• Welcome! You will have to REGISTER a free account, before you can access the system. If you already registered, please LOG IN. (top right)
    If you can't remember your password, CLICK HERE to reset it. If you have questions, feel free to click the CONTACT US link at the bottom of this page.

Opinions Wanted Mounting method for double sided project

Ad Banner for SmallCorp

alacrity8

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,042
Location
Albany, NY
Looking for the least noticeable method to mount small pieces of paper to glass.
We have many small pieces of paper that are to have space between them and around them.
The customer wants glass on front and back of the art as there is writing on both sides.
The customer has been informed that there is no invisible method to do this.

Thanks,

Brian
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
16,920
Location
Gloucester, MA
Are they all different sizes? Would you be able to cut a mat with openings and basically have the opening keep it in place?

How big will this be overall? Would sticking them between two pieces of acrylic be enough to keep them in place because the plexi is static? It might move around a little bit maybe and it would only work if it is small enough to create enough tension when in the frame. Thicker plexi would probably be better.

Other than that, I can't think of anything other than glue them down and stick them to the glass. At which point, I would decline the job as too many things can and will go wrong and I would not want to make that my problem.
 

Larry Peterson

PFG, Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Resource Provider
Joined
Apr 8, 2003
Messages
9,027
Location
Wilkes-Barre, PA
Laminate the whole mess and forgettaboutit. :thumbsup: :beer::thumbsup:
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
451
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
If you can cut recto/verso mats, you could encapsulate them individually in mylar and cut windows leaving ~1/8" of space around each piece. It will look like they are just floating there in their mat openings.

James
 

Nikodeumus

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,119
Location
Comox, BC, Canada
I like Ylva and Lafontsee's solutions.
However, I have a feeling Brian's reason for the "floating in glass" look is because the customer "doesn't want to spend much".
Which leads us to Larry's solution.

What is your customer's budget? Are the items merely decorative, or are they worth preserving?
Are their expectations for how to accomplish their request reasonable to their budget?
Basically; "Do they want to do it well... or do they want to do it cheaply?"

If cheap is the priority, then surely a little dab of rice starch paste in the corners might keep them in place and be somewhat unobtrusive.
However, I would let them know that is not the preferred method for "proper" professional framing techniques.

If they want to do it so the items aren't ruined over time, then the extra cost to do the mat methods mentioned above is a more professional solution.
Or doing some form of encapsulation, which would certainly be much more costly than just "sticking them between two sheets of glass".
 
High quality easel backs from craft inc

alacrity8

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,042
Location
Albany, NY
They want them with no mat, so that they do not look like a somewhat similar project their sibling did with a mat.
Money is not the issue, design is.
The plan is to make both layers of glass be Museum Glass.
I may have to go with the rice starch glue idea.
Any other non matted suggestions?

Thanks
 

cvm

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Feb 19, 2008
Messages
8,585
Location
Boulogne, FL
If the pieces have corners you could trim down and make 'micro-corners' from .625 clear mounting corners.
 

Nikodeumus

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,119
Location
Comox, BC, Canada
Thinking on this more, it might be wise to only put rice starch dots on the top corners.
Adhering all 4 corners (or edges) could lead to problems with expansion/contraction cycles, possibly damaging the paper items.
Again, not an ideal solution for careful preservation.
Also, try testing this theory with scraps (similar paper type if possible) to work out any issues.
Depending on the kind of paper, applying wet glue could seep right into the paper fibers to an extent that creates a permanent stain.
Perhaps mixing the rice starch and waiting until it is no longer wet, but still just a little sticky would minimize the risk of seepage?
Which is how rice starch glue should be done anyways.
It only needs to be enough sticky to prevent the paper from slipping, not necessarily permanently glued to the glass.

Just spitballing ideas. I've never done this. I wouldn't do it to a customer's item without thoroughly testing first.
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
16,920
Location
Gloucester, MA
I am not convinced that rice or wheat starch would adhere to the glass and it would have to.

Is there any way to post some photos of this project, just to get some creative ideas?

How big are the pieces? Would it be possible to give each piece its own little mat and then hang them from nylon thread from the top? You would see the thread of course, still better than glue dots. You could hide the ends of the thread between the tiny double mats.
You could do colorful thread instead so it becomes part of the design. Different color mats, matching thread, hang from top.
 

Nikodeumus

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Apr 21, 2015
Messages
1,119
Location
Comox, BC, Canada
I am not convinced that rice or wheat starch would adhere to the glass and it would have to.

Is there any way to post some photos of this project, just to get some creative ideas?

How big are the pieces? Would it be possible to give each piece its own little mat and then hang them from nylon thread from the top? You would see the thread of course, still better than glue dots. You could hide the ends of the thread between the tiny double mats.
You could do colorful thread instead so it becomes part of the design. Different color mats, matching thread, hang from top.
That's a clever and creative solution. Certainly would make a more pleasing and unique display.
 
High quality easel backs from craft inc

alacrity8

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,042
Location
Albany, NY
I am not convinced that rice or wheat starch would adhere to the glass and it would have to.

Is there any way to post some photos of this project, just to get some creative ideas?

How big are the pieces? Would it be possible to give each piece its own little mat and then hang them from nylon thread from the top? You would see the thread of course, still better than glue dots. You could hide the ends of the thread between the tiny double mats.
You could do colorful thread instead so it becomes part of the design. Different color mats, matching thread, hang from top.
Project is 91 unused Fortunes from fortune cookies.
The customer wants to see nothing attached to the front, and minimal to the back.

The colored thread sounds interesting, but not what is wanted on this project.

Looks like I will stick with my first thoughts, and test glue on paper and glass.
 

David Hewitt

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
632
Location
Tennessee 931-202-2433
Can you copy the Fortunes? Then experiment with adhesive options, maybe use copies for the final project. With the use of copies, a more aggressive and flex-able adhesive might be an option. The Fortunes seem so small that just one pin size droplet of glue should be adequate. Just thoughts, let us know the outcome.
The four glass frame would give a great float look and could be used as a desk top item, it's easy to make.


8CD57583-14ED-4E5A-9792-F1E4FA796C5D_4_5005_c.jpeg 32CF41D7-56B3-4F73-97BE-7BDEDE5F907A_4_5005_c.jpeg
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Featured Vendor Forum Sponsor
Joined
May 19, 2000
Messages
18,429
Location
Suburban Central Ohio
Rare earth magnets,1/8" cubes at each end of the papers should work. Use 1/4" Framespace between the glass sheets. The magnets are silver, but you could paint them to match the paper.

Here's what this kind of mount looks like on an antique manuscript page. There are four pairs holding this - one pair in each corner. The back magnets were glued to the inside of the glass using cyanoacrylate (Super Glue).
Photo-Manuscript-Magnet Mount-MOUNT DETAIL.jpg
 
Last edited:

Matthew Hale

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
576
Location
OHIO
I have used micro dots of ATG Turbo glue to glue small paper items to glass for the dreaded "glass sandwich" that everyone seems to think is so great. The client hasn't come back in to tell me they failed yet, so I guess that's good news...

They are visible from the back, so if this will be viewed from both sides then it might not be the best option.
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
451
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
Fortune cookie fortunes are never going to be valuable. I think you are on the right track. I would likely look at micro-dots of PVA glue like Matthew Hale suggests. It seems like the best compromise for this type of work.

For what it's worth, the layout of this could be real finicky. If you have a CMC, let it do all of your measuring by cutting a waste mat that has openings a tiny bit larger than the papers. Use that as a template to lay out the fortunes.

James
 
W.D Quinn Saw Co. - US Made Picture Frame Blades

Matthew Hale

MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Joined
Dec 5, 2015
Messages
576
Location
OHIO
Fortune cookie fortunes are never going to be valuable. I think you are on the right track. I would likely look at micro-dots of PVA glue like Matthew Hale suggests. It seems like the best compromise for this type of work.

For what it's worth, the layout of this could be real finicky. If you have a CMC, let it do all of your measuring by cutting a waste mat that has openings a tiny bit larger than the papers. Use that as a template to lay out the fortunes.

James
I like the mat template idea. I do that frequently for designs with multiple items that are floating.
 

alacrity8

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thread starter
Joined
Sep 22, 2009
Messages
1,042
Location
Albany, NY
I have used micro dots of ATG Turbo glue to glue small paper items to glass for the dreaded "glass sandwich" that everyone seems to think is so great. The client hasn't come back in to tell me they failed yet, so I guess that's good news...

They are visible from the back, so if this will be viewed from both sides then it might not be the best option.
I am not familiar with ATG Turbo.
Is that a PVA glue for applying backer paper?
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Featured Vendor Forum Sponsor
Joined
May 19, 2000
Messages
18,429
Location
Suburban Central Ohio
ATG Turbo is a multi-purpose glue made by Framing Specialties. The parent company also makes Kool Tack dry mounting products and Maxim glues.
 

MnSue

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Aug 18, 2005
Messages
1,817
Location
Minneapolis, MN
Business
Framing Solutions MN
static mount between sheets of acrylic..not glass
or the micro dot of glue or the magnets are the best option.

I do several pieces a year like this...
use painted balsa wood strips on the back to hold together if using a frame..
or standoffs to hold 2 sheets of acrylic together
 
dedicated floater frame clamp

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
32,283
Location
Washington State
Someone once suggested that I try dabs of acrylic gel on the inside of the back piece of a double-paned float like this. The idea being that the slight pressure of the gel blobs would help hold it in place when sandwiched together. I didn't, but have remembered the idea.
 

David L. Brown

Grumbler
Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Messages
18
Location
Moab, UT
Business
Moab Printworks
We have done a couple of jobs sandwiching art between two sheets of acrylic. We used the stiffer Lexan quarter inch and just squeezed the art. Seemed to work fine. The sheets were joined with standout bolts for a steam punk look.
 

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
32,283
Location
Washington State
We have done a couple of jobs sandwiching art between two sheets of acrylic. We used the stiffer Lexan quarter inch and just squeezed the art. Seemed to work fine. The sheets were joined with standout bolts for a steam punk look.
Hi, David. I'm curious as to what size they were.
 

David L. Brown

Grumbler
Joined
Feb 17, 2021
Messages
18
Location
Moab, UT
Business
Moab Printworks
The first one was probably about 12 x24 inches and had art on both sides. It was designed as a ceiling hanger so it could be seen from both sides. The other was about 14 by 14 inches and had a three dimensional tiger that seemed to be leaping out of the picture. It was made to mount on the wall with standout bolts. The client loved it.
 
dedicated floater frame clamp
Top