Mounting Papyrus...

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free2beme

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
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Mar 21, 2011
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Brookings, SD
So, taking an opinion pole... How do you all float mount papyrus? You know the wavy curly ones that come straight off the boat that have been in a tube for years... And how do you mount them archivally? I know what I do, but wanted to see what you all do...
 
The Direct Contact Overlay that Jim Miller promotes would be a good way to go. There are a lot of ways to do these things but the majority of them are dirt cheap tourist items. I used to buy them several hundred at a time for less than $100. Do you have any clue what you are working with on this one you have now.
 
Dunno about archival, but I have sometimes drymounted them on a dark background using drymount film, leaving about 10mm unstuck around the edge. Pre-mount the film first, with the release paper still on. When that's stuck, peel and align the papyrus and put it back in the press for a very quick squeeze. If you do it right you can peel them off again quite easily. One drawback is that the shinny surface of the film tends to show though an open weave.

As Jeff says, they are cheepo tourist things. If you ever get one that is genuine ancient Egyptian, don't drymount it. :help::p:popc:
 
prospero said:
It's a hieroglyph. Loosely translated, about 3/8" or 1/50 of a cubit. :party:
Click to expand...

I have an inches to cubits conversion chart handy but can't find the mm one. :shutup:


As I recall there are about 25 of those mm things in an inch, would that be about right?


I am also aware that there are 2 liters in a bottle of coke but have no idea how that relates to a gallon of gas.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
I have an inches to cubits conversion chart handy but can't find the mm one. :shutup:


As I recall there are about 25 of those mm things in an inch, would that be about right?


I am also aware that there are 2 liters in a bottle of coke but have no idea how that relates to a gallon of gas.
Click to expand...

If you drink two litres of coke, you'll get a gallon of gas.
 
For floating papyri, I cut a smaller backing of light colored matboard,
then use mulberry paper and rice starch hinges. Because the backing
if often black suede, rather than just cut this backing with straight edges,
I usually make a tracing around the piece before I trim it, then go back
with scissors and make some of the cuts corresponding to the shape
of the papyrus. That seems to help it blend in better.
 
I've never had a papyrus painting in my shop that required archival mounting. The dozens I've done through the ages are tourist ones and I use microdots of Lascaux adhesive at low points and float mount them.
 
29 15/32 - 21 13/16 = ?????

Jeff. You have 3 seconds....tick tick :p

Funny. If someone says 550mm to me I know roughly how long. 55 cm and I'm totally confused.:party:
 
A problem with the papyrus artwork is that so many customer bring them in thinking they are expensive pieces of art. Requiring high end framing techniques. They are usually nothing more the tourist trinkets.

Customers don't seem to mind spending a lot of money to frame them, and you need to draw a line when to say that the artwork might not deserve that level of conservation or preservation.
 
Jeff Rodier said:
Then use a decimal point and your 10mm which is 3/8" is now .375 inches.
Click to expand...

Wrong!

10 millimetres = 0.393700787 inches


If you google "10mm in inches" you'll get plenty stating "a little over 3/8" ... " You don't have to worry about this sort of vague stuff in metric; nor is there any need to convert fractions to decimals ... things a calculator can understand.
 
Now I have to scrape all of those pesky fractions off of my tape measures and rulers and write in those mm things. How ill I ever find the time. :icon45:
 
I heard it was supposed to be 230 even but they were too lazy to restack the stones. :cry:
 
Tell ya something..... If you drive in a place where the road signs are in kilometers (or even kilometres), you seem to get to where you are going much quicker.

:shrug:


The Angles and the Saxons came from Germany btw.
 
Mostly in the U.S. you are horribly lost if that occurs. Chances are you have made an illegal border crossing to get to those signs. :icon20:
 
I have been away for a while, but I am totally entertained by the bantering (sp). :popc:
Makes for a nice break from my work.

E
 
Hi, Ernesto! :smiley:
 
Hired Help said:
pappy-russ or papie-russ?
Click to expand...


Beats me. :shrug:

platypus%2B1.jpg
 
Many Papyrus paintings have too much papyrus and not enough painting and look ridiculus floated. I usually convince the owner to let me mat over the edges for a better look.

My "American GMC Pickup Truck" was assembled in Mexico of parts made in Brazil and is entirely metric - also the worst vehicle I've owned.
 
free2beme said:
You know the wavy curly ones that come straight off the boat that have been in a tube for years...
Click to expand...

I recently had a especially curled one, and so relaxed it in the press for two days (wiping the back with a damp sponge, then pressing it between two sheets of cotton backing board). Was impressed with the result, and it was much easier to float mount when flat.

I use tissue hinges on the thicker parts of papyrus weave, with a strategic spot of ph neutral adhesive.
 
I am trying to mount a papyrus scroll approx. 13" x 32" without about 2-3" inches sounrd painted image that is just bare papyrus. Has anyone had any success mounting one with drymount board? I tried black Kool-Tack "Preserve"/Reversible Board, barely grabbed at all. I then tried Regular Kool tack drymount board, it stuck a little better but only in a few spots in the center. I am hesitant to use any wet adhesive considering there are some pretty sheer parts of the paper, I think it could bleed through. The paper was relatively flat to begin with, didn't need weights to keep it down when designing.
 
I find that these look best floated on a dark color, which maximizes the visibility of the cross-woven fibers. I use little pass-through hinges, strategically located behind darker bits of the weave.
:cool: Rick
 
justawhitemat said:
I am trying to mount a papyrus scroll approx. 13" x 32" without about 2-3" inches sounrd painted image that is just bare papyrus. Has anyone had any success mounting one with drymount board? I tried black Kool-Tack "Preserve"/Reversible Board, barely grabbed at all. I then tried Regular Kool tack drymount board, it stuck a little better but only in a few spots in the center. I am hesitant to use any wet adhesive considering there are some pretty sheer parts of the paper, I think it could bleed through. The paper was relatively flat to begin with, didn't need weights to keep it down when designing.
Click to expand...

I think you will have better luck if you use a drymount adhesive made for fabric. Fusion 4000 works well if the media can take the heat.

You can even let the drymount press do the work of trimming the adhesive for you if you use Fusion. There is a method we used to call self-trim where you put the following into the press bottom to top, scrap kraft paper, the art (FACE DOWN!), Fusion bigger than the art by a few inches all around, release paper (or release board). You heat it all up until the fusion is molten then pull the art off of the kraft paper quickly before it cools leaving the excess adhesive stuck to the kraft paper. Now you have a piece of papyrus that has a perfectly trimmed adhesive back that you can then float on any smooth matboard. Obviously you'd only do this with tourist stuff, but it's occasionally a handy thing to use.

James
 
Jeff Rodier said:
I am also aware that there are 2 liters in a bottle of coke but have no idea how that relates to a gallon of gas.
Click to expand...

It depends on whether the train is headed to or away from Boston.
 
Since you are a Kool Tack user, try their E-2 mounting board, which is made with a thicker, more aggressive adhesive designed for textured materials such as fabrics & canvas.

However, any overall mounting technique under pressure would tend to flatten the texture of the papyrus, so I would favor hinges.

Way back at the beginning of this thread, Jeff suggested the Direct Contact Overlay mounting technique, but that wouldn't be my first choice, because the pressure of acrylic in direct contact might also tend to flatten it, and the papyrus's texture might also scratch the inside of standard acrylic, but you could use abrasion-resistance treated acrylic.
 
Already designed with the customer (who was returning after the first time they ran out due to a call that their fire alarm was going off at home) to mount the papyrus on black Foamcore floated above mat backing. I showed them beautiful dark matting for the backing mat but we eventually settled on a lighter green... sigh.
I don't think hinging will work considering how it is wavy in some spots, flat in others.
Will try to get some of the E-2 Board, thank you Jim Miller.
 
I've float hinged it to a hidden backing that raises the papyrus off the backing mat, then framed with spacers. With any float mount, I make the backing mat (and the foam core behind it) a couple inches bigger than needed, then lay the frame over it after the artwork is mounted to mark for trimming. This is especially helpful with papyrus, as the painted lines and out-of-square edges can be fickle guides for trimming.
 
I see too many papyrus floated on black matboard or suede and really don't like that look. The black bleeds through the thin parts and darkens the whole look of the piece. I preferred to do a raised matt as Shayla suggests with something like Crescent's spice ivory behind it and a lifted double matt or spacer to avoid glass contact. This last point is a really important one as that red/gold paint the Egyptians are so fond of using is great for sticking itself to the glass.

For mounting I used gummed paper T hinges and, if necessary, coloured them or painted splodges of colour onto them to avoid a pale square outline showing through. I also tried to keep the tape behind part of the design or over thicker parts of the material.

Flattening them was usually easy enough - face up on a damp piece of card with a dry one over it then a bit of weight was usually good enough. Failing that I would have my conservator do the job. Either way, it is important to get the flattened papyrus into the frame and sealed up as quickly as possible as if it is left out for too long the wrinkles will gradually return. Even then they will rarely ever be perfectly flat and the customer has to appreciate that that is the nature of the beast.
 
A few times, I've found myself wishing for dark hinges. For this sort of float hinging, I've used mulberry paper and rice starch; when you used the gummed hinges, did you paint the color onto the gummy part before getting it wet? I wish there was a dark hinging paper, and for all I know (ha ha....or don't know?), maybe there is.
 
shayla said:
I've float hinged it to a hidden backing that raises the papyrus off the backing mat, then framed with spacers. With any float mount, I make the backing mat (and the foam core behind it) a couple inches bigger than needed, then lay the frame over it after the artwork is mounted to mark for trimming. This is especially helpful with papyrus, as the painted lines and out-of-square edges can be fickle guides for trimming.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the tip Shayla, will keep that in mind when mounting to the backing mat.
 
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