mirror
- Thread starter kra
- Start date
MIK
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Way cool frame! Did you do all the carving yourself?
kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
mik,
yes, with the help of my cnc router. I copied the old antique frame as best as I could but it was pretty broken up with many parts missing. Not much to go on but I was trying to recreate it to go with a matching dresser for a customer. The mirror was broken and the frame was severely damaged by a moving company several years ago and the remnants were dumped in a cardboard box and stored for years. There was just enough of the mirror left to get a sketch of one side (in 3 pieces) of the etching. Used a combination of finishes to get the look of the old frame. It was kinda fun to do but took a long time.
Randy
yes, with the help of my cnc router. I copied the old antique frame as best as I could but it was pretty broken up with many parts missing. Not much to go on but I was trying to recreate it to go with a matching dresser for a customer. The mirror was broken and the frame was severely damaged by a moving company several years ago and the remnants were dumped in a cardboard box and stored for years. There was just enough of the mirror left to get a sketch of one side (in 3 pieces) of the etching. Used a combination of finishes to get the look of the old frame. It was kinda fun to do but took a long time.
Randy
Dave
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Wow, Randy ...nice job!
I take it you did the engraving on the mirror too? Interesting cutting also ...
I take it you did the engraving on the mirror too? Interesting cutting also ...
MIK
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
What kind of CNC router to you have???? Been wanting to get one, but all I have found is the large units that cost $$$$$$$. Would really like to find something smaller and affordable.
kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Dave, Yes I did the etching (the design was that of the old mirror as close as possible). The original was carved into the back before the mirror was "mirrored" but I could not duplicate that so I just etched from the front.
mik, I have a homemade cnc that I built from scratch a few years ago. It works great but does have a bit too much backlash I need to fix.
Randy
mik, I have a homemade cnc that I built from scratch a few years ago. It works great but does have a bit too much backlash I need to fix.
Randy
Twin2
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
That is absolutely beautiful, Randy. I can only imagine the hours and hours that went into that piece. A true work of art!
Val
PFG, Picture Framing God
Beautiful, Randy!
Was that for a customer or for yourself?
Was that for a customer or for yourself?
MIK
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Randy,
Where did you find your plans for the CNC or could you share them with me??
Where did you find your plans for the CNC or could you share them with me??
kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Twin2, thank you. yes it did take a while to do but it was kinda fun. I just worked on it when I felt like it.
Val,
This was for a good customer that spends lots of money and sends lots of friends my way. I like a challenge anyway, just not too many too close together.
mik, sorry I don't have any plans per say but I will try to send you some pictures and/or web links that helped me out. Mine is built on the cheap but does work surprisingly well.
Here is a mock-up of another one I am working on. I will post a pic when I finish it. Also a pic of my homemade cnc router.
Val,
This was for a good customer that spends lots of money and sends lots of friends my way. I like a challenge anyway, just not too many too close together.
mik, sorry I don't have any plans per say but I will try to send you some pictures and/or web links that helped me out. Mine is built on the cheap but does work surprisingly well.
Here is a mock-up of another one I am working on. I will post a pic when I finish it. Also a pic of my homemade cnc router.
Attachments
Twin2
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Looking forward to seeing your next one - the mockup looks very nice!
I'm really in awe of all the framers out there that do much more than cut a length of pre-finished moulding and assemble it into a frame. Not to say anything against the framers who only deal with pre-finished moulding (I'm one of them), but to create a beautiful frame from scratch is truly awesome and a fine example of excellent craftsmanship (and I'm jealous!
)
I'm really in awe of all the framers out there that do much more than cut a length of pre-finished moulding and assemble it into a frame. Not to say anything against the framers who only deal with pre-finished moulding (I'm one of them), but to create a beautiful frame from scratch is truly awesome and a fine example of excellent craftsmanship (and I'm jealous!
)
Terry Hart cpf
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Fastinating. So, ok, you're gonna have to cough it up. How many hrs into the frame? How many hrs into building the router? A beautiful piece!
MIK
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
"Yes I did the etching (the design was that of the old mirror as close as possible). The original was carved into the back before the mirror was "mirrored" but I could not duplicate that so I just etched from the front."
Randy, have you tried masking off the back of the mirror and sand blasting the design from the back. Might give you that "carved" look of the orginal and the design will have the etched look you want. Also, please check you PM.
Randy, have you tried masking off the back of the mirror and sand blasting the design from the back. Might give you that "carved" look of the orginal and the design will have the etched look you want. Also, please check you PM.
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kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
mik,
I did consider it but wasn't sure what the result would be.
I found a little portable sand etcher that uses compressed air canisters and prepackaged abbrasive that looked like it would be neat for small items like this.
In the end I just took the easier (had what i needed already) route.
Randy
I did consider it but wasn't sure what the result would be.
I found a little portable sand etcher that uses compressed air canisters and prepackaged abbrasive that looked like it would be neat for small items like this.
In the end I just took the easier (had what i needed already) route.
Randy
MIK
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
When I have some free play time (soon, hopefully), I'll try using my sandblaster to see what happens. I know I've done it, but can't remember what I used for the masking as not to take the silver off. I'll be talking to a friend who does stained glass and glass etching and see what they suggest.
kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
I usually cut my masking from vinyl (sign vinyl) and it works good from the front or on regular glass but it may be to sticky for the back (might remove mirroring). I will try it and see.They make it in a sandblasting mask also but I have never tried it.
Ack Cents In Framing
CGF, Certified Grumble Framer
WOW Great work!!!! Looks like it was fun to do and even better to see the finished product.
Kirstie
PFG, Picture Framing God
You guys just blow me away sometimes. Amazing. Just beautiful work.
I always look at this section of the G first--so much fun to see what you have all been up to.
I always look at this section of the G first--so much fun to see what you have all been up to.
kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Lemon_Drop1
Grumbler
Nice job, kra.
I think that the original mirror design was cut into the mirror from the back.
It would be done using a glass cutting wheel, which "carves" for want of a better word the design into the glass , and then silvered after that.
The fact that its carved gives various angles which reflects light when silvered.
This can not be achieved unless its cut on a wheel.
From the pictures it seems like you masked off from the front and sandblasted the design.
The other option is to acid etch the design on the mirror, this is an acid paste which instead of sandblasting the design area, is spread on the mirror to etch into the glass, this is a bit slower, but the finish is softer than using the sandblast method.
The back of the mirror is made up of two parts, the first is the layer of silver, which is a mixture of chemicals, using a double headed sprayer which mixes the chemicals before they hit the glass, and then its washed down using distilled water.
The second part of the back is a layer of paint that protects the surface of the silver.
If you choose to sandblast from the back both layers will have to be cut through, until you reach the glass itself.
I really dont think the effect is any better than what you are doing from the front.
Going through the back, looks basically the same plus you have to seal where you took away the protective layer of paint, which is important because if moisture gets at the layer of silver it will damage it. You could use a layer of clear varnish on the sandblasted area.
Either method you use will never look the same as the original mirror. Sandblast or acid etch eats into the surface layer of the glass, and it cannot reflect light.
The only way is cutting into the glass with a cutting wheel and then silvering the area. If you are thinking of doing that, its easier to use 6mm float glass and then cut the design into it, if you use mirror you cant see where the cutting head is , and then get the glass slivered.
We use a CNC to do the cutting, which is basically a giant computerised mat cutter, some of the cuts could be compared to v-grooves in mats, and then silvering the glass.
BTW The frames are stunning!!!
I think that the original mirror design was cut into the mirror from the back.
It would be done using a glass cutting wheel, which "carves" for want of a better word the design into the glass , and then silvered after that.
The fact that its carved gives various angles which reflects light when silvered.
This can not be achieved unless its cut on a wheel.
From the pictures it seems like you masked off from the front and sandblasted the design.
The other option is to acid etch the design on the mirror, this is an acid paste which instead of sandblasting the design area, is spread on the mirror to etch into the glass, this is a bit slower, but the finish is softer than using the sandblast method.
The back of the mirror is made up of two parts, the first is the layer of silver, which is a mixture of chemicals, using a double headed sprayer which mixes the chemicals before they hit the glass, and then its washed down using distilled water.
The second part of the back is a layer of paint that protects the surface of the silver.
If you choose to sandblast from the back both layers will have to be cut through, until you reach the glass itself.
I really dont think the effect is any better than what you are doing from the front.
Going through the back, looks basically the same plus you have to seal where you took away the protective layer of paint, which is important because if moisture gets at the layer of silver it will damage it. You could use a layer of clear varnish on the sandblasted area.
Either method you use will never look the same as the original mirror. Sandblast or acid etch eats into the surface layer of the glass, and it cannot reflect light.
The only way is cutting into the glass with a cutting wheel and then silvering the area. If you are thinking of doing that, its easier to use 6mm float glass and then cut the design into it, if you use mirror you cant see where the cutting head is , and then get the glass slivered.
We use a CNC to do the cutting, which is basically a giant computerised mat cutter, some of the cuts could be compared to v-grooves in mats, and then silvering the glass.
BTW The frames are stunning!!!
Twin2
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Another beautiful mirror. Thanks for sharing the second one!
Baer Charlton
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Randy, is that a laminate trim router you are using?
"V" bit?
"V" bit?
kra
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Baer,
I normally use a Porter Cable router, but in the pic I posted I was actually using a dremel tool. I had been cutting pc boards with it. I use different bits depending on what I am cutting. I have collets for 1/8" up to 1/2". I use milling machine bits a lot.
Randy
I normally use a Porter Cable router, but in the pic I posted I was actually using a dremel tool. I had been cutting pc boards with it. I use different bits depending on what I am cutting. I have collets for 1/8" up to 1/2". I use milling machine bits a lot.
Randy
I think using CMC routers is probably going to be one of the next big steps in custom framing. Making the raw wood frames is only half the work, learning proper finishing techniques, I have found, was not so easy.
As more framers learn and start selling their own frames and finishes, many will turn to unfinished mouldings rather than spending on the expensive pre finished mouldings.
When I first started in this industry there were more than a few shops still doing their own finishes, on unfinished stick moulding. Now with the advent of the CMC router, it is going to get notched up a whole lot, all over the country.
You are only limited by your sick, twisted, mind on the types of frames you can produce. Your shop space is also a deciding factor when thinking about CMC wood carving.
Our industry is not dying, heck, we are just getting started.
I am sure it will not be long before companies like Wizard will start offering CMC routers to our industry.
John
As more framers learn and start selling their own frames and finishes, many will turn to unfinished mouldings rather than spending on the expensive pre finished mouldings.
When I first started in this industry there were more than a few shops still doing their own finishes, on unfinished stick moulding. Now with the advent of the CMC router, it is going to get notched up a whole lot, all over the country.
You are only limited by your sick, twisted, mind on the types of frames you can produce. Your shop space is also a deciding factor when thinking about CMC wood carving.
Our industry is not dying, heck, we are just getting started.
I am sure it will not be long before companies like Wizard will start offering CMC routers to our industry.
John
Pat Murphey
SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
A techie update to those "pantograph" style routers that Abe Munn acquired in the 1940's.
wow. I like, I like.