Need POS software that shows wholesale.

Sarah Winchester

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Nov 6, 2004
I have been using EZFramer and have been satisfied with it until it was unable to show wholesale costs(it used to, but they changed it). I'm a one person shop and I want to know my cost and profit on every job. I've tried Lifesaver, but they told me I didn't need to know my wholesale costs. While having a POS on the computer does make it quicker, my customers never really complained about quotes written by hand. So if I'm going to spend many hundres of dollars for a new POS it should do what I want. Any ideas, please?? :rolleyes:
The only way that I know to get your exact costs on an order is to do it by hand. My software (framesmart) does show the wholesale on the workorder as well as the retail. However those numbers aren't accurate. For example, it doesn't know if I used a scrap matboard or glass. It doesn't know if I ordered 8' and got 12' or 16'. There are any number of varables that the software just can't know. The good news is that doing it by hand doesn't take long but its the only accurate way I know to do it.
Sarah - I'd be very leary of a software company that tells me what I need - Tell them what you would like to see & the good companies will at least listen & try!
yea there are a lot of variables, like labor, shipping, discounts, scrap use, storage/tangible tax/fire tax depending on how long you keep it on hand, etc.

LifeSaver lets you look up cost for the various components (Mouldings, mats, glazing, art).

Via the ticket writing screen, click "View Databases". (If you have the cursor on the moulding or mat field you want to look up, it'll go right to that item)

Its tough to make a product that pleases everyone, but they sure do try hard
They're receptive to feedback and have probably added 20-30 of my suggestions.

Even looking up in the database doesn't give you the true picture. Crescent or Bainbridge supplies the Software vendor with list prices,but I may have negotiated a better price with my vendor - or I may have to pay freight on top of those prices I used to just take the invoice from the weekly delivery and pencil in the price next to each component of the framing.

My wish is for Lifesaver to print the breakdown of costs on the workorder so I can easily do that now. I think I heard that was in the works. Hope so!
The FrameReady work order screen is about as accurate as you can get (the theoritical cost) as the misc costs mentioned above are not on any data base (shipping, full sheet(in 1/4sheet increments ) for an 8 x 10 mat, discounts, etc. They are only the material costs (COGS) and do not include any other costs associated with operating a business.

As a former accountant, costing to the very last penny is not necessary. It is also easier on the brain to think in average cost.

If you are really interested in the exact cost of a job vs the selling price, the process is called "job costing". It will be more labor intensive than truely benificial.

Job costing will also take into consideration fixed and variable operating costs such as rent - heat - insurance - accounting - advertising - depreciation of equipment - etc etc etc.
I think the reason you want some accurate numbers is to identify specific problems. The theorethical cost isn't good for that at all. The software takes item A and marks it up X times. Then it divides your use by its cost.

When reality doesn't match those numbers, and it rarely does, then where is the conflict?

What if Quickbooks shows a sudden spike of COGS from say 25% to 45% in a particular period? If this information is a shock then we know that there is a slow bleeding wound someplace. It needs to be bandaged. If you look at the numbers some POS has puked out, its impossible to have that kind of COGS. How do you find the wound? I think you grab invoices and worksheets for that period and start jotting down some real life actual numbers on those worksheets and find out exactly where the problem is.

Even though I do it manually, when I do it, its rather automated and doesn't take a great deal of time.
Jerome and Jay, and Maryann and Goddess....Thank You. I do check invoices on each order, and am looking for a areas that need attention. I watch all my costs, rent, utilities, etc. I have a neat little accounting software that alerts me to possible areas of concern each day, when I enter my numbers. What I am really starting to wonder, is why I'm going to want to pay a large amount of money for new POS software. Before I had EZFramer, I did each job with paper and pencil. The customers that bring in large orders always ask me to figure it and call them. They don't want to wait. So that works fine. Most(maybe 80%) of my repeat customers just drop their work off and don't ask price. I often tell them that the next job will be at a higher price. They certainly understand that. I keep track of the number of times new customers ask for the price first and it isn't many. Also I encounter very little price resistance. Maybe that tells me I do need to raise my prices.
So I'm wondering what POS software is doing for me to justify it's cost??
With FrameReady you can check each workorder for wholesale cost per material heading or you can go up into the "Extras" pulldown menu and click on the "Cost Report for Current Workorders" or something similar to that (I am at home now so I am guessing at the title but you'll know it when you see it) and it will calculate the wholesale (COGS) for any period you want to print out. I just did the COGS for Jan 1 to June 30 yesterday for my boss.

Check it out.

Originally posted by Sarah Winchester:

So I'm wondering what POS software is doing for me to justify it's cost??
For me, it's those price updates! I just hit "update" and my whole wall of samples is the correct price. Whereas before, I might be months behind in my price updates and miss out on increases.
If you are having trouble justifying the basic cost, you will probably feel the same way about the Maintence fee. I'm with Betty on this, those weekly updates are great and well worth it.
Well, I have alot to learn. I don't price my corner samples. I do 95% of my business with only two suppliers, in fact one of them accounts for 80% of my business. When a customer is in and IF they ask for a price on the spot I pay attention to the car they drive, how they are dressed, their actions, etc. and price accordingly. I pull out my suppliers price list, always price from chop. I seldom leave myself short. If they just drop the work off, I have plenty of time to figure cost with paper and pencil. And some of you are right that the computer won't know if I use scrap, fall outs, quarter sheets, etc. That doesn't make any difference. I always price as if I have to order a full sheet and such. If I use leftover, the extra profit goes in my pocket. I think I saw a thread over in one of the other areas about this, I'll go over there now.
That ranks right up there with one of the silliest things I've ever heard in my life.
Originally posted by Sarah Winchester:
When a customer is in and IF they ask for a price on the spot I pay attention to the car they drive, how they are dressed, their actions, etc. and price accordingly.

I'm too stunned to respond
Originally posted by Sarah Winchester:
...So I'm wondering what POS software is doing for me to justify it's cost??
That is a common question from framers who are not acquainted with the wonders of a complete POS software system.

"POSitive Benefits", the article on page 62 of PFM's February 2006 issue, was written to answer that very question and a few others, too.
Socialist Retail?

I've attempted to post a couple of times to this thread to no avail....just didn't sound right on second reading, but now...

Your price structure should be in place before your customer enters your shop. You can use a POS, pencil and paper, cunieform tablets, or an abbacus, doesn't matter. If you don't know in advance how much you need to make on each item involved in the framing process you have placed yourself squarely behind the eight ball.
A POS won't help you if you have sliding pricing scales based on the relative economic well being of each client.
When a customer is in and IF they ask for a price on the spot I pay attention to the car they drive, how they are dressed, their actions, etc. and price accordingly
1. You are all green
with envy
2. How could you possible give an answer to someone who already has such a handle on business.

Well I know I can't help with this question!~ So I am off to the flea maket to haggle a new hammer as soon as I change in to my hole ridden jeans & torn sweat shirt!~
Originally posted by Sarah Winchester:
...When a customer is in and IF they ask for a price on the spot I pay attention to the car they drive, how they are dressed, their actions, etc. and price accordingly...
I don't think I possess the skills to use your pricing strategy, but here are a few questions...

If a customer does not ask for a price, and you design the framing later, when the customer is not present, how do you know whether he/she agrees with all of the design features?

If you design and price the order later, do you then call the customer to give the price? If so, do you collect a deposit before doing the work?

If, after a sweaty polo match, a grungy-but-wealthy customer borrows his gardner's rusty pick up truck to bring the art to you, because it wouldn't fit in his Maserati, how would you know what to charge him?

If the prospective customer is obviously a wonderful person, but with ten kids and no money, would you be tempted to lose money on the framing?

Why has Bob Carter not posted here? Do you suppose he has developed a bad case of The Vapors over this pricing strategy?
This may cause him a case of cardiac arrest. j/k

Sarah -

If the Rich guy's buddy bugs him about getting ripped off after braging about his framing - you lose a good customer - be careful using this method!
Despite having billions, Walton still drove a pickup truck and wore clothes from his own discount store, Wal-Mart.