New Framing design program

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nwright

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i was contacted last week to assist in beta testing a new program designed to assist a customer in visualising a finished framing job. I watched a demo of the program last night and was very impressed. Mouldings, images, filets and v-grooves are all easily taken care of even matching mat colout to a colour in the print. i can't wait to start bete testing in about a week.
have any of you come across anything similar?
I have checked the web and can't find any. I want to compare how this stacks up.
 
I saw two last year in Atlanta. Worked fairly well, one was on a large screen and used Macintosh software. Both pricey, and at that time I questioned the payback possibilities. They were in the $4,000. range by the time you purchased equipment.
 
TheFrameGuy: Thanks for the link. I am downloading the demo now. The big advantage I see will be price.
 
The Frame Guy:
Thanks for the info
Checked out that site. Very interresring but seems a bit pricey. The demo was somewhat limited.
This new program is PC based, runs under Windows 95 and will sell for a lot less.
My customers love this thing!!
I put a sample of some of the things you can do on my website www.wrightframe.com.
 
Vision Works is no longer available to the Picture Framing trade... (I have heard...) They are moving in a new direction under the guidance of Chris Flora of Toronto... A good guy with alot of enthusiasm!

I believe I actually saw a press release saying that VW was no longer available, if you can believe THAT!
Regards,
Tim
 
Great!!! If what you say is true one of two things will happen. Vision Works will fail in their quest for the holy picture frame by miss reading the mass market appeal for their software. I personally think it's the dumbist idea I've heard in 10 years and shall be only found in closeout bins for $4.95. However, if they succeed in their quest I'll be forced to buy molding and mats from the companies that have their samples in the program.

I'm find this nuts. Ha ha ha ho heeheeha whatever.
 
In response to FRAMER and his/her opinions of the Visionworks Software Inc. program FrameShop™, perhaps you should inform yourself more of our company and the widespread uses of the program. It appears you seem quite angry about something. Are you a competitor?
Are you aware that VisionWorks Software pioneered the visual-imaging technology in this industry back in 1993 (which is eons in the computer world), are you aware that we have sold over 200 copies of our flagship program on the Macintosh alone worldwide, at a cost of over $4,000 US for the software? Are you aware that countless Internet sites have either licensed our technology, or create their images and countless framed print manufacturers are saving thousands of dollars creating catalogues using our software? Are you aware that our Windows version is selling very well and will outsell our Macintosh version by the end of the year? Are you aware that several other competitors have attempted to duplicate our ideas and designs. Are you aware that New York Graphic Society, Nielsen & Bainbridge, Larson Juhl and the PPFA are supporting the software? Are you aware? Are you aware?

Isn't a moderator by name supposed to be 'moderate' in their views and opinions? The Internet can be a very friendly place, informative and enlightening. It can also be a place where a person can hide, his/her opinions and statements can be expressed without any knowledge or fact. It appears that you have taken the latter. I would hope that readers and participants to this fine site will note the angry tone in your message and look at the messenger and not the message.
 
Response to NWRIGHT's messages on this topic.
VisionWorks Software is fully aware that a 'competitor' is attempting to create and sell a framing design program along the EXACT lines of VisionWorks Software Inc. FrameShop™ and FrameView, circa 1993. That you HAPPEN to be contacted by this new company to beta test their software and you HAPPEN to be 20 minutes away from the developer who also happens to be 20 minutes from Visionworks is such a coincidence.

Your claim to not be able to find any framing design programs on the Internet is puzzling. The four television features and three newspaper articles in your city have done nothing to stimulate your memory. The numerous trade shows and industry magazines (look at Sept. DECOR, Art Business News, The Bevelled Edge) are obviously absent from your must-do list.

If you are going to advertise or promote a product, please do, but to slander other competitive products at the same time is not an acceptable business in any world. Perhaps an acting class would help.
 
Response to NWRIGHT's messages on this topic.
VisionWorks Software is fully aware that a 'competitor' is attempting to create and sell a framing design program along the EXACT lines of VisionWorks Software Inc. FrameShop™ and FrameView, circa 1993. That you HAPPEN to be contacted by this new company to beta test their software and you HAPPEN to be 20 minutes away from the developer who also happens to be 20 minutes from Visionworks is such a coincidence.

Your claim to not be able to find any framing design programs on the Internet is puzzling. The four television features and three newspaper articles in your city have done nothing to stimulate your memory. The numerous trade shows and industry magazines (look at Sept. DECOR, Art Business News, The Bevelled Edge) are obviously absent from your must-do list.

If you are going to advertise or promote a product, please do, but to slander other competitive products at the same time is not an acceptable business in any world. Perhaps an acting class would help.
 
Renoir, I was responding to the press release that appears on myframeshop.com. Are you a little paranoid or something. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>It appears you seem quite angry about something. Are you a competitor?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The last thing in the world I would do is mass market a program aimed at retail picture framing customers. I find if you let a customer pick out the framing job 95% it looks like a 5&Dime job. Professional custom picture framer must guide their customers in the design process. Thats the reason you've sold 200 copies of your $4000.00 program. I still say you missed the boat if you want to market a picture frame design program to retail customers for $39.00. It'll sit in the bargin bin by the end of the year.

Time will tell.
Good Luck.

P.S. This is The Grumble and this has been my two cents.

[This message has been edited by framer (edited 09-04-98).]
 
Renoir, I do have one question about the FrameShop™ program, Are user presented with suggested retail prices of designs that they create using the software? Or is it just a infocommercial with a picture frame design function? Tell us about your program, change my mind if you can.
 
Re Renoir's comments. I made three observations re Visionworks. The demo was interesting. The program seemed pricey and the demo was limited. This according to Mr Renoir is slander. Mr Renoir, if you wish to know the meaning of slander....read YOUR comments again. My association with the developers of this program began by an e-mail they sent to me through my site. My mentioning it on this forum was purely for the interest of the others and nothing more. Sure hope you don't treat your customers like this
 
We're with Framer on this one. The people and design part of a gallery and frame shop are a big part of why we got in this business. If art and framing becomes that robotocised, it won't be nearly as enjoyable for us.
 
Gary
The main purpose of these programs is to assist the customer in visualizing your design ideas, not to let the customer pick their own. When we look at a sample corner with sample corner mat, we can easily picture the whole thing, after all we have done it enough times. Many customers cannot picture this. This is the main purpose of the program, to help them see your concept more clearly
 
nwright

If the purpose of this program is to allow your customers to visualize what their finished piece will look like, I like the concept. But I think it's extremely important that we retain that consulting part of our business that provides the satisfaction and creativity that goes along with the work. I can see the grimaces on the face of my wife and her complaints now that would accompany a work order brought in by a customer!
 
This is a great string that is going here. This is what the Grumble is all about. Keep it up!!!!!!!
 
Gary
I agree with you 100%. I am both an Artist and Photographer. That's how I started in the Framing Business. Now I am so busy with the framing I don't have much time for the rest. It is the creative aspect of framing that interests me and if I were to lose that I would give this up. Not one of my customers has designed their own framing job, but they all feel comfortable going home with a full colour print showing their print completely framed to show their spouse.
 
nwright:
I don't mean to take up so much of the board but I just had to add that being somewhat of a wirehead anyway I think it's got great potential. It would be a whole lot easier to sell both people in a household on a framing job if they had something to take home to Mr. Frugal to see that the picture of his grandaughter looks better done by a custom framer.
 
A computer program is suppose to make life easier. This program adds to the equation of the selling process. It makes life harder on the sales person by making them answer all the questions that it may raised in the customer's mind. Its another monkey wrench to waste my time.

The winning point is 1000's of companies market computer programs few make it big it the mass market arena.

Good Luck
 
Renoir: The more I follow this discussion, the more confused I become. I've been shopping the 'net for framing software in response to my need to move my shop into the computer age. However, I am having some trouble understanding the direction Visionware is moving. Question: Do I understand correctly that "FrameView" is designed to give the consumer, at home, a visual presentation of what his/her completed framing project should look like? Your answer would help clarify. Thanks.
 
Once and for all I would love to clear up the confusion. FrameShop™ is a program that displays art framed and matted on all four sides as accurate and quick as possible for you, your co-workers, your clients, your pets.

I am an artist and picture framer for over 10 years with a university degree in two subjects. I have demonstrated and exchanged conversation of the program to over 1000 picture framers in several countries in dozens of trade shows over the past five years, so forgive me if I believe I know what I am talking about. Anyone else have more experience than that, please contact me.

Let's look at several (not all) the scenarios in which the program is or can be used (if you are creative and open-minded enough you may want to come up with your own)

Scenario 1: a customer walks into your shop and lays a work of art on your design counter. YOU choose the mats, frames etc.. You state: by the way ma'am how about a French Line or V-groove? In less than one minute you can display these ADDITIONS on the chosen mat(s) for display to your client. Good luck the old way. Stacked mouldings, tapes, fillets.etc. are easily added as well.

Scenario 2: Print up a copy of two or three options for them to consider. Print a copy for your framer to attach to the work order! It costs pennies.

Scenario 3: Customers have a hard time envisioning a 3,4,5 or 6 inch mat width (samples are only 2 3/4) simply show them the larger mat and several combinations first. You figure it out, more glass, more mounting, more frame, more mat, MORE MONEY!

Scenario 4: Create your own catalog of framed prints, including all the specifics of the framing order, and put it in a binder on your counter. Save wall space for smaller shops. Create a 101 WAYS TO FRAME A DIPLOMA catalog on your counter. Remember you never really framed them!

Scenario 5: The trade version of our program contains over 20,000 works of art from various publishers, the searching of prints has never been easier. Over 20,000 frames and mats and growing also.

Scenario 6: Several of customers have used the program as a marketing tool. In an ad in the Yellow Pages: which store would you consider first: one that has this high-tech visual imaging system or one without? The answer is obvious.

Scenario 7: If you want to create a website, simply create framed images in the program in minutes and export them to your website, it would take you approx. 5 to 6 hours to purchase the art, mat and frame it, (not to mention the cost) photograph it, develop the file on a CD-ROM and export the file to your website. A no-brainer

Scenario 8: Do you realize that alot of user's DO NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW about them using this software because they will lose a competitive advantage.

Scenario 9: Simply send out a Press Release to local papers, magazines and TV, I guarantee you will receive coverage. I have never been refused coverage by any media that I have contacted. We have dozens of cases of FREE coverage.

Scenario 10: Mobile frame shops, several of our users take our programs out on the road in a laptop computer right to the hotels, restaurants and offices for display to clients. You can email framed images all over the world for that matter. YOU NEVER REALLY FRAMED THEM!

Go to our Website at http://www.visionworksinc.com/ if you want to get started on the path to increased efficiency, time saving and profits

Now a very small amount of you are so concerned with us selling this to the "consumer", this consumer is mainly artists, photographers, interior decorators, architects, home enthusiasts, website and desktop publishers. Why the concern? They will have to OBVIOUSLY get their framing done by you. But wouldn't it be a refreshing surprise for your customer to come into your shop with a pre-concieved idea of a framing treatment and save you time? Knowing conservation practices? What a fillet is? A no-brainer again.

Question: do you walk into a paint store and ask the clerk what color you want your wall painted? Do you
 
Renoir, great responses to the negatives. Your expertise in this feild really shows through.
 
Looks like an awful good topic for a chat room. Of course it would be a good opportunity for free advertising also, which is what this is turning into. Anyody interested?

[This message has been edited by Gary (edited 09-07-98).]

[This message has been edited by Gary (edited 09-07-98).]
 
Yes you have a nice trade product that not the problem we,ve tried to address here. You completely avoided the issue of a mass marketed version for retail customers to be sold for 39.99.

1. Is this true?

2. What its capablities?

Give us the facts.
 
This whole thing started in Orem, Utah. I +called for some info last year, never got it. I am having difficulty downloading the demo.
 
Sure, Orton.
FrameView is a program very similar in function to FrameShop™. FrameView contains over 20,000 mats and frames from companies including but not limited to Cresecent, Nielsen & Bainbridge, Larson Juhl, Decor, Williamson, LaMarche, FrameMica, Arquati, Max, Nurre Caxton, Roma , Oxford etc.

FrameView($495.00 US) also includes the capability of adding your own mats, frames, fillets, tapes and lines into the program. It includes one year of upgrades and updates mailed twice per year and technical support by phone, fax and email.

FrameView Pro ($995.00) includes all of the above PLUS all the Art catalogs on our system (over 20,000 images, including but not limited to Aaron Ashley, Image Conscious, WinnDevon, New York Graphic Society, Galaxy of Graphics, etc). Also included in the Pro version is the ability to immediately price the framing design, print invoice/work order and keep track of a customer list.

The version we are offering at $39.99, FrameShop™ is a fully functioning program that includes New York Graphic Society (Art), Larson Juhl(frames and fillets) and Nielsen & Bainbridge (mats and frames) Bainbridge, we also include a category of 'generic frames'. This version does NOT allow you to change any of the items. However, you can very easily import a work of art through the video capture function, or import a work of art from ie. the Bruce McGaw CD-ROM. This version is an affordable basic, simple framing design program that allows you to print and save frame designs at any time. It is a way of entering into visual-imaging software without spending alot. If and when you become more comfortable with this type of software, you may want to upgrade to the higher trade versions mentioned above. We will deduct the $39.99 off the purchase price at that time.

I hope I have answered your questions. You can find out alot more from our website: http://www.visionworksinc.com.
Purchase a copy of FrameShop™ and I'll include a DEMO CD in the package.
 
Frank

It seems that this discussion has come down to one big advertsing opportunity. The reality is that the framing industry is years behind almost every other industry in the adoption of computer technology. There appear to be a number of reasons but primarily it seems that larger companies are expecting small users to bear the brunt of the costs. The software and the hardware are not expensive anymore. Even the program that Norm Wright referred to at the start of this string will sell for only $200 when it comes on the market in about two weeks and it runs well on inexpensive hardware, a pentium 100 with 32 meg of RAM. Where the cost is in the libraries of mouldings and art that the suppliers should be proving either for free or at minimal cost as a means of promotoing the sale of their products. This is the most efficient way and lays the cost on those who can afford it most easily and stand to gain the most.
 
Hmmmm, I've been trying to digest all of this after having read about this great 39.99 program in my current ABN. I thought from that article I would be able to introduce all of my own pictures, frames etc. but now this is really a short version of the $995 do it all. As the saying goes if it is too good to be true it probably is. Now I'm going to go check out those websites.JP

I think many of us could probably match the 10 years framing and the University degree, but we'll give you the trade shows Renoir.


[This message has been edited by JPete (edited 09-09-98).]
 
]Pete

With the program I am using, you can use your own mouldings and mats. All you need is a scanner or digital camera.
 
Another one to consider is Virtual Framer from Envision. It doesn't feel as comfortable as I would like, but it does the same sort of thing, and I think it is the reason these programs are more capable and less expensive than in the past. Faster processors and cheaper memory don't hurt.
 
I looked at Visionworks and a couple of others 3 years ago but wasn't comfortable with them, either too flashy or not enough. I found a program called FrameReady that I now wouldn't be without. It handles all my pricing, inventory and admin. This leaves me free to do what I do best, design and build frames. I have over 5000 price codes on it and is very flexible. Also, since using it, less people kick about the price, ( is this REALLY your BEST price?) I guess since, well... the computer says so!
 
I tried the program nwright suggested. It is like a jigsaw puzzle, bringing together the different parts. I tried the Frameview Demo and I bought the Frameshop program. I like the thinking behind that program but I cannot get a hold of Help! Help is only available by email or fax. Renoir doesn't answer his email so I called the order line. No response. The webpage hasn't changed since Oct. 9, when he was supposed to release some vaporware to manage and extend the capibilities of Frameshop. It doesn't matter how good your product is if it is not available. You can be as selfrighteous as you want and the rest of the world will ignore you.
 
Do you suppose lightning strikes again.
smile.gif
 
Le indicates that he tried the framing program that Norm Wright mentioned and found that you had to put the pieces together like a jig saw puzzle.But isn't that what the computer and framing are about? Bringing together different components and having the freedom of trying lots of options.
 
Puzzles take too long. What I really like about this topic is watching the little computer guy....looks like he's typing to music.
 
Unfortunatley, I don't read all the catagories on this site everytime I sign on and I missed the whole thread; until now. I was very pleased even though I must confess a real lack off knowledge about the subject and a real difficult time digesting so much information.
However, this is just the kind of exchange i would like to see for every piece of equipment used by framers. Maybe we could invite all vendors on a given piece of equipment to defend their product against and with all of our members during a prescribed amount of time maybe a week or ntil interest waives?
I have been trying to generate interest in a consumer report type of commentary for framers equipment. The reasons are that equipment can be very expensive and very few of us can scrape our choices once we buy them. Still another reason is what some were eluding to in this threas; Vendors aren't going to say anything bad about their product and they all can't b the best thing since sliced bread.
It was suggested that this might be a good chat room conversation but I think this forum is even better because of the time availabity and the number of people who can respond.What do the rest of you think?
 
As some of the other "grumblers" mentioned, I haven't been checking this thread so it will take me a while o digest all this. I have VisionWorks demo loaded on my home computer but have had trouble getting it working properly. This could vertainly be my lack of expertise, but I will pay more attention and give it my best try later on this week. I know I have an opinion about this type of program for the picture framing industry but I'm going to make sure I word it clearly before posting it. Do those of you who use it in your shops use it with every client or just some? If so what ones? Does it make the indecisive more decisive? I know people who never know what they want when they are standing in front any display. I'm thinking this may just take their indecisiveness to a higher level. just thinking out loud for the moment.
 
To all,
Please revisit the Vision Works site. They have added an admin module for the program which allows you to scan, video capture or use a digital camera to import your own mouldings, prints, etc.
I view the program as a new way to market to my current and prospective customers. This will allow me to present framed art to prospective clients in their homes or offices uing my laptop without lugging heavy samples or finished pieces. Additionally, this is a great way to get framed pieces on a website.
I agree the program is pricey at $495 and $995 respectively but, shelling out $39.99 and $19.95(admin module)I can see pay back in the first few framing jobs.
 
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