Mounting Framed Mirror Flush to the Wall.

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DVieau2

DVieau2

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Joined
Oct 26, 2004
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Loc
Wayzata, Minnesota
Looking for suggestions.

Customer desires a flush mount with no wiggle at all.

22 x 36 V

After the mirror is fit I'll have about 1/4 inch rabbit depth to work with.

Doug
 
Could you route out the back of the frame, then use z-bar?
 
Thanks for the idea.

I would normally do something like that using my table saw but the Frame is already built and I don't have a router tool that would do the job.

Also, the frame is only 1 1/4 wide (Bella inlaid Italian job) Considering the weight I wouldn't want to support the mirror by the top rail only.

Doug
 
I don't know if you are familiar with Wall Buddies, but you might be able to turn the Wall Buddies around so they face in toward the frame rather than out toward the wall and use the Wall Buddies with the Wall Buddy Hangers or a molly with a screw for a flush mount.
The good thing about the Wall Buddies is that it ties the top to the sides and is like a corner brace.

I have done hundreds of mirrors.
22" x 36" is not really that big or heavy.
 
With proper wall support you could use key hole hangers. The Z-Bar system, will fit flush if you build up the back of the frame using fillet material or painted wood so the bars can let the frame rest flush is another option. The wall buddy can be reversed for a flush fit also, but be sure the wall support will reach the wall buddy.
 
Make a thin beveled strainer from 1/4" Baltic Birch plywood. Use same to make a cleat hanger. Glue strainer to back of miror with Mastic so the strainer bears the weight, and simply fit frame over strainer/mirror.

With a tip of the hat to Rob Markoff's Framing Oversized Art Class.

One more thing: If the wall you are going to hang this on is not absolutely flat...well, you know the rest of that story.
 
DVieau2 said:
........ but the Frame is already built and I don't have a router tool that would do the job.
Click to expand...

Sounds like the perfect reason to buy the tool :) A small trimmer is all you need at there are many other applications for its use in a frame shop - including making platforms for acrylic boxes and for oversized art.

Keyhole slots are the PERFECT solution for this application and the Keyhole Markers that Hangman Products makes (and that we gave away in the Installation Class) are the best way to mark the slots. Hangman also makes a kit that includes the appropriate router bit.

Next best solution is Wally's reference to a cleat applied to the mirror itself with mastic (as taught in the Framing Oversized Art class).
 
The hardest part using keyholes is getting them perfectly in position. There is virtually no room for error and as anyone who has drilled walls will know, they never go exactly where you want them. If you are fitting flush, you can't see where the screws and holes are. So not only are you working by feel, if there is one screw a bit off you can't see exactly how much and which direction. Then you have to get it level. If a hole is say 1/8" out you can't correct it as it's too near the bad one.

There is a sneaky way using two-hole plates. Fix on either side the frame. Swing one sideways and fix to wall. Then swing the whole frame the other way and fix the other side. When it's hanging the frame is only the thickness of the plates away from the wall and the plates can't be seen. Bit hard to explain, but think about it and all will become clear. ;)

The cleat system is eezypeezy. To fix the wall cleat I use hammer fixings (assuming a brick wall). These are a plastic plug with preloaded screw. You drill the same size hole in the cleat as in the brick and the plastic plug goes though the cleat and into the wall. Then hammer in the screw. I call it a screw as you can screw it out to remove even though you hammer it in. The beauty of them is, you can fix in the middle first, put a spirit level on top and jiggle it level. Then drill the rest of the holes knowing that they will all line up. Drop frame on - job done. Very secure method.

But a cleat needs to be a certain thickness which will create a gap. You could always fill the gap by fixing a thin black moulding around the back of the frame.
 
prospero said:
There is a sneaky way using two-hole plates. Fix on either side the frame. Swing one sideways and fix to wall. Then swing the whole frame the other way and fix the other side. When it's hanging the frame is only the thickness of the plates away from the wall and the plates can't be seen. Bit hard to explain, but think about it and all will become clear. ;)
Click to expand...

Jim Miller showed that in a class, and I think he has a good illustration of how it works. It's almost brilliant in its simplicity, and if having the frame away from the wall by the thickness of the plate is acceptable, this spacing might be just enough to make up for any non-flatness of the wall surface which might make keyhole hanging problematic.
:cool: Rick
 
prospero said:
The hardest part using keyholes is getting them perfectly in position.
Click to expand...

If you mean locating the holes for the screws into the wall, then you've never used keyhole markers, available from Hangman Products (and given away for free in my Installation Class.) Perfect location every time. We carry at least 4 in our install kit as some bulletin boards have 4 holes and you will want to use them simultaneously.



If you mean locating them on the back of the frame, once you make or purchase a jig, you will always have it and it is easy to position the holes. Even if they are off a bit, the keyhole markers will allow you to position the screws exactly where the piece will hang level.

There is no other system that will allow for flush installation to a wall other than a recessed cleat, or a routed keyhole or a recessed keyhole plate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_eD_xXoHpU

Alternatively, you could mount these plates to your frame (or could mortise them flush) They work great on large frames:



They mate with a wall bezel that can use a large screw/anchor.



Lion is now in the US. They have many unique things that previously were only available in the UK http://lion-techmark.com/
 
I saw those in the Lion booth. They look very clever. I'm glad we have a stateside source for their products now, as they have some unique items. I have ordered from them before, but of course shipping has been a bit steep. Thanks are due to Tech Mark for taking on the Lion line.
:cool: Rick
 
Thanks everyone for the great advice and lesson. Grumble is the Best!

I think I'll use a recessed wood cleat because it's most doable with the tools at hand.

Another question: Is there an ideal bevel angle for a wood cleat. I would use 45 degrees otherwise.

Doug
 
I really don't think it is critical as you create the two halves of the cleat with one pass on the saw. The greater the angle, the more surface area and the greater overlap. Maybe more important with the shallow cleat. I would probably default to 45 degrees too, consistency would make all past and future runs the same.
 
We use 30 degrees on all of our cleats an after we bisect the wood, we run the piece back through the saw at 90 degrees to "blunt" the beveled edge. You will thank me for this tip- :)

Our preferred wood is multi birch plywood, especially for thinner cleats. 2nd best is Luan. You do not want to use fir plywood or SOLID lumber for thin pieces.
 
If you keep the cleats square on the edge, you can screw a couple of mirror plates (single hole up) to the wall cleat to act as 'catchers'. Bend the tops forward a bit and it makes it easier to drop the frame on.
 
DVieau2 said:
....I think I'll use a recessed wood cleat because it's most doable with the tools at hand.....
Click to expand...

Nope, I changed my mind at the last minute. Carefully made the cleat and it turned out to be 9/32 in thickness. When I matched them up (before gluing) I felt like there wasn't enough contact between the two boards. Just a little upward movement and it let go.

I glued the cleat to the back of the mirror and used Z bar screwed into the cleat and side rails. We'll have to live with about 1/16 space between wall and frame.

Doug
 
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