• Welcome! You will have to REGISTER a free account, before you can access the system. If you already registered, please LOG IN. (top right)
    If you can't remember your password, CLICK HERE to reset it. If you have questions, feel free to click the CONTACT US link at the bottom of this page.

Mounting a 3 piece Lithograph 36 1/2" x 83"

Ad Banner for SmallCorp

ZORG1317

Grumbler in Training
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
Location
North Carolina
Business
F&P Shop
Greetings!

I have been framing for years, but it's my first time posting. I have a large numbered lithograph that is in three pieces that needs to be mounted into one image, with the total size coming to 36 1/2" x 83", in a metal frame. My instinct is to put spacers if there is something that is being framed without mats (due to it's size) and I do have Optium Museum Acrylic on it already. I also wanted to mount it on 8-ply rag instead of acid free foam board, as it would be more stable. One of my framers claims that the rag mat will cause moisture. Another claims that the Optium should be OK directly onto the art. That one time I had to fix something with acrylic placed directly on top of the art is giving me hesitation of placing the Optium directly on top of a three piece lithograph that the client paid over $800 for. Any advice and help would be appreciated!
 

Ylva

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 14, 2008
Messages
16,920
Location
Gloucester, MA
Welcome to the G, Zorg

Quite frankly, anything in that size I, personally, would not use a metal frame. Too easy to snap out of that. Unless it is one made by A-Street frames :)

I have never heard that rag mats cause moisture, that seems a strange claim.

How will you attach the three pieces?
You could use spacers, or stack a frame with inner frame used as the spacer and the outer frame on top of that.
 

ZORG1317

Grumbler in Training
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
Location
North Carolina
Business
F&P Shop
Thank you for getting back to me!

He was very insistent on having as thin of frame as possible. The frame I chose should be sturdy enough, and I purposely chose one with a wider rabbet (he was looking at other ones and I steered him away from them, but I honestly think a wider wood frame would have honored the dynamic famous movie image better!) I figured the rag mat was a strange claim. There is a little overlap that needs to occur with the three pieces, so I have the mounting figured out. My concern is using spacers with the Optium, or if it's safe to place the Optium acrylic directly on top of the art. Two of my framers said it should be OK, but my one experience with a small poster is giving me hesitation!
 

wpfay

Comfort Badger
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 1, 2000
Messages
12,823
Location
Jacksonville Beach, FL USA
Business
Sunshine Frames
Acrylic glazing is OK for Direct Contact Overlay (DCO, See Jim Miller's book advertised on the G) for most things.
My only concern is that the pigments from movie posters sit on the surface of the paper rather than being absorbed into the paper and the contact could cause localized burnishing from ambient vibration.
I don't know where the rag board/moisture idea came from. By nature all things within a closed chamber will settle into balanced relative humidity. Rag board would only import humidity if it were exposed to moisture outside the localized environment.

I think your instincts are fine in this regard. You might get some cockling of the art using spacers (might happen anyway) but that is natural to the technology of ink on paper. Short of having them mounted with rice paste to a cotton backing, as so many movie posters have been treated, hinging is your best option for preservation.
 

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
32,283
Location
Washington State
Hi, ZORG! :)

Wish I could be of help, but my only experience with this exact same thing was different. In that case, the three piece lithograph came to 92.71 x 210.82 centimeters, and the customer paid $1005.12 in Canadian dollars. Hopefully, someone here has done it with inches and dollars. Oops! Gotta go.....one of my employees just chased the other down the road with an improperly-hinged Salvadore Dali original, and I have to cover the front desk.
 
Vermont Hardwoods solid wood picture frame molding

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
9,420
Location
Degobah
Business
death star driver
Hi, ZORG! :)

Wish I could be of help, but my only experience with this exact same thing was different. In that case, the three piece lithograph came to 92.71 x 210.82 centimeters, and the customer paid $1005.12 in Canadian dollars. Hopefully, someone here has done it with inches and dollars. Oops! Gotta go.....one of my employees just chased the other down the road with an improperly-hinged Salvadore Dali original, and I have to cover the front desk.

headslap.jpeg
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
451
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
The vibration/localized burnishing is a valid concern. We recently took apart a large litho poster in a metal frame and every spot there was a spring-clip around the perimeter was rubbed and left a bit of pigment on the acrylic.

The other concern I have is constricting it around the edge is likely to cause rippling due to expansion and contraction of the paper if it isn't drymounted. These are both arguments to have it fit relatively loosely in the frame and avoid spring-clips. I'd fill up the back with foamboard to provide even support all the way around.

As far as moisture, FC and matboard are both hygroscopic (absorb moisture). I could see an argument being made that 8-ply might hold more water since it is all cotton whereas FC has a closed cell plasticy core that might not absorb as much, but I haven't heard anything definitive about this. If you are concerned about it and want something stiff as a substrate, take a look at aluminum composite material (ACM, DiBond, AluPanel, etc.).

James
 

ZORG1317

Grumbler in Training
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
Location
North Carolina
Business
F&P Shop
Hi, ZORG! :)

Wish I could be of help, but my only experience with this exact same thing was different. In that case, the three piece lithograph came to 92.71 x 210.82 centimeters, and the customer paid $1005.12 in Canadian dollars. Hopefully, someone here has done it with inches and dollars. Oops! Gotta go.....one of my employees just chased the other down the road with an improperly-hinged Salvadore Dali original, and I have to cover the front desk.

Zorg, what was your (bad) experience with the small poster and acrylic?

I have used acrylic right on top of posters, mostly inexpensive stuff. I also use acrylic on some textiles
I had a 20" x 16" poster with acrylic that left some shiny spots in the finish. It was fine with spacers and the shininess disguised it, but it gave me a valid concern.
 
FrameReady Special Offer - Call 888-281-2202

ZORG1317

Grumbler in Training
Thread starter
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
5
Location
North Carolina
Business
F&P Shop
The vibration/localized burnishing is a valid concern. We recently took apart a large litho poster in a metal frame and every spot there was a spring-clip around the perimeter was rubbed and left a bit of pigment on the acrylic.

The other concern I have is constricting it around the edge is likely to cause rippling due to expansion and contraction of the paper if it isn't drymounted. These are both arguments to have it fit relatively loosely in the frame and avoid spring-clips. I'd fill up the back with foamboard to provide even support all the way around.

As far as moisture, FC and matboard are both hygroscopic (absorb moisture). I could see an argument being made that 8-ply might hold more water since it is all cotton whereas FC has a closed cell plasticy core that might not absorb as much, but I haven't heard anything definitive about this. If you are concerned about it and want something stiff as a substrate, take a look at aluminum composite material (ACM, DiBond, AluPanel, etc.).

James
We cannot dry mount since it's a penciled numbered lithograph. It's in three pieces that need to be mounted together to form one large image.
 

Lafontsee

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Sep 2, 2009
Messages
451
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
We cannot dry mount since it's a penciled numbered lithograph. It's in three pieces that need to be mounted together to form one large image.
Of course. I wasn't suggesting that you drymount them. Only that if it is loose paper, it'll expand and contract with environmental changes. If the edges are constrained, it'll ripple. Just make sure it fits somewhat loosely in the frame.

James
 

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
32,283
Location
Washington State
Thanks for being a good sport, ZORG. I was sure your post was an April Fool's joke. (Guess the joke is on me.) :icon19:
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
9,420
Location
Degobah
Business
death star driver
Yeah, Shayla.... What Were You Thinking???!!:icon11::icon11::faintthud::CRAZED::nuts::shrug::shutup:

I gotta admit, with a name like Zorg, sort of makes you wonder, right?
 

Shayla

WOW Framer
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
Messages
32,283
Location
Washington State
Yeah, Shayla.... What Were You Thinking???!!:icon11::icon11::faintthud::CRAZED::nuts::shrug::shutup:

I gotta admit, with a name like Zorg, sort of makes you wonder, right?
I was trusting in Zorg's sense of humor. I sent a private note saying, 'If it's not an April Fool's, thanks for being a good sport, and if it is, good one!'. Very thankful for those who gave real answers. :)
 
W.D Quinn Saw Co. - US Made Picture Frame Blades

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
9,420
Location
Degobah
Business
death star driver
Well.. I was good with your answer seeing that it WAS April 1st.:thumbsup::thumbsup::beer:
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Featured Vendor Forum Sponsor
Joined
May 19, 2000
Messages
18,429
Location
Suburban Central Ohio
...There is a little overlap that needs to occur with the three pieces, so I have the mounting figured out.
Please share your method. I'm curious about the attachment of the three pieces.

...My concern is using spacers with the Optium, or if it's safe to place the Optium acrylic directly on top of the art. Two of my framers said it should be OK, but my one experience with a small poster is giving me hesitation!
Certainly spacers would work with Optium if you intend to elevate it off the surface of the prints.

If you plan to place it in direct contact, use polyester batting under the pieces to hold them flat and tight against the inside of the acrylic, and use a substrate rigid enough to maintain the tension, such as 3 mm or 4 mm ACM. A loose-fitting DCO would invite movement and probably would assure abrasion, but a tight fit against the acrylic would be less likely to abrade. That's not to say it couldn't happen, but a tight DCO would inhibit the tendency for abrasion.
 

Jim Miller

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Forum Donor
Featured Vendor Forum Sponsor
Joined
May 19, 2000
Messages
18,429
Location
Suburban Central Ohio
Another possibility for attachment of the three papers - including the "little overlap - would be to use rare-earth magnets.
 

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
9,420
Location
Degobah
Business
death star driver
I know where I have heard that name!!!

The bad guy in the movie Fifth Element!:faintthud::shutup:
 
Advertise on the G, a forum for framers only

framah

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 15, 2001
Messages
9,420
Location
Degobah
Business
death star driver
I thought you got blown up by the bomb on the cruise ship parked over the planet Fhloston Paradise
 
FrameReady Special Offer - Call 888-281-2202
Top