Multiple miter vises

Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

Dirk

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I'm considering gluing certain moulding profiles before driving the vnails. My current joining table has two miter vises on one side. There's not room for more. As I have a Y chromosome, I do not multitask and am quite likely to allow the curing to become a production bottleneck. Do any of you veteran framers have a clever way to line up a series of vises so that several corners can be curing at once? Surely, the swivel and pivot features on the vises would make such a system possible. Pictures, perhaps?

And a related question: Once three corners are intact, what is the best way to introduce glue into the fourth without applying too much stress on the other three corners? I've been using a little, hard-silicone, spatula-like applicator that came with a kit I bought from Rockler. (Squeeze a little glue on both sides and slip it in the gap.) Any words of wisdom?
 

Twin2

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I use Lee Valley Tool's Veritas 4-way speed clamps when I'm gluing my frames and will glue all four corners at the same time. My work table isn't really big enough to hold multi frames, so I will often just move the clamped frame onto sheets of coroplast that I have on my floor and let it dry (usually overnight).

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=31162&cat=1,43293,31162
 

Dirk

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Thanks for the link. I hadn't thought about four-side clamps, as (1) the view of the outside corners is blocked and (2) it seems it would be harder to overcome any twist in the mouldings by twisting the opposite direction by hand. However, I asked the question in order to learn, and perhaps I hadn't seen the elephant in the living room. Since you've apparently had good luck with the technique, I'll try a few frames that way, myself.

Thank you
 

Twin2

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You're right that you can't see the outside corners, but I find if you can get the inside corner lined up well, the outside corner is good. As for twists, those can be problematic. However, if I find there is a twist, I can usually 'straighten' it pretty well by loosening up the corner just a bit and pushing down with my thumbs, or pulling up from under the frame lip. I use Lee Valley Tools wood glue, which has a longer open time, so that helps if I have to make adjustments. It also helps to have an extra set of hands sometimes when working on larger frames or if the moulding is twisted - having a twin is helpful ;-)

I've been gluing my frames this way for almost 19 years now and it seems to work well for me.
 

Prospero

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The idea of using four corner vices is sound but a bit impractical in my book.
What happens when you want to do a lot of clamped frames at the same time?

When I'm doing frames with biggish mouldings I use one of these....

stanleyclamp001.jpg


They work great on mouldings with a groove on the back. I don't use corner pieces in that case. They are not so good on mouldings
such as reverse profiles as the webbing can't get a firm purchase. I don't think this particular Stanley one is still made, but there
are similar straps available from auto accessory shops. They aren't as good as the Stanley ones in that they tend to be quite complicated
and you tension them with a lever rather than the hex head. Also the Stanley ones are easy to extend for extra large frames. You can
buy the webbing in hardware stores. I have about half a dozen of them and the mechanism is unlikely to ever wear out. The webbing is
easy to replace I find the ones made specifically for framing not so handy. You can't get enough tension on them. But whatever way, the strap lets you
clamp four corners at once. I do generally biscuit the corners when doing this which makes things easier as the biscuit locates the join
firmly in the up-down direction but allows a bit in fine adjustment in the other direction. Once the corners are aligned I cinch the strap
tighter and take it to the pinner. The joins can't move and the whole thing is easy to handle. Another thing is that if there is any slight
twist in the wood, doing four corners at once spreads any slight misalignment between the four corners instead of accumulating on the last join.

I have to say that I am a little iffy about pinning after the glue has set. o_O
 
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Mike Drury

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Dirk, I have (24) Stanley 400's, (4) Stanley 100's, (6) Master Clamps, (1) Barton Multi-Angle and too many misc. odd clamps to remember. You might say I have a problem even though I have sold (8) Stanley 400's in the past year. We have found that (8) Stanleys are the perfect situation for us. None are mounted so we load them up, slide out of the way and by the time the last #8 vise is filled we can go back to the first one and start rotating the miters. As for gluing the fourth corner, it is usually not a problem on med. to large frames but on small frames we apply glue to the fourth corner while the third corner is still in the vise then we rotate and clamp the fourth corner.
 

Andrew Lenz Jr.

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This is what we use—the visibility is unbeatable. It's about 40 years old. Kwik Klamps is the make—long gone now—it uses four Stanley vices. The round yellow blocks under the clamps are wood. With some work, you could make your own. The brown tabletop rotates on four upside-down pivoting casters. Works like a champ. Strainers, we'll just "glue and shoot" in the underpinner, but custom frames we glue first to make sure they are perfect.

KwikKlamps-framingVices.jpg

Andrew
 

alacrity8

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I have a much smaller scale than Mike.
I pre-glue all frames.
I have 5 vises. None of them are attached to a table. I'll glue up 5 corners, and then get some fitting done. When I'm done fitting, I'll change out the corners and get back to fitting.
I made some risers out of foamcore to balance longer sticks of moulding while they set in the vise.
On larger frames, it is usually pretty easy to move the corners apart to apply the final gluing.
On smaller frames, I'll use a used mat blade to spread the glue inside the corner.
 

Dirk

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This is even better than the oracle at Delphi. The Grumble is lots cheaper, the answers are unambiguous, and I don't need to scale a mountainside to ask the advice of the wise.

A few questions for clarification, if I may?

Peter, we mere mortals often join mouldings that are less than an inch wide to make frames smaller than a couple feet on any side. How narrow a moulding will accept biscuits? (Oops, that means cookie to you. If we used a cookie cutter instead of a biscuit cutter, we'd be making a bunch of cookie-cutter, ready-made frames.) On how small a frame do you use this strapping technique? I would guess that at some point the clamp interferes with the operation of the pinner. Are you reluctant to pin after the glue has set due to concern that the impact of the pinning process will break or weaken the glue joints?

Mike, are you hoping to sell some of your clamps to alleviate your "problem?" Do you prefer the Stanley clamps to the Master Clamps?

Andrew, what is the purpose of the Kwik Klamp arrangement? Are there locking screws in the yellow blocks? Do the tubes (or rods) help in keeping the assembly square, or do they add stability?

And alacrity8, thanks for your alacritous response to my appeal for education. I have a tendency to overthink problems and look for a gadget solution. Sometimes, simplest is the bestest, even for herpetologists.
 

Prospero

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Peter, we mere mortals often join mouldings that are less than an inch wide to make frames smaller than a couple feet on any side. How narrow a moulding will accept biscuits? (Oops, that means cookie to you. If we used a cookie cutter instead of a biscuit cutter, we'd be making a bunch of cookie-cutter, ready-made frames.) On how small a frame do you use this strapping technique? I would guess that at some point the clamp interferes with the operation of the pinner. Are you reluctant to pin after the glue has set due to concern that the impact of the pinning process will break or weaken the glue joints?

Good questions. :rolleyes:

I biscuit most frames over 2inchish wide. But it also depends on the size of the frame. A big frame with a chunky moulding
is quite heavy and unwieldy to manoeuvre about while joining. Especially if working single-handed. But even if you have six
arms and a bunch of helpers it's still a performance. If you have glued three corners and have to move the whole rig around
to pin the last one there is a tendency to strain and open up your already-glued joints. Which is very not good.
On say, a frame 12x16 with a 3" moulding there isn't the weight or leverage to strain the joins. So biscuits are maybe a bit
overkill. On a bigger frame the biscuits hold the joins in lateral alignment and add to this having it all strapped up tight allows
you the handle the thing without the wet-glue joins opening.

That's my story and I'm stuck with it. :p

As for pinning dried glue joins, my philosophy is that pins - v or straight, are there to act as internal clamps to hold the joint tight
while the glue sets and afterwards continue to protect the integrity of the glue bond. If you add them after the glue as set they will
certainly fulfil the latter purpose but actually banging them in is quite a violent process and to my mind there is always the risk that
this could actually weaken or even break your nicely glued join.
Having said that, some folks seem to thrive on the practice so I'll just say if it feels good, do it....:D

Hope that was fairly unamphibious. :confused:
 
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https://jet.com/product/detail/8e29...15&gclid=CIGSgZnb0s8CFU5MgQod9o0DkQ&gclsrc=ds

These also work nicely on lots of sizes and regular shapes using more or less than 4 sides. I've even used them on multi-faceted fan cases. Glue and assemble inside clamps, tighten, tweak, and hang up to finish drying. Minimizes bench top time. Add mechanical fasteners after joint is cured with the exception of v-nailing hard woods. Likely to break joint.
With two vices, you can glue up two "L" (joints 1 & 3) then do joints 2 & 4 simultaneously. Never a need for having the 4th joint wait for joining.
 

Mike Drury

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Dirk, Can't bring myself to sell off any more of my babies. I have tried all of the Stanley "knock off" vises and firmly believe they are inferior. We use the Stanleys most of the time but the Master Clamps get a good workout also. We have two of each type of Master Clamps and they are very well made and versatile.
 

alacrity8

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[QUOTE="And alacrity8, thanks for your alacritous response to my appeal for education. I have a tendency to overthink problems and look for a gadget solution. Sometimes, simplest is the bestest, even for herpetologists.[/QUOTE]

I'm only a volunteer Herpetologist. My wife is the boss in that field.
We had a Red Foot Tortoise dropped off at the store earlier today.

Brian
 

Andrew Lenz Jr.

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Andrew, what is the purpose of the Kwik Klamp arrangement? Are there locking screws in the yellow blocks? Do the tubes (or rods) help in keeping the assembly square, or do they add stability?

it's more stability. The yellow blocks and tubes are just to keep things better controlled . . . such as less likely to fly off the table or fall over if you spin it quickly when moulding hasn't been secured into the vices. The blocks don't lock into place and the vices rotate 360 degrees on top of the blocks. You could get by with vices loose on table, but I like the "guide rails" so to speak.

Andrew
 

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Robot or human? https://jet.com/product/detail/8e294c5f2a7e480d8259c4090191b17e?jcmp=pla:ggl:b_nj_dur_cwin_hardware_a3_b1:tools_tool_clamps_vises_a3_other:na:pLA_639663029_29970961342_pla-161707183260:na:na:na:2&code=PLA15&gclid=CIGSgZnb0s8CFU5MgQod9o0DkQ&gclsrc=ds

These also work nicely on lots of sizes and regular shapes using more or less than 4 sides. I've even used them on multi-faceted fan cases. Glue and assemble inside clamps, tighten, tweak, and hang up to finish drying. Minimizes bench top time. Add mechanical fasteners after joint is cured with the exception of v-nailing hard woods. Likely to break joint.
With two vices, you can glue up two "L" (joints 1 & 3) then do joints 2 & 4 simultaneously. Never a need for having the 4th joint wait for joining.
Hey Wally, I have been going back and looking at options for vises and came across this old post of yours but the link you posted just takes me to walmart, do you by chance have a picture of what this clamp looks like?
 
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wpfay

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That's probably referring to Bessey strap clamps.
Amazon product
I have several and use them fairly regularly.
 

aaziz58601

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That's probably referring to Bessey strap clamps.
Amazon product
I have several and use them fairly regularly.
Thanks Wally, I ordered a set and it should be here tomorrow, I am cautiously optimistic. I know some people have mentioned not using the plastic corner pieces while using various style strap clamps, do you tend to use them or ?
 
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The faces of the corners that come with the band clamps articulate so they work on lots of multi-sided frames.
They work best on frames with flat backs. I do use them most of the time.
The straps can be used without the corner pieces, but that takes a bit of tweaking, so best to dry fit before trying to glue.
 
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aaziz58601

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The faces of the corners that come with the band clamps articulate so they work on lots of multi-sided frames.
They work best on frames with flat backs. I do use them most of the time.
The straps can be used without the corner pieces, but that takes a bit of tweaking, so best to dry fit before trying to glue.
Hi Wally, I just pulled out my first frame from the straps clamps you recommended and I am very happy with the results. I think there will be times that something else is a better choice but right now this is far and away the best success I have had and I am eager to try more rather than avoiding it! Thanks! :)
 
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