Mounting plaster cast feet

CAframer

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Nov 19, 2003
Posts
3,834
Loc
Orange County, CA
A while back I mounted and framed plaster casts of baby feet (see images below). These are fully three-dimensional replicas of the client's grandchild's feet.

When I was mounting the feet at first I tried sewing them using fine transparent monofilament, but I could not get adequate support using this method so I switched to using very narrow Mylar strap mounts. These hold the feet securely but now the client complains that the Mylar bands detract from the presentation. If you look closely at the photo below you can just see the straps (one per foot).

She has suggested either drilling into them or gluing them to the suede mountboard. I told her that (a) I was not prepared to drill/screw into them because the plaster cast is fragile (the parent already broke off a toe which she reattached using PVA prior to bringing them to me) (b) I had contemplated gluing but had initially chosen a different mount solution not only because of preservation considerations but also because the contact points between the feet and the mat are few & fairly small.

So now I am recontemplating gluing the feet to the suede matboard! And my questions are as follows:

(i) do you have any other mounting suggestions
(ii) what glue would you suggest? PVA? Silicone? Wheat paste? Other?

Thanks for your suggestions and support.

MVC-274S.jpg

MVC-273S.jpg
 
If they aren't too heavy you could use clear silicone. It holds really well and is somewhat reversable. I will probably be the only one to tell you that it is OK to use, but secretly most every framer has had to use it at one time or another. Sometimes that is all that will give you that floating look without costing a million man hours and hundreds of dollars. I am only concerned about one thing with the silicone, that is that you need to make sure the feet aren't too heavy. They look very heavy, in that case I might look at ohter options.

The other thing you might do is to sink the feet in openings cut in the backing board,(you would probably have to free hand cut the sink holes) and the siliconing them in place.

Are the lines in your photo a reflection or is it a pattern in the backing?

Jennifer
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
 
Yeah, okay, babies have cute feet.

But this whole project just makes me think of Jimmy Hoffa.

You have already explained to the cusomer why the feet shouldn't be glued. If she insists that you do it anyway, have her sign a release stating that she objected to what, in your experienced opinion, was the best method of attachment and that while you are acceding to her wishes you refuse to accept liability when the glue lets go and the plaster breaks.

Sometimes, just asking a customer to sign a release makes them stop and think. It shows that you are serious about objecting to the way they want things done.

Kit
 
Are the lines in your photo a reflection or is it a pattern in the backing?
Yes, the lines are reflections of my ceiling tiles! The feet are mounted on black suede.
 
I was going to pay homage to Bill Ward's thread and suggest using Staples shot through the backing!

What about a 2 part epoxy? I used it for affixing hangers to plaster cast masks the high school sends through every fall!
 
Kit I have a customer who is a world reknowned hand surgeon. He has a "hobby" of doing hand casts of famous folks, and being here in Kennebunk(port) ME, (for the summers,) he does have casts of GHW's hands. As well as Clinton's and some other famous people. GW wouldn't sit for him.

I haven't been asked to frame them as they are "on display" at his office in TX. Maybe when he does ask me to frame them this thread will give me some good ideas as to how! After all I'd hate to be known as the guy that broke Clinton's thumb!
 
Remember that the plaster next to the adhesive
may crack, if the frame is mishandled. You did
a great job the first time. Well enough should be
left alone, or whoever wants to play with fire can
start gluing a very weak material that has already
broken.


Hugh
 
Silicone, yes it is a dirty word on here but J Phipps is right.

Let the arrows fly my way but almost every one here has it under the work atble and it is there for a reason.

You used the proper way and it detracts from the art in the customers mind.

Tell them your concerns and then slather them up good (the feet not the customers) with clear.

It is reversible and I think a better solution than glue.
 
First you mix up a big batch and make the baby stand in a tub. Then you pour the batch in around its little feet and hold the baby still until it sets. Once it has set you are free to start the swimming lessons "Jersey Style" !!

At least that's how I was taught and I'm a CPF®
 
You might try forming the backround around them a bit. Carve into foam or layer foamboard and then cover with fabric leaving folds. This would give some support and you might be able to hide additional supports with the folds in the fabric (remember the old finger in a box of cotton trick?) and if gluing,it would also give you more surface area. How much will they spend? Hugh is right about gluing plaster. You could end up with a little white lump on your backing board and your feet on the floor. Do you know if it's really plaster of paris? If it's hydrocal (which is what comes with the kits I've seen) you'll have better luck as it's stronger and less powdery. It has a more porcelin type ring to it when you tap it. Drilling and putting in an anchor could be a possibility. Bet I could do it 9 times out of ten. Worst case could they redo the feet? How lucky do they feel? Anyway I think it looks great the way it is and you can tell them I said so. Great job.
 
Wouldn't it be nice if the people that make and sell these things ask what the customer is going to do with them/how they are going to display them.


'Don't know/will put them in the display cabinet' - fine, just cast them as normal.

'Oh, Im gonna frame 'em' RIGHT cast them with some fuse wire going through at the back - or something.

Still, they didn't did they. I'd use silicone, as much as it takes, long as you can't see it.
 
I would not silicone this.

If you do, then you are asking for the customer to come back three years from now and say, "I MUST have this backing color changed! ImustImust!" or "I need you to replace this water stained backer..." Just try to get that cast off without damaging (or destroying) it. Just try, I dare ya. And if you haven't had that happen in your shop, email me and I'l tell you how many times it has happened in mine.

I have, in the past, had 'success' with silicone releasing from a framed ceramic plate. That was when the cat knocked it flat on its face when it was leaning on the floor. CLUNK- it came right off. Luckily it was my plate. Luckily it didn't break. I remounted it with brass clips.

HOWEVER, I can't imagine the mess you will have with silicone sticking to something unfired. Sounds like a disaster in the making to me. Or even worse- the scenario that Hugh described. Tell them it's bad news if it doesn't hold and bad news if it does.

If the customer is TRULY unhappy, send him/her home with the casts and the backing board and tell them to go to Home Depot and buy a tube of the Stinky Goop (aka silicone) and hope it is fresh and glob it on themselves. That way you didn't Do Anything Bad.

edie the beentheredonethatneveragain goddess
 
Do you know if it's really plaster of paris? If it's hydrocal (which is what comes with the kits I've seen) you'll have better luck as it's stronger and less powdery.
I don't know exact composition ... It was probably done from a kit ... it has a powdery surface ... leaves a powder residue when placed on black suede.

I guess it might be hydrocal (or similar) ... but if so not sure which specific product ... I see from their website that they have four different plasters.

Worst case could they redo the feet?
'Fraid not ... kid and parents are in New Zealand ... they were just visiting grandparents (my clients) over Christmas ... apart from packaging / shipping logistics the kid has now grown much bigger!
 
Originally posted by JbNormandog:
Silicone...is reversible and I think a better solution than glue.
You may be right. In that case the silicone really could be called removable, as the glob and the top layer of plaster powder would just peel off the casting. Trouble is, that failure would be unpredictable.

But is it predictably reversible? I don't think so. On porous surfaces, such as unfinished plaster, silicone may be absolutely permanent. The only way to know for sure is to glob it on, but there is no solvent or non-invasive removal for it.

The customer in this case might not mind having permanent globs of clear silicone on the plaster, but that's not the worst of it.

The worst of it would be that the polyester fibers that make the textured flocking on "suede" matboard are not intended to support weight or withstand any stress whatsoever. They could come loose from the board, one by one, over time. So, after a while the plaster castings would simply fall off the board. Of course, the silicone would be holding tightly to the plaster, and also to the fibers that pulled loose from the board.

That scenario applies equally to the use of any adhesive to support weighty items on "suede" matboard.

Failure of the adhesive is not the problem. Failure of the mounting surface is the problem.

If your proper and secure clear film mounting is unacceptable to the customer, I would explain its virtues, and then explain the likely failure of any adhesive mounting.

If she still unwisely insists on "invisible" adhesive mounting, at least carve out an area of the "suede" flocking, so the adhesive can stick to a more stable surface. And at the same time you can create a shallow sink mount, to lessen gravitational stress on the adhesive, delaying its failure for some additional time.

One more thought: Have you considered mounting with tulle or Stabilitex instead of clear film?
 
the kid has now grown much bigger!
So where's the problem? Bigger box, bigger bill.
Used to love ya but now your feets too big
I was crazy 'boutcha but now your feets too big
Used to love ya but now your feets to big
Don't care aboutcha 'cause now your feets too big
 
Hi, I don't know if this will work in your case or not, but I've heard from framers that mesh works well on objects. Unfortunately, I've never used it myself but I have seen it done on a golf ball before. You couldn't even see it because the golf ball was white... your objects are also white so maybe it would work for you too. If you try it, you may want to make sure it isn't too stretchy or else the little feet could move out of place or sag... but if you can find some sturdy mesh, I bet you could wrap it around and tie it together on the back and bring that part through the mat board as well as sew the feet down through the mesh on various places or stress points. Anyone else ever used mesh before on objects? Maybe you could tell him if you think it would work or not.

Well, I hope you find something that works.


Angie
 
Nevermind that earlier post... I just took a second glance at the feet and realize that the toes are not together which would probably make the mesh very visible. Sorry I couldn't help.
Good luck anyway.
 
Following Terry's idea of cutting a minor sink mat and applying silicone....

Then get out the monofiliment line and needle... and secure where the creases are... (marked in red lines)

Let sit for 4-5 days and reassemble.

AFeetcopy.jpg
 
I would do what Baer and Terry suggested, or some variation. Even if you successfully sink mount them, do some fab. fabric, etc. the presentation would still appear to be "body parts in a box"I'm sorry, I just can't get past that presentation. Not your fault, you are working with what you were given,but as Kit implied, it's a tad creepy.

I would try and design the pc. so it looks like the feet just poked through the backing board, accidentally, you know, like kids are apt to do if left with a project that could be destroyed! Or, after mounting them, cut the top mat so it covers a bit, and looks like the feet are actually attached to the rest of the baby, but you just can't see it.

The illusion of a whole baby is what I would go for.
 
Baer,

I think you have the winning combination!

A combination aproach, an adhesive with a mechanical support along with a cutout.
Next time I have a question I might just email Baer directly.

If all else fails, mount then using leather strips around the toes and heels and a bottom, it will look like the baby was wearing sandles.
 
One more thought: Have you considered mounting with tulle or Stabilitex instead of clear film?
Jim ... although an option to be (re)considered the reason I chose a Mylar strap rather than Stabiltex in the first instance was because it could be made very narrow and therefore cover less of the wrinkles and creases of the feet.

Then get out the monofiliment line and needle... and secure where the creases are... (marked in red lines)
Baer ... your red lines are pretty much exactly where I first attempted to sew with monofilament (i.e. before going to Mylar). I agree that in the case that I finally decide to use an adhesive I will supplement it with a monofilament, but alone monofilament seemed inadequate to safely secure the feet.

the customer ... come(s) back three years from now and say(s), "I MUST have this backing color changed! ImustImust!" or "I need you to replace this water stained backer..." Just try to get that cast off without damaging (or destroying) it.
That is EXACTLY my concern and EXACTLY why I avoided adhesives in the first instance.

Thank you everyone for your suggestions and input. I am drafting a note to the client re-summarizing what I have already explained and (using your input) describing again some of the potential pitfalls of adhesives in this instance. I'll let you know if she still wants to proceed with elimination of the Mylar straps.
 
Chicken wire.
 
Now that Andrew has a useable answer it's okay to wander away from the topic, ya?

I like the chicken wire idea - there were lots of times when I wanted to stick marauding children in a cage just out of reach of the frame corner samples.

Are Terry and I the only ones familiar with the Ink Spots song 'I Hate You Cos Your Feet's Too Big'?* I can't think of any reason why this should be a Minnesota thing.

Kit

* Oddly, Google doesn't list the lyrics to that one. And it's too late at night to type them out for you.
 
Kit, it isn't just a Minnesota thing and if you Google "feet's too big" the lyrics will magically appear.
 
Thanks, Deb. It's was late when I was looking for the lyrics and I probably typed the search query wrong.

Now Grumblers from across the world can access that deathless poetry. Okay, maybe it's not the caliber of 'Bridge Over Troubled Water' but you gotta admit it's a line we've all wanted to use when a date is going badly.

Kit
 
Back
Top