New guy needs help please

Create a Post
nate737

nate737

Grumbler in Training
Joined
May 2, 2008
Posts
9
Loc
Tennessee
Hey everybody. I am new to framing and glad to find this site. I am having the same problem on all my frames and would like to ask for some help. Lets just say I am making a frame with an 8x10 opening. So I cut all the peices and miter them. My top and bottom peices are the same length from the inside of my miter and my two side peices match. My problem is when I put the frame together and measure the width, it will be 1/8 inch wider at the bottom. Same for the length, it wil be 1/8 inch longer on one side. You cant notice it by looking at it but its hard to get the glass and back to do right. Anybody know what I am doing wrong or where the problem is?
Thanks.
 
Let's eliminate the glass as a problem first, by measuring diagonally. If your glass is squared, those dimensions will be identical.

Once you're sure the glass is not the culprit, I'd say the problem is your measuring stops are possibly moving, the 45 degree stops on your saw are not holding, or are set wrong on one side. Check for sawdust debris buildup on the stops and be sure to lock the saw down when you swing it from side to side.
 
Are you cutting the moulding face up or down? And what type of profile is it? Is the outside edge thicker or thinner than the inside edge? Any of these may make a difference in how your miter turns out...depending on the saw/chopper you are using.
 
Paul Cascio said:
Let's eliminate the glass as a problem first, by measuring diagonally. If your glass is squared, those dimensions will be identical.

Once you're sure the glass is not the culprit, I'd say the problem is your measuring stops are possibly moving, the 45 degree stops on your saw are not holding, or are set wrong on one side. Check for sawdust debris buildup on the stops and be sure to lock the saw down when you swing it from side to side.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. I went and checked the degree stops on the saw and I noticed that when I swing it to the left and stop at the 45 slot, it is actually stopping at around 44 degree.
 
Buddy may pop in here at some point - come to think of it I don't think I've seen him post recently - He often made the point that you can't trust the miter stops on a saw made for general construction. They are not fine-tuned for the kind of cuts a framer needs to make. For mitering a couple 2x4's, your angle can be off a couple degrees and you're still fine.

Your options would be to get a double saw system and tune each cut, or file down the 2nd stop detent until it gives you a true 45.
 
Richard Darling said:
Buddy may pop in here at some point - come to think of it I don't think I've seen him post recently - He often made the point that you can't trust the miter stops on a saw made for general construction. They are not fine-tuned for the kind of cuts a framer needs to make. For mitering a couple 2x4's, your angle can be off a couple degrees and you're still fine.

Your options would be to get a double saw system and tune each cut, or file down the 2nd stop detent until it gives you a true 45.
Click to expand...

I am not sure how to file down the detent. I can lock my miter saw at any position, so I thought I would get a good angle measure, find the sweet spot on the saw and mark it and lock it there each time. Would this work?
 
Are you using a calibrated system like a Phaedra with your saw? I suspect that you aren't using one but marking and cutting each leg without the benefit of a calibrated table. I can't see how you get consistently different measurements on each of your horizontal and vertical legs if you are using a calibrated table!

To get what you are describing, you would have to chop a 16x20 set of frame legs so that one is 16" and one is 16 1/8" and one is 20" and one is 20 1/8" or something around those measurements and that means that you must be making some measurement errors consistently or you could possibly have some kind of movement in your saw as you lower it into the wood. One other possibility is if you are using a chop saw with a laser cutting guide on it, many times they don't cut accurately and are slightly off to one side from the true path of the saw blade. We have a Ryobi 12" saw in our shop that is like that. If you depend on that laser guide for your cutting spot, you will be off from the left miter to the right miter but it would still be an even measurement although maybe an eighth inch off one way or another.

If you don't have one, I would recommend buying a Phaedra system or equivalent if you don't do more than 50 or 60 frames a week. They are very accurate and they are very simple to calibrate and use. I would also recommend buying another saw to set up adjacent to the one you now are using. 2 saws eliminate the need to move the miter saw table back and forth to chop each side of the miters. I have found that the detents on most construction miter saws are not accurate enough for use in our field. Those that do come close to 45° accuracy will eventually become sloppy as the detents wear from constant moving from one side to the other. With a double saw setup, you can calibrate one saw for a left hand angle cut and the other for a right hand angle cut and leave them alone after that. the infeed and outfeed tables of a Phaedra table are calibrated to cut the exact same lengths once you seet your cutting stop to the width of the moulding.
 
nate737 said:
I am not sure how to file down the detent. I can lock my miter saw at any position, so I thought I would get a good angle measure, find the sweet spot on the saw and mark it and lock it there each time. Would this work?
Click to expand...

I'm not very familiar with various brands of chop saws. But yes, the point is to develop a quick and repeatable method of locking the saw to a perfect 45. Whatever works for your saw setup would do it.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top