Newbie Question-be gentle:)

Create a Post
ArtFreak27

ArtFreak27

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
Jan 18, 2010
Posts
137
Loc
Ocala, FL
Hi Everybody!

I'm a new grumbler, though I've been reading the threads for about a year and a half. After all my reading and researching, I've just started the 'free framing for friends and family" practice stage. I've got my first little project and was hoping to run this by you all in hopes of NOT botching this up completely. `here goes:

My friend has a 12 x 24 canvas and an off-size frame that she bought at a thrift store and insists that she wants to use ( She's an antique collector). Her frame is 13 1/2 inches, 4 mm x 25 1/2 , 4 mm. She wants me to replace a wheat liner that came with her thrift store frame but is too old and damaged to use. So I have to order a wheat liner w/ gold lip that will fit perfectly in between her canvas and frame.

What size liner w/ gold lip (she chose that out of a catalog) do I need to order? I wasn't sure if I should oder based on the front size that includes the lip, or the back side that will rest against the canvas


I know this question probably makes all you pro's out there want to pull your hair out, but I really want to learn this. I'd appreciate any help I can get!! Thanks!
 
You may get lucky and be able to find one that fits between the painting and frame but you might need to order a wider liner and rip down the outside edge to fit. No way of knowing without having the materials in hand. The liner must fit the painting then any adjustment would be made for the frame. I use v-nails so I can join the liner before running it through the table saw.
 
Welcome to the Grumble.

Two things - if you do end up ordering a new fabric covered liner which must be cut down to fit the frame - trim the fabric away first to lessen the danger of shredded linen.

Also - since linen liners are no different than artist canvas - sometimes I paint them to match the frame. Coat of gesso or two, then paint to match whatever you want.
 
Framar said:
- if you do end up ordering a new fabric covered liner which must be cut down to fit the frame - trim the fabric away first to lessen the danger of shredded linen.
Click to expand...

A relatively sharp blade on a table saw and it is zippity zip and in the frame 30 seconds later. No muss, no fuss, no trimming fabric.
 
Welcome! I am (obviously) not as experienced when it comes to framing, but chime in more often. This is a pretty unique community and I think you find it beneficial to pick the "collective" framing brain.




I too am currently enrolled at the Grumble University.
 
Do you have equipment to cut it to size? (saw, chopper or such). It is almost impossible to order the chop and then hope that it will fit painting and frame. Any chance of measuring the old liner and go with that? Or didn't that fit in the first place.

Welcome to the G. and good luck!
 
Thank you everybody! Its a pleasure to "meet" you all!

Grumble University...I like that!! Thank you all so much for your help!

Like everyone else these days, my friend doesn't want to spend any money, so I think she'll end up going for redoing the liner that came with the frame-I hadn't thought of that.

I'll certainly remember everyone else's tips for future projects, thanks!

I know most of you probably don't order already chopped and joined frames, but when you do, how often and how much are they typically off measurement?

I have every intention of becoming master of the miter & table saw, but I was hoping to get started with some baby steps and some unframed canvases that I already have. Should I avoid ordering chopped frames and wait until I can do my own cutting and joining?

Thanks again everyone! I love this forum!!!
 
There is nothing wrong with ordering chop or even join, I worked for a shop for years where every frame was orderd joined, and they did about 100 per month, of course at that level you can make a lot more money cutting them yourself, but for starters its good to let the people with the right equiptment do the cutting and joining. I would say my suppliers are about 99% accurate when it comes to getting sizes correct, which is better than what I average cutting everything myself. Once you have the hang of fitting various types of art to the frame, then move on to the actual building of the frame.

Welcome to the grumble
 
Welcome to the G, ArtFreak! Yes, the grumble is a great place to learn and have some fun while doing so.

I still continue to learn from fellow grumblers even after many years in the trade.

It seems to me you will need to order a new liner, as the one that is there already will not fit the art. BTW, a liner does not need to be fabric covered, any frame can be a liner. For an in inexpensive option, you can also find some raw stock and paint, stain, or cover it with fabric yourself.

Good luck, let us know how it turns out! :)
 
Welcome to the G. Since this is a practice job, you should practice this phrase:

"It will be much more expensive for me to fit this canvas into your existing frame, than for us to start from scratch and make a frame that fits and is proportional to your canvas."

You picked a doozie of a project to start with. You will no doubt spend hours on it in a fruitless effort to fit a square peg into a round hole. The end result will probably not look very good, certainly not something you will be very proud of. And you will not get paid adequately for the time and effort you put into it.
 
About the size of chops. Depending on the rabbet size, almost all frames are cut with an 1/8" allowance. so if you order a 16" x 20", the frame you will get will be 16 1/8" x 20 1/8" (unless you specify "exact").
This extra space allows for expansion and contraction of the materials used.
 
PaulSF said:
Welcome to the G. Since this is a practice job, you should practice this phrase:

"It will be much more expensive for me to fit this canvas into your existing frame, than for us to start from scratch and make a frame that fits and is proportional to your canvas."

You picked a doozie of a project to start with. You will no doubt spend hours on it in a fruitless effort to fit a square peg into a round hole. The end result will probably not look very good, certainly not something you will be very proud of. And you will not get paid adequately for the time and effort you put into it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help and welcome, everyone!

Paul and Ylva, I know what you mean! I had all these happy visions of my friend picking out a pretty new moulding from one of my catalogs, and instead she comes to me with a $4 thrift store frame! Ah well, I've already learned some great things (from you all) from taking the job, and at this point, any practice is good practice!

I decided to take the simple road with this one and redo the liner that came with her frame.(Thanks for that tip!) Problem solved. She keeps her junk, but she likes it. I learned some new stuff. We're all happy! ;)
 
I now own a chopper because of what a saw does to the linen liners(its usually pretty ugly/unacceptable), but trimming done to the outside edge should be ok as all that nasty/frayed edging willl be hidden under the frame lip.
This is a classic example of putting the equine in front of the conveyance----painting a pic and THEN wanting it to fit into something totally different sized. Artists! they often don't live in the 'real' world. :nuts: Guess that's why they're artists?
It'd be simpler(IF there is canvas enough)/less expensive(If you are going to charge a 'real' shop rate for all that cutting/fitting--& a possible reorder of the target liner when the 1st attempt bombs?) to re-stretch the canvas and have your friend paint out to the the new edges---of course that 'could' also cause some visual problems with the images, yes? On the other hand would it not be simpler to resize the frame????????? that way everything should 'fit' from the get-go.
if you've been lurking that long you will have seen the oft-used phrase "we are framers NOT magicians"--- cant twitch a nose and have the frame shrink nor the canvas grow....
what ever you do , take your time and think your actions/measurements thru....measure 4x then cut 1x. LOL
 
Is it possible to be an intern somewhere close? You'll probably be expected to pay for mistakes, but it will be a lot easier than paying for mistakes without the benefit of foresight and knowledge. Or enroll in classes on the subject, that is if you can find something local. There aren't too many in my immediate area. Well beyond gilding, which may be something to look into as well.
 
ArtFreak27 said:
Hi Everybody!

I'm a new grumbler, though I've been reading the threads for about a year and a half. After all my reading and researching, I've just started the 'free framing for friends and family" practice stage.
Click to expand...

Warm welcome.

I'm just about like you, occassionaly making frames for my wife & family as gifts. I was close to being put to death for doing this, though.

Lot's of good reading here!
 
It's easy.

Take your old liner out and measure it across the face. That's how wide your replacement needs to be.

As far as the width of the flange matching the size for the outside of the canvas matching the one you order, probably the greatest majority of mouldings are milled close (or very close) to the same.

If in doubt, measure the existing one and explain to your supplier that you need one with a flange matching the dimensions you give. If its a hair over or under, you're probably okay just because of normal tolerances. Offsets will help hold it in in case of a little wiggle.
 
Welcome to the G! As for accuracy of chop/join, I have found that it completely depends on the source.

My favorite source is 100% right on and I never have to worry. Another is 99% at doing sloppy measuring (3 of 4 rails different) and/or joining (corners not even close to meeting) and/or sending out w/defective finishes. Interestingly, they are the dist. for the higher end lines and also the most difficult to deal with so I am very happy when a customer does not choose their mouldings.

You will find out quickly which ones you can count on and which you have to measure and inspect their product the second it comes out of the wrapping.

Also be prepared to pay additional shipping for joins for obvious reasons.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top