Mitre Saws

Create a Post
O

OzFramer

CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
Joined
May 14, 2008
Posts
167
Loc
Perth, Western Australia
We are starting to think about upgrading to a saw for our shop and just want to get some feedback and opinions.
We currently use a chopper (guillotine) but its now time to begin the research to get a saw. We will keep our chopper for smaller mouldings, fillets and as a backup.

I'm mainly interested in what is available, what people currently use, pros and cons of a saw, things to look out for when deciding what brand/type/size etc.

We are budgeting towards the smaller to middle end units (Max $5K- $8K AUD) - Our shop is a small custom framing operation, not a production house.

Should I look at the smaller (but better branded) compound miter saws available from local hardware stores and look at a dust extraction system or should I only look at the units that Picture frame suppliers carry ?

Any help or advise would be greatly appreciated.
 
Get a double miter saw and you won't need a new one for 30 years. You will have different brands over there but my Pistorius is about 40 years old and no problems. They have gone out of business but CTD should be available over there and I would take a very hard look at ITW/AMP. Cassese is a great saw but very expensive over here. You can pick up used saws that will last a couple of decades if you buy a better brand. If you can't find a good deal over there it would be worth the money to buy from the U.S. and have it shipped because the prices on used saws are so low right now.

I have a 12" now but would definitely buy a 14" next time since mine will only cut 4" wide moulding so I own a second saw made by Frame Square which is also a great saw but not good for high production jobs. If you buy the right saw now you will never need to buy another one for as long as you are in business. Most of these saws were designed for metal cutting in machine shops so they will last forever cutting wood and are very easy to repair and replace parts which is nearly never needed.
 
Definitely buy a proper double mitre saw which is designed for framing. Any single bladed saw will eventually develop problems with the swivelling and locking mechanism and most of the hardware store stuff is strictly for hobbyists.

I have a Brevetti Prisma CE slide mitre saw which is pretty good so long as I keep its blades sharp. Cassese also make a similar machine which would be worth looking at.
 
Thanks Jeff n Artfolio!

Some good thoughts to consider.. Looks like we will re-look at our budget and try and stretch to a double mitre saw..

Anyone know what Inmes is like for their saws?
 
Hi Artfolio,
I to have a CE Prisma and would be interested in what you get your saw dot or to grind the chip angles to as some of this new outer compound moldings chip badly even if I slow the final few mm down to a crawl.
 
OzFramer said:
....Should I look at the smaller (but better branded) compound miter saws available from local hardware stores...
Click to expand...
These are usually very inaccurate and quite clunky pieces of equipment. Changing the mitre cut angle from one side to the other with hardware store compound saws can produce joints with gaps big enough to drive bus through!

I would recommend buying a good quality double mitre saw even if you have to wait a while. Cassese and Brevetti are two brands available in Australia.

Have you considered financing?
 
There is an idea I have been nursing for a while. DIY chop saws are not very accurate, as previously mentioned. But they can produce a decent cut even with the std blade. My idea is to assemble a dedicated setup using two saws, set at opposing 45deg angles. This way you don't have to swing the heads and would allow you to fine-tune the angles. Firmly bolted to a bench with a measuring scale. My theory is that once calibrated, it should produce consistently good results.
That's the idea anyway.
There is a nice DeWalt saw that supposedly has manual 'overide of the detents', to quote the manufacturers blurb. Which I hope means you can tweak the angle on one saw to give an exact 360deg on the inside of a frame. You don't need the slide thingy. In fact the simpler the better. A 10" blade will cope with 4" wide mouldings fine. 5" is a tad too wide, but how many 5" mouldings are there?
I'm going to build a bench to mount this on this very afternoon. Just going to buy some wood.:p Need to do a bit more to my new workshop before I can try it out though.......

The saws in question are priced about 200-250 GBP. Maybe less with a bit of haggling..... You could easiliy knock up a measuring scale. So the whole rig should be 600 GBP max. maybe a bit extra if you want to upgrade to finer tooth blades. But even this is considerably less than an entry-level single swing-head saw made for picture framing. One drawback with double mitre saws is the sheer bulk. Got access to a forklift? Also some need three phase lecky and an compressed air supply. If you have the room and more important the work for such a beast, then consider one.
 
ARTY said:
Hi Artfolio,
I to have a CE Prisma and would be interested in what you get your saw dot or to grind the chip angles to as some of this new outer compound moldings chip badly even if I slow the final few mm down to a crawl.
Click to expand...

Chipout on the top rear corner is the achilles heel of this machine and some of the hard, brittle compo used to armour plate moulding these days compounds the problem. I use Dimar triple tip tungsten carbide blades and change them over as soon as the chipping becomes a problem. Generally, it is best if the moulding goes right across the throat of the saw so that both the long end and the offcut end are supported. The left hand cut is the most difficult and sometimes after the initial cut I have to shave off another sliver to get a perfect corner. The right hand cut, where both ends are supported is less of a problem and usually comes out clean.

I recently used a bigger Cassese slide mitre saw to cut a super-wide moulding and this is a slide mitre saw with the blade mounted above the moulding so that any chipout happens at the bottom of the moulding rather than at the top which makes it easier to hide. Chipout is also minimised because the base of the moulding is supported.
 
Whatever you decide to get, check into after market support before buying. Support for discontinued brands, like CTD and Pistorius may be difficult to come by, and though the machines are built to last don't count on that when buying used.
If you opt to go with a pair of dedicated miter saws, go to a contractor supply or fine woodworking source. Most of the brands available in the US make two lines of tools; those for the retail hobbiest, and those for the person making a living with the tool. I have seen this kind of set up and it does work well assuming you aren't getting in to large scale production. I would also seriously consider a pair of the Inmes
1173808423serraim-3008cpia.jpg
IM-30 saws for this kind of set up. They also sell the scaled support arms for the saw.
 
wpfay said:
Support for discontinued brands, like CTD and Pistorius may be difficult to come by, and though the machines are built to last don't count on that when buying used.
Click to expand...

Are you saying that CTD has also become defunct or just a particular model. CTD and Pistorius saws can be serviced locally and there are no parts that are difficult to source. Electric supply houses, Grainger or a good old fashioned machine shop can provide any item ever needed for these saws.

The largest problem frame shops have with these saws is that they don't know where to turn for needed parts. I was recently contacted by a large chain's production manager needing a diagnosis and part for a Pistorius and it took 5 minutes over the phone to get them back into business. It was one of 2 possible problems and the one could be solved in minutes with items in the shop and the other would have had them run to a corner store.
 
I was under the assumption that CTD was out of business.
The BB was lucky to have a diagnostician they could tap into. Otherwise they would have a large piece of worthless steel. Pistorius is an easy fix because they didn't use any proprietary parts, but those numbers of people familiar enough to diagnose over the phone (for free no less) are slowly becoming extinct.
 
CTD has been providing equipment to the metal machining industry forever so I doubt they will go away. They are one of the most common names in equipment for manufacturing of metal components in the world. My father's business was/is (sister and brother in law own it now) a manufacturing business and he was shocked that CTD made a saw for a toy industry such as picture framing. When I bought my first CTD saw 25 years ago they had at least a half dozen pieces of CTD equipment in their plant.

http://ctdsaw.com/
 
I used a CTD D45AX pneumatic double miter saw for 14 years and it was an excellent saw with a heavy duty dust collection vac.
We used it for wood and metal. It had the built in spray lube system for cutting metal frames.
I'm using a Pistorius saw now with the manual chop pedal.
Personally, I like the CTD better.
 
The Pistorius MN300 is the great due to the open cabinet on the inside which is like the CTD so you don't get chips bending teeth on blades. Different years also had different configurations to them. I've used several of each brand and there is no way of comparing one against the other because of configurations even within a specific model.
 
Create a Post
Back
Top