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WallDecor

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Feb 19, 2009
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I want to start a picture frame moulding import business. I have a reliable supplier. I would say that the mouldings are high end.

My problem is that I don't know where to start. I don't know about the selling part of the business. How to sell or how to find possible customers. I guess frame shops and art galleries would buy from me. I live in Ontario.

I need a LOT of advise from you guys!

Thanks
 
Hey Walldecor: I'd say that you're picking the absolutely worst time to start importing hi-end molding. Every supplier I have is dumping or discontinuing, and prices are low. High-end is not the rage these days, unless you have something really unique, but how unique can you be against the giants?

Retail frame shops also get at least 30 days, and usually more. Are you ready to extend credit? Are you well-capitalized?

And where are you in Ontario? I'm in eastern Ontario. It'll be easy to find framers, but turning them into customers will not be easy unless you have that really great product at a really great price.
 
Hi tedh,

I know it is a really bad moment to start, but I don't mind to start slow.
I could provide credit for 30 days or more. My supplier is giving me plenty room with that. What worries me are framers that won't pay me for my products.

Do you think that competing with the giants will be too dificult? Who are big? I know LJ and Roma.

I am in Hamilton, but definetily I'll be looking for the GTA market.
 
This is a bad time to be extending credit randomly to independant frame shops. Unless you have an extensive accounts receivable management history.

Also high end mouldings are going for practically nothing right now because they don't move very fast in severe recessions. Manufacturers and importers are doing anything they can to move what they've got. I've got at least 25 Italian mouldings in my one price sale which you can see prices on my website.

So the real question is how low can you go to move moulding in this economy. The recession is going to last for several years and the major players can dump high end moulding into a shrinking market for pennies on the dollar.
 
WallD:

Here are the negatives:

1. You're up against Triple Touch, Artex, LJ, Frameguild, Oxford, Canadian, Sunset, whoever distributes Michelangelo, Verbec, Roma, and the regional distributors. All formidable competitors. I have not mentioned any American producers.

2. Fifteen years ago I was told by a rep that the average receivable was 45 days. It is longer than that today.

3. This is a shrinking industry. Take a framer to lunch and he/she will tell you of the big numbers of frame shops in operation ten years ago, and the low numbers now.

4. Shipping costs have gone through the roof.

5. You are in a recession.

6. All the high-volume hotel-art and mall-art production shops in Toronto and Montreal have their suppliers lined up, and are buying good-looking stuff at junk prices. You will not be able to win at selling big lots at low prices.

7. I think that the other end of the market, the retail frame shops like mine, will not want to open new accounts until the consumer market picks up again. Your Hamilton location is deadly: closed-down steel and car plants, big layoffs, no spending. Eastern Ontario is better, but not by much. Out west, the layoffs have begun in Alberta. Home sales are down, and foreclosures are up.

Positives:

1. You have new profiles. If you have bought smartly, you will be rewarded.

2. You have lower overheads at the start.

3. You are hungry for sales. We like vendors like you, because we can use your prices to beat down the others. Nothing like competition, eh. But: Frameguild was in today, and they have a new killer line from Nurre. I bought lots.

If I were you, I would take it slow, not invest too much, and grow your customers very carefully. So when are you coming by? I had a good weekend, by the way, and my bills are getting paid, ever so slowly, but they are coming down.

Ted H
 
WallDecor said:
I want to start a picture frame moulding import business.
Click to expand...

WHY? If you cannot articulate clearly and numerically why in two or three bullet points then quit while you are ahead. If you have a well thought out business plan, you should not need to ask these sorts of questions:

WallDecor said:
My problem is that I don't know where to start. I don't know about the selling part of the business. How to sell or how to find possible customers. I guess frame shops and art galleries would buy from me.
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... sounds like you do not have that well thought out, succinct, business plan after all. Quit while you are ahead.

WallDecor said:
I need a LOT of advise from you guys!Thanks
Click to expand...

Then definitely quit!

Sorry to be so negative, but it really seems as though you are not even at square one in your thinking or research.
 
Andrew, your comment reminded me of my favorite line from the film Wall Street, where Gordon Gekko tells Bud, "a fool and his money are lucky to get together in the first place."
 
Walldecor, we're all being harsh on you, but you should read through the harshness because the common theme, and it's valuable, is that you are nowhere near ready even to evaluate the opportunity offered by your supplier. You have months of research ahead of you before you can make an informed decision. If you want to import picture frame moulding, you are going up against established companies with decades of experience. They have deep pockets (one of the biggest is owned by Warren Buffett, if that tells you something). They eat each other for lunch.

Let me ask you this -- did you go to WCAF? If the acronym means nothing to you, then you really are at square zero. It's one of the biggest trade shows in the industry, and your attendance as a prospective supplier is mandatory. You can't afford not to go. Fear not, you have another shot in just a few weeks, when the PMA tradeshow occurs in Las Vegas. If you are serious, you need to go. You need to see who the players are, and you need to see all the different products. You say you think your product is high end, but how do you know? What moulding company's product would you say it is comparable to?

You also should spend a substantial part of your days over the next few weeks reading the archives on this website. There's a wealth of knowledge.
 
PaulSF's advice brings up an issue for Canadian framers: the presence or non-presence of US-made and distributed wood moldings in Canada.

Larson, Roma and Nurre are here, but unless I'm mistaken, there are no other American manufacturers selling in Canada, so his major competition is not at WCAF. His competitors are the Big 3: LJ, Frameguild (Nurre), Roma, and all the other Canadian manufacturers and importers that I listed in the previous post, plus Fotiou.

Other Canadian framers can correct me if I'm wrong.

To make things worse, there are virtually no regular trade shows in Canada, so we framers may get technical education and exposure to equipment from WCAF, but not to moldings distributed here. And virtually no networking opportunities.

Walldecor can start with PMA/PPFA, but he has a long way to go to understand the Canadian market, and he has to develop his understanding here. If he has no experience as a Canadian framer, he's starting from an even weaker base.
 
wow a lot of comments.. and a lot of points... great...

I know what is WCAF... So I am not in square zero... but, close to that..

I know I am just starting to plan this so I know, as PaulSF said, I have months ahead before taking an informed decision... that's true.

I don't mind harsh comments... as long as I am learning something.. that's why I am asking you guys about this and at the same time I am doing research to figure out a good plan.

I honestly don't know if they are really high-end mouldings...That is what I think but I am not sure. What makes it high end? How do I know?

What kind of trade shows are in Canada? Or at least which ones are worth to visit?

tedh... How can I learn more about the Canadian market?
yes, I don't have experience as a Canadian framer...

What kind of magazine should I know about? right now I have PFM and Decor... are some other that I should take a look?

This is just a plan... but I want to minimize my mistakes and learn as much as I can before start full time with this...

I also want to learn common problems that canadian framers have with moulding suppliers.

Thanks for the comments... tell me more...
 
WallD: I'll talk to a retired rep and see if he can help you.

More later.
 
Tedh: That would be wonderful.

Right now, I want to learn as much as I can. I know there is a long road ahead, but I think I have a strong advantage because my supplier is my family business and they have been making mouldings for four generations in another country.
 
If your product is good then it sounds like you have a good start. Pull it all together and you could have a good future. Take your time and do it right. Good luck to you.
And welcome to the Grumble.
 
The easier part of distributing framing is in the importing, the warehousing, and the distribution of the from your warehouse to your customers. Almost anyone with enough capital can line up moulding suppliers, rent a warehouse and use a truck or UPS to get the product to the customer.

The difficult part is in selling the framing to your customer base. You need to identify who your customers will be, what their buying patterns are, and figure a way to sell to them, [getting them to buy from you, an unknown entity], and a way to profitably collect from them.

That is why, generally speaking, good selling people make quite a bit more than good warehousing and good purchasing people.

Brush up on your selling skills, and get out and talk to some potential framing customers before you invest.

To be successful you need to be a good sales person and sell everyone on why you and your product are better for them than what they currently have.

Good luck

Good Luck.
 
WallDecor said:
Tedh: That would be wonderful.

Right now, I want to learn as much as I can. I know there is a long road ahead, but I think I have a strong advantage because my supplier is my family business and they have been making mouldings for four generations in another country.
Click to expand...


I'd say that's a great start, but still a risky venture. That being said, what I would recommend is bringing samples to local good frame shops and asking their honest opinion of the moulding. Also asking if they've seen others like it... because if there's an identical one out there from an established company, most of us will shop with the established company unless there's a significant price break to buy it from you.

Again, find out WHAT you have (good or bad quality) by going to several local frame shops and asking the owners for their opinion.

You may also want to see if you can team up with an existing moulding supplier, and have them as a distributor, but then you're selling to them below wholesale.
 
I agree with Grey Owl. Marketing is the hard part of operating a supply business. If you are not good at locating, earning, and keeping customers, as well as pricing and operating profitably, then it would not matter how wonderful your product may be.

If you were a marketing genius looking for a product to sell, I think your chance of success would be much better than if you were a manufacturing genius looking for a way to sell the product.
 
Where in Otario are you - Call ichael at 416 580 0042 - otiou Frames in Woodbridge for more info if you need the higher end mouldings. Or, check with Michael for more info - He has been in the industry in Canada and the U.S. for more than 25 years. Very Helpful. Gook Luck - SK
 
I am near to Hamilton. I agree with everyone, the hard part is selling. Right now, I want to learn as much as I can of the Canadian market before start importing mouldings. Any help and comments are welcome
 
Hi WallDecor. To whom are the moldings made by your family sold?
 
How about posting a few pictures of your mouldings so we can see them and give you an idea if we might use them.
 
Sounds like you have already started...

WallDecor said:
...We sell mouldings to almost a dozen of framers and some furniture stores.
Click to expand...

WallDecor,

It sounds like you have already started out slowly, as you identified this as a goal of yours in an early posting. With a family run source of supply, you appear to have this part of the puzzle in place.

I'm not sure that you'll learn that much about the potential Canadian market, conversing here on this forum, Vs. simply visiting the dozen framers that you already sell. Drop in and offer to take them out to lunch...
  • Determine if they they are buying chop or length from you currently.
  • Do you supply them with Free corner samples?
  • What percentage of their offering do you mouldings represent?
  • Are you fitting into their mix because of uniqueness, price, fast service
  • Ask them what the wish you had in your line/range.

Then go visit a bunch of framers that currently are not customers, and see how anxious they are to add your samples to what they are already showing.

Ask yourself these questions...
  • Are you ready to expand? Do you have a sales force or are you knocking on doors?
  • Have you looked at the financial viability of your distribution competitiors?
  • Do you have a warehouse now that needs expansion, modernization or is it ready to grow?

Larger scale distribution usually succeeds due to multiple reasons including, great product, good sales reps, up-to-date and fluid warehouse management.

If you are already up and running, why have you not identified yourself with a completely filled out profile?

John
 
framah said:
How about posting a few pictures of your mouldings so we can see them and give you an idea if we might use them.
Click to expand...

One thing we can each you is "Selling to Molding Junkies".

There's more than one of us who can't resist a deal.

It's an addiction, overcome only by a high-margin sale.
 
I second Framah's suggestion. Also there are many moulding reps that are independents who might carry another company's line. It would be bad to go to a big name, sell to them then not be able to keep up with the demand.

Oh and we framers like FREE moulding samples. Are reluctant to pay for them. If you get a hundred framers asking for free samples, and if we don't them order for 8 months to a year, well, that's a big expensive outlay we will be asking of you! You ready for it?
 
I am not selling in Canada, yet. The customers that I was talking about are in a different country.

When you say free samples, do you mean free corner samples?
I would be willing to do that.

Here are some pictures of my mouldings.
1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg
 
Yes, those are the ones that we sell for furniture stores. But I want to sell only the mouldings.
 
Not bad mouldings. They have a shot... To me, these are basics...and you have to go up quite a few rungs to make it to higher end. What makes higher end? The type of wood, the quality of the finish, how its composed (gessoed, carved, etc) as well as how it feels...and a dozen other things.

Make sure you get someone to cut you some new mats, though...if you really want to impress framers. ;)

I used to work for a wholesale framer who started in his garage selling just two mouldings. Today he owns two major framing companies and sells better than 4000 mouldings. It can happen.

Are you sure that you can import cheaper than you can get those same mouldings locally made? And if you haven't checked into that, your competition has.
 
what prices can you put with these mouldings?
wholesale per ft per 100ft per 1000ft
how does it compare with existing similar items from established distributors/maunfactureres
also their specific dimentions would help determine if you are on track
 
I still need to consider more things before setting a definite price. I can't give you an exact price now, but I estimate it would be between 10 to 15 for the first picture (it is 2 1/2" x 1 1/2"tall)
for the 2nd picture, 5 to 10, (1 3/4" x 3/4")
for the 3rd, 10-15 (1 1/2" x 2")
for the last picture, 15-20 (3" x 1 1/4")

It would be per ft

This mouldings are solid wood, some are finished by hand, and some have hot stamping foil.

I still need to talk with more framers and find out other services or features that I could provide.
 
Are those prices retail? You really need to put a couple of pieces of those mouldings in a framers hand because the photos don't indicate that they should be anywhere near that high. Photos don't do mouldings justice because some things look much better in person which needs to be the case from these photos.
 
Yes I know, I have to find someone near Hamilton, ON who could give me an honest opinion about my mouldings.
 
I would have to agree that now is NOT the time to get in. It would be, however, a good time to PLAN. This recession (or depression, soon) isn't at the bottom, yet. Many framers, suppliers, manufacturer's will be going out of business- some temporarily, some permanently. If you plan things out, and can time it well as we come out of this economic mess, you could do well for yourself.

Be well prepared. Do a complete business plan. I once prepared a business plan for a business I was excited about starting, but once I got into the nickel and dimes of the business, I found it was going to be extremely hard to make the kind of profit I wanted to. I ended up scrapping the project. Probably saved myself tens of thousands of dollars.
 
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