one the linen looks a bit wavy. How do you do your stretching?

And do you put glass on these? (Should, you know - for protection)
 
Lookin good on the miters, Mr Fibble. And as Mar suggested, please use glass.

I would suggest that you find a frame shop near you that is willing to sell you length. Sure, you are going to pay a bit more, but I think that you will be happy with the end result.
 
the sewing is not stretched in the frame as yet as I will be lacing the back and glass will be added as I dont want the stitching to get dirty/dusty

so far all the frame places ive been to wont sell "length" to me hence teh making my own
if I get a router table for teh router that would be another option


cheers for the replies :)

david
 
If you check the Grumble archives you will find a lot of useful information, including clear justification for these few suggestions...

1. Use a mechanical fastener in addition to glue for your frame miters.

2. Use glass or acrylic glazing on needle art, with a spacer of at least 1/8".

3. Avoid using any sort of tape or adhesive to mount the needle art. Stretch it over a pH neutral board by lacing with cotton thread, nickle-plated brass or stainless steel straightpins, or nylon tags from a tagging gun.
 
mrfibble said:
ive made two frames sofar using molding bought from home depot .........so please

any tips/advice would be great
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Where is your Home Depot located?

I've only seen plain hardwood picture frame moulding at my Home Depot.

Your post would be easier to read if you followed punctuation and capitalization rules.

Doug
 
DVieau2 said:
Where is your Home Depot located?

I've only seen plain hardwood picture frame moulding at my Home Depot.

Your post would be easier to read if you followed punctuation and capitalization rules.

Doug
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yes im sure it would be but as im dyslexic I dont notice whats wrong yes I could use word etc but does everyone else
dont mean to be snippy but I get this all teh time
 
im dyslexic

take criticisms for what you pay for them. even my wife, 63 yrs as a 'dedicated' dyslexic, uses spell checker...takes longer but flattens out most of the lumps.
like the colors/tones of the 2nd piece(1st 1 is ok--not that crazy about pigs....unless you count yesterday's ribs?)
 
Hi and Welcome mrfibble.:D

Must say I'm very impressed with the frames. Why buy ready finished moulding when you can make your own? ;) I often use bits of odd moulding to make unique frames.
Do you join the frames and then apply the finish? I always do on hand-finished stuff. You can blend the corners for that classy 'closed-corner' look.

One slight criticism.... I'm not too keen on the mat color on the top one. In fact, with the scale of the frame, I would be inclined to using a flat gold slip under the glass, or even just blind spacers. The needle work already has plenty of space around it.

Like the silver/red combination though.:thumbsup:
 
My only suggestions would be a double mat (keeps the glass a little farther off the artwork) and a wider mat. Our shop uses 3" as a default.

Of course, if you have drawers full of the stuff and you want to get it up on the wall, then narrower mats means more items per wall.

Where are you located? There are some suppliers who will sell to artists, and you could get a whole selection of moulding.

And I thought your posts were perfectly legible. Many framers/artists are dyslexic and so we sympathize (even when we act all picky)

And BTW, "Welcome!"
 
Do a search for picture frame moulding on Kijiji, Ebay, Craigs and any other sale sites in your area.There's often moulding listed for sale by shops going out of business.
Don't give up as your initial pieces look good.
 
sorry didnt mean to be snippy but on one other forum im on their standard responce when they are losing an argument is to pick on someones spelling ie well I cant win but your thick and cant spell etc

as for the frames........ the top one ( pig ) I know there is not enough mat showing but it was my first time doing this and I was making this up as I went along and when I made the frame the wood I used to make the lip for teh glass matt foam core etc I realise now was too thin
the second one ( the square ) I allowed more space for teh mat so it showed more inside the frame
those two used up the initial "test" piece of moulding the second test peice has a much wider piece underneath so that should allow more mat to show without it all being hidden under the frame make sence ?

as soon as I find work again ill start buying tools ( vnailer etc )

again sorry I was snippy and THANKS for the replies
 
Here we go again. One of the biggest problems I have with framers is we are just too nice. Here we are training someone who is interested in taking our business away from us. And then we are even telling him how to get the supplies and materials form wholesale sources so we can lose even more sales. I do not think we should be helping people who are not in our business to cut our own throats. I am all for helping each other, that is the professional framer not the amatuer who is out to steal the money I am so despiratly trying to earn.!!!!!!!!
 
Ray Bragg said:
Here we go again. One of the biggest problems I have with framers is we are just too nice. Here we are training someone who is interested in taking our business away from us. And then we are even telling him how to get the supplies and materials form wholesale sources so we can lose even more sales. I do not think we should be helping people who are not in our business to cut our own throats. I am all for helping each other, that is the professional framer not the amatuer who is out to steal the money I am so despiratly trying to earn.!!!!!!!!
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Agreed.
 
thanks to all those that offered advice tips etc

I'll leave and stop asking questions but those that think me asking questions is in some way stealing from you ............

HOW did you get your start did you wake up one day and all of a sudden were master framers with their own shop ?

I doubt it you had to learn somewhere or get tips from someone

so enjoy your PROFESSIONAL FRAMERS ONLY forum

shakes head ................
 
Ray Bragg said:
Here we go again. One of the biggest problems I have with framers is we are just too nice. Here we are training someone who is interested in taking our business away from us. And then we are even telling him how to get the supplies and materials form wholesale sources so we can lose even more sales. I do not think we should be helping people who are not in our business to cut our own throats. I am all for helping each other, that is the professional framer not the amatuer who is out to steal the money I am so despiratly trying to earn.!!!!!!!!
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Bitter much?.......L.
 
mrfibble said:
thanks to all those that offered advice tips etc

I'll leave and stop asking questions but those that think me asking questions is in some way stealing from you ............

HOW did you get your start did you wake up one day and all of a sudden were master framers with their own shop ?

I doubt it you had to learn somewhere or get tips from someone

so enjoy your PROFESSIONAL FRAMERS ONLY forum

shakes head ................
Click to expand...
Ignore them....I don`t technically belong here myself....But I bite back when needed, and generally ignore the nastier posters, and actually learn things. FEH! L.
 
Luddite said:
Ignore them....I don`t technically belong here myself....But I bite back when needed, and generally ignore the nastier posters, and actually learn things. FEH! L.
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I agree. If you are confident and secure in yourself, there's no need to attack others.
" Be nice until it's time to not be nice "
 
neilframer said:
I agree. If you are confident and secure in yourself, there's no need to attack others.
" Be nice until it's time to not be nice "
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Yup, this is a great time to not be "nice"(love the sig).....Really hate seeing new people being chewed up.Btw, that was not being "Not nice"..Believe me you`d KNOW....That was pretty restrained for me. L.
 
Right on. When I mentioned " Be nice..." I was referring to those who felt somehow threatened by the Newbie.I stole that line from Patick Swayze in " Road House ".
 
I'm being a bit charitable here and hoping those to swipes were meant to be in Green letters.

If they were serious, then take heart mrfibble. You must be doing something right if you are perceived as a threat.;)
 
Cripes, leave the guy alone. He has an interest in learning how to frame. What is wrong with that? There are all kinds on this forum. The common bond is we are all interested in framing. You don't have to be a professional framer to participate. If you don't want to share advice then don't, but don't bark at the ones who do.

Great job mrfibble! You are on the right track for sure. Lacing is a good way to do. Try pins on foamboard too, it is much faster.
 
Just to remind everybody............................The Original BBS for picture framers, open to all with questions and interest in the picture framing industry. Retail, Homebased, Newbies, Suppliers, just interested in learning, everyone's welcome. Lets us know what you like or problems that you are having in picture framing today. You're not alone any more, come join the fun.

It's not in the spirit of this forum to run off novice beginners.
 
We all were novices at one point and learning the trade. I'm sure we all needed a little help when things started out (and probably every once in a while nowadays). WHy try and run someone off whos trying out something he is interested in?
 
As I point out to customers, framing is much like sewing. Many people can do simple sewing, some people can do pretty good sewing. Only a few can do couture sewing. And only a few customers will pay for couture sewing.

I have always been clever with my hands, and I can assure you that I would NEVER have paid anyone to frame anything ever. mrfibble never would either.

I believe we have two jobs as framers... 1. Frame as correctly as we can, never stopping our framing education. 2. Teach other people to treat their artwork correctly. Sometimes it may mean that we provide only mats, or only a frame, but someone who wants to do their own framing is NEVER going to pay someone else to do that work. They may butcher their artwork without guidance. Some try it and discover that it is, indeed, more than four sticks of wood and some paper and glass. They will come to us the next time.

But, hey, I come from a family of teachers... we teach folks sometimes whether they want to learn or not.
 
I would estimate that at least half the business owners in our industry started the way the OP did.

Does it really threaten your business to help someone who wants to frame their own things? Did 'not helping' make you wealthier today?

Some needleworkers are so prolific that they simply can't afford to pay us to frame all their work. Get over it. Hug a DIY framer.
 
Welcome mr fibble!

You don't say where you are located? I would have no problem, as a framer, to sell you length for your jobs. It will be more expensive than you would find at a HD, but it will also save a lot of time in the end and not be as expensive as a full custom frame job done by a professional.

Out of curiosity; was there a reason for not stretching the needlework first? That's where I usually start before even cutting mat and frame.
 
Yet I recall quite a few of those posters that find this to not be an issue were also posting in a thread recently where it was determined that a vendor was selling materials, fitting services, etc to their customers. Many were encouraging that OP to go ballistic on that vendor for directly competing with him. Interesting that in this thread some of those same people are encouraging mrfibble to become a customer of that type of vendor. Having it both ways a little? I guess it's all fun and games until it directly impacts one.

mrfibble, the good news is that there are quite a few folks that will be happy to answer your questions here. I would give you the advice that if you are going to start doing this as more than just a one time type of deal, you should reach out to a framer local to you, buy the materials from them, do your own fitting and mounting but establish a relationship with a PROFESSIONAL framer (it's not a bad word) who can give you solid advice on your unique masterpieces. While you are likely going to get some solid advice on a site with this many experts, what you don't know is what you don't know. Consulting a PROFESSIONAL framer will help lessen the curve and ensure that your work isn't actually doing more harm than good.

I've got over 50 home based framers, artists and needle - artists that buy raw materials from me monthly and I give them a great deal on materials that they could never get access to. I do some of the work, they do some others. But I can guarantee that each one of them is doing it the right way because I've been happy to teach them how. They are supporting me like I'm supporting them.
 
pwalters said:
Yet I recall quite a few of those posters that find this to not be an issue were also posting in a thread recently where it was determined that a vendor was selling materials, fitting services, etc to their customers. Interesting that in this thread some of those same people are encouraging mrfibble to become a customer of that type of vendor. Having it both ways a little? I guess it's all fun and games until it directly impacts one.
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I think the issue on the other thread was that a wholesale vendor was also operating as a retail framer and doing the complete job for any Joe-Shmo who walked in off of the street. Taking retail customers away from retail framer. The wholesaler was playing at an unfair advantage because of the fact that they were getting their material as distributor prices and leaving no way for their wholesale customers to sell at their retail price.

In this thread, posters are suggesting that the OP, go to a retail framer and ask to buy length moulding. That is different than a wholesaler selling to this low volume poster.

If he, or someone like him wants to buy length from me, I would sell it as any other cash n carry item with the appropriate mark-up.
 
@ J paul - true, some were. Some were also recommending he establish some wholesale relationships. Much like that other thread, he could go to someplace like Culver and be buying those materials for what you pay for them.
 
pwalters said:
@ J paul - true, some were. Some were also recommending he establish some wholesale relationships. Much like that other thread, he could go to someplace like Culver and be buying those materials for what you pay for them.
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OH MY GOD and one needleworker will cause you to fail business wise because?.........Not enough confidence that you are different,and high quality enough that a paying customer wouldn`t seek you out? L.
 
It won't cause me to fail because we don't really focus on needle art to begin with and have a competitor who does focus on it so the majority of the business goes their way. I am not hurt by that either. In my opinion (and that's all it is) giving that advice to someone who is going to go branch out on their own you are potentially removing a good paying customer from someones store. What if it were yours? I read posts on this site where people who seem to know this business well are failing, and then here we are on the other hand giving a potential customer the tools they need to be able to handle their framing needs so they don't need to go to someones store. Seems a little like the Ouroboros to me.

Luddite - I understand your point about this one situation, but how many of those one needleworkers would it take to move their business away from frame shops to make it worthwhile for you to be concerned? Many are posting about the issues in our industry and I think that this type of ambivalence is part of the problem. Oh well, they are just one customer. Who cares if their speakers got scratched by my metal frame, who cares if I teach them to do their own mounting of photography, who cares if we give them the advice they need to do their own needlework framing, who cares if the vendor sells to anyone who has a credit card? We are going to "one customer" ourselves to death.
 
And what do we say when this one neadle worker decides he will tell his friends how much help we were and they come on and get the advice to go out and do there own framing and then it is a painter and then someone with a print and then and then. Soon we have told everyone how easy it is to buy wholesale and we are out of customers. It was for the want of that one customer that we had to close our business.!!!!!
 
Emibub said:
The Original BBS for picture framers, open to all with questions and interest in the picture framing industry. Retail, Homebased, Newbies, Suppliers, just interested in learning, everyone's welcome. Lets us know what you like or problems that you are having in picture framing today. You're not alone any more, come join the fun.

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Thought I'd repost this. It is posted on the front page. This forum was set up to be inclusive of all kinds of people interested in framing. You don't have to be a professional to participate here. It's really rude to question this guys right to ask or our right to answer. That's what make this place tick. It is a public forum. I'm sure there are forums set up for professionals only. The PPFA forum comes to mind.

Ellen said it best. Mrfibble isn't our customer, he wants to do this himself. Good for him.
 
Originally Posted by Emibub
The Original BBS for picture framers, open to all with questions and interest in the picture framing industry. Retail, Homebased, Newbies, Suppliers, just interested in learning, everyone's welcome. Lets us know what you like or problems that you are having in picture framing today. You're not alone any more, come join the fun.

Thanks for pointing that out Emibub, it is a good reminder. Of course he is able to post. Of course you all are able to help him in whatever way you choose. However, as the section of your "quote" that I've highlighted in bold indicates, I am also able to talk about problems I'm having in picture framing today, and one of those is my perception of an industry that often inflicts injury upon itself. Nobody else has to agree.

Additionally, it's not just the potential for lost business that bothers me about an "amateur" coming to this forum for advice which is why I advised that he go to a local pro to get the best materials and advice to make sure that his wife's lovely needle art gets the treatment that it deserves.
 
pwalters said:
Originally Posted by Emibub
The Original BBS for picture framers, open to all with questions and interest in the picture framing industry. Retail, Homebased, Newbies, Suppliers, just interested in learning, everyone's welcome. Lets us know what you like or problems that you are having in picture framing today. You're not alone any more, come join the fun.

Thanks for pointing that out Emibub, it is a good reminder. Of course he is able to post. Of course you all are able to help him in whatever way you choose. However, as the section of your "quote" that I've highlighted in bold indicates, I am also able to talk about problems I'm having in picture framing today, and one of those is my perception of an industry that often inflicts injury upon itself...
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The correct highlight. Your "problems" are welcome here, too, but maybe more kindly put in your own thread. :p
 
pwalters said:
Luddite - I understand your point about this one situation, but how many of those one needleworkers would it take to move their business away from frame shops to make it worthwhile for you to be concerned? Many are posting about the issues in our industry and I think that this type of ambivalence is part of the problem. Oh well, they are just one customer. Who cares if their speakers got scratched by my metal frame, who cares if I teach them to do their own mounting of photography, who cares if we give them the advice they need to do their own needlework framing, who cares if the vendor sells to anyone who has a credit card? We are going to "one customer" ourselves to death.
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Quite a few....I don`t have a storefront, nor is this my main "gig",but what I do ,has no competetion to speak of.Thre are similar things out there, so that would be competeing in a way, but no DIRECT "threats" per se. I have an open door policy on all of my supplies, I will tell where I get my supplies ,and how to buy them,also how I use them I.E. how "that was made".NEVER lost a single customer over that...EVER! The usual response is "you do all of THAT"? I`ll just buy that one. Just because I enabled them as to the materials/sources at hand doesn`t mean they are going to go and reproduce it, people have admitted they tried, but gave up. This is where being very different works. L.
 
pwalters said:
Additionally, it's not just the potential for lost business that bothers me about an "amateur" coming to this forum for advice which is why I advised that he go to a local pro to get the best materials and advice to make sure that his wife's lovely needle art gets the treatment that it deserves.
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BTW, The definition of "PRO" is making more than 2/3 of your income from said activity..doesn`t matter where the work is done or
techniques involved. Professional is a word that is sometimes given wwwaaaayyyy to much importance these days!There are "hobbyists" out there that know how to do things correctly, just as there are "Pros" that are a disgrace to thier profession....Stop labeling people! L.
 
Luddite said:
but what I do ,has no competetion to speak of.Thre are similar things out there, so that would be competeing in a way, but no DIRECT "threats" per se.
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Perhaps this is why we look at things slightly differently? I have 8 competitors (including two big box) within a 5 mile radius of my store. I don't coach them on how to frame either. Just good policy if you ask me. The great thing about this is that we can both have alternative points of view. Isn't it fun?

As for pro versus amateur, it was the OP that brought it in here and I was using the definitions to differentiate sides in reference to his definition. I said nothing along the way about where you do your craft making you a PRO or not because I know that there are plenty of home framers that know their stuff as well or better than some that have storefronts. As was mentioned on another thread though, I would say that a professional is someone who holds all of the various licensing, insurance, tax certifications, etc to conduct picture framing as a business. Even home framers should be insured, properly licensed for their area, certified appropriately regarding taxes, etc. But again, that's my take.
 
And I would go with Websters definition which does not mention the 2/3 rule.

Main Entry: 1pro·fes·sion·al
Pronunciation: \prə-ˈfesh-nəl, -ˈfe-shə-nəl\
Function: adjective
Date: 1606
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of a profession b : engaged in one of the learned professions c (1) : characterized by or conforming to the technical or ethical standards of a profession (2) : exhibiting a courteous, conscientious, and generally businesslike manner in the workplace
2 a : participating for gain or livelihood in an activity or field of endeavor often engaged in by amateurs <a professional golfer> b : having a particular profession as a permanent career <a professional soldier> c : engaged in by persons receiving financial return <professional football>3 : following a line of conduct as though it were a profession <a professional patriot>

— pro·fes·sion·al·ly adverb
 
Let it go. Someone new to any kind of framing came here to exuberantly and cheerfully ask for advice. Is there any reason to go on and on with anything else?
 
Pat Murphey said:
Let it go. Someone new to any kind of framing came here to exuberantly and cheerfully ask for advice. Is there any reason to go on and on with anything else?
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Not at all. Happy to move along.
 
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