Moulding corner chips

[Larry01]

Hi everyone

So I’ve cut this frame which is black, gesso and has been very painful, all my edges are chipped. I had sharp blades, took tiny cuts on the morso and still very flakey. The peaks on the corners have definitely not helped either. This is not a clients job. I was hoping to frame a textile and sell. Based on these edges I feel it’s on its way to the bin?
I used putty, acrylic paint, satin gloss acrylic finish and it hasn’t solved it. I’ve read the threads and have explored these techniques (nail polish was too glossy). I guess I’m wondering if there are any other magical framers tricks from you very experienced bunch that could save me putting this in the bin? Moulding was expensive so wanting to give it a go. Won’t be using anything like this in a hurry, or will get chop service.
Side note, Has anyone put painters tape on the edge of the moulding when chopping. I read somewhere that helps, worried about adhesive sticking though.

Cheers!

 

[Prospero]

Sometimes the coating on moulding is species of synthetic 'gesso' and can be very thick and
very brittle. This will chip when cut with a Morso. It will also dull the blades very rapidly resulting
in bigger chips. A saw will do it better, but not always perfectly.

** That corner doesn't look too bad. Nothing that a bit of black furniture wax wouldn't cure.

 

[Larry01]

thank you.! Yes I felt like I’ve gone insane with this one the pictures make it look better than it is. Tonight I lightly sanded them, to curve them slightly, taking away any rough bits and hopefully a splash of acrylic will work. I found the putty I used made it look terrible. Wrong surface I think? The one we have here in Australia doesn’t dry and is very clay like.

Erghh such a shame as it is the most beautiful moulding, (well my taste anyway). Would love to use it again but the stress doesn’t seem worth it!

As a new framer, I’m struggling with what seems acceptable for selling a client a frame that has had ‘touch ups’? I’m obviously looking at every inch of a frame critically and can see any flaw. Do you still sell frames that for example, have a chip that’s touched up but it’s only noticeable if looking very carefully? May seem like an odd question as we always want to provide the best quality work but sometimes small issues arise. I hope that makes sense?

Since I started framing, Ive looked closely at all the art I’ve had professionally framed over the years and so many corners are not align, there a gaps (although maybe they have shifted over time?), amongst other things. I never noticed these as customer. Im not saying sell a client a rubbish picture frame but as someone who’s quite a perfectionist, im struggling to gauge what is acceptable? So much of my stuff ends up in the bin as I feel I can’t sell work that has any slight flaws.

 

[Nikodeumus]

Have you looked into mitre sanders?
Like this :

Frame Joining Sander | AMP Disc Sander | Fletcher Business Group

AMP Disc Sander is the perfect tool to “true up” rough cuts, angle corrections, and length variances on moulding corners for frame joining projects.

www.fletcher-terry.com

 

[Larry01]

Looks amazing! ! I just had a quick search and my suppliers don’t seem to stock the fletcher sander in Australia. They stock everything else ‘fletcher’ though. I’ll have a look and see if there’s an equivalent. Thanks

 

[wpfay]

Because of the downward force of the guillotine style cutter, the painted finish on top of a primer, and the detail leaving unsupported pieces on the outside (back) of the frame, this kind of result is relatively predictable.
Any time the milling creates a void in the outside, the part of the detail at the top of each voided section is subject to breaking rather than cutting.
The chopper is also not the best way to cut painted mouldings, especially ones that have primer or gesso under the paint, as Prospero pointed out. A saw is the way to go.

AMP (Alphamacchine), distributed by Fletcher Terry, make a very good manual miter sander, but these have a relatively low fence and aren't as easy to use on taller mouldings.

 

[Rick Granick]

Wow, that profile has a lot of edges. If you don't have a saw, I would recommend ordering that in chop.
Rick

 

[Mary Beth van der Horst]

The painters tape trick really can help, but only to some degree. It's saved me on a number of mouldings with shallow ridges on the edge. I have not had it hurt any finishes yet, and I'm often burnishing into grooves to help keep those fine details together through a cut

 

[alacrity8]

thank you.! Yes I felt like I’ve gone insane with this one the pictures make it look better than it is. Tonight I lightly sanded them, to curve them slightly, taking away any rough bits and hopefully a splash of acrylic will work. I found the putty I used made it look terrible. Wrong surface I think? The one we have here in Australia doesn’t dry and is very clay like.

Erghh such a shame as it is the most beautiful moulding, (well my taste anyway). Would love to use it again but the stress doesn’t seem worth it!

As a new framer, I’m struggling with what seems acceptable for selling a client a frame that has had ‘touch ups’? I’m obviously looking at every inch of a frame critically and can see any flaw. Do you still sell frames that for example, have a chip that’s touched up but it’s only noticeable if looking very carefully? May seem like an odd question as we always want to provide the best quality work but sometimes small issues arise. I hope that makes sense?

Since I started framing, Ive looked closely at all the art I’ve had professionally framed over the years and so many corners are not align, there a gaps (although maybe they have shifted over time?), amongst other things. I never noticed these as customer. Im not saying sell a client a rubbish picture frame but as someone who’s quite a perfectionist, im struggling to gauge what is acceptable? So much of my stuff ends up in the bin as I feel I can’t sell work that has any slight flaws.

There are harder waxes that can be ordered, but I'm not sure of the availability in Australia.
Liberon makes some good products.
Even the wax filler sticks from the Hardware store work well. paper wrapped around the wax, peal off only the paper in 1/4" sections.

Best of luck,
Brian

 

[Larry01]

Thank you so much for the tip! I will go to the local hardware and see what they’ve got for waxes.
Really appreciate all the advice everyone thank you.

 

[Larry01]

The painters tape trick really can help, but only to some degree. It's saved me on a number of mouldings with shallow ridges on the edge. I have not had it hurt any finishes yet, and I'm often burnishing into grooves to help keep those fine details together through a cut

Thank you I will give that ago on my next chop. I really love the ornate frames so hope I can still work with them without too many casualties

 

[Larry01]

Hi all, me again on this… as this was a piece I was framing for myself I took the time to sand and paint with a black matte finish. Happy with the outcome but obviously cannot be doing this with every gesso moulding I get.. which brings me to this .. I have a sample of this champagne moulding and I mitred it on the morso, again chips.
My question, does everyone avoid all mouldings like this or is there something im
missing? This one was less ornate than the black moulding I shared earlier so I thought I’d have more luck. I have sharp blades, small bites and used painters tape on the backing. Bit lost on how to approach these heavily gessoed beasts. Chop service? Here in Australia, as I’m sure everywhere, adds a hefty cost which makes most mouldings not worth it. The black gloss I posted earlier was Italian and $38 per meter and crumbled ( I used new blades etc) hoping it’s something that’s my fault and that I can fix!

Many thanks Grumbler Gurus I appreciate all the tips and knowledge shared, absolute legends you are.



Cheers
Larry

 

[Vintage Frames]

My sympathies for you trying to cut these gessoed mouldings with a Morso. Unfortunately, the only effective way to cut them is with a mitre saw. That is what your supplier will have used when they supply it in 'chop' form - 'chop' being a bit misleading as it suggests they have some sort of a more sophisticated guillotine.
Instead of you spending hours of your time struggling to mitigate the chipping effect, it might be more cost effective to just order the moulding in chop form and price it accordingly.
Or maybe search out a production framer in your area and ask them to cut it for you.

 

[Larry Peterson]

I started out with a Morso. My moulding mix tends toward gesso'd mouldings so the Morso was not the best choice. There are folk here that do only hardwood moulding that swear by the Morso but if you aren't primarily hardwood, you are better off with a saw. I switched to an EMN-12 in 2008 and got rid of my Morso. Haven't missed it. My sander probably hasn't been used since then either.

Maybe its the pics but are you coloring the insides edge of your black frames with a black or dark gray pen? I see 'daylight' on your pics. A black or dark gray pen will get rid of that if what I'm seeing isn't a light trick. I use black on gloss mouldings and Cool Gray #8 on Matte Black mouldings.

 

[Larry01]

Thanks for the responses. I think it’s the angle/lighting that’s picked up the daylight. The edges are joined well, took me forever to sand and paint
Yes I’ll definitely get this champagne moulding cut! Can’t deal with the corner headaches, thank you.

In term of dual mitre saw, all the framing suppliers here sell the Alfa t400 etc. I don’t have the space, need or cash for one of these at this stage, unfortunately. In terms of brands that I could get here, what would you suggest that are a little more affordable? We have Dewalt, Bosh, Ryobi, Baumer, Makita etc

 

[artfolio]

I used a Morso for all my work for several years starting in 1987 and had few problems. Around the later 1990s manufacturers started having trouble getting decent timber at a reasonable price and started using finger jointed sticks and poorer quality timber and compensated for the rougher wood with thicker and harder gesso.

That was when the Morso fell out of favour with most framers as it simply could not cut the hard finishes well enough and the blades lost their edge too quickly. Taping the back helps but works best on a straight or slightly curved back. On an intricately detailed profile like the one at the start of this post it would be very fiddly burnishing the tape into all the crevices.

Most single bladed saws you can buy from the local hardware store are not up to scratch for framing and you would need a sander to correct the mitres after cutting which takes extra time. This is o.k. if you are a hobbyist but for a pro time is money.

The other alternative is to restrict yourself to those mouldings which will cut well on the Morso. There are quite a few of them but for any heavily gessoed mouldings and tricky ones you would have to use a chop service.