Mirror mark-ups

Mecianne

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How much do you mark up price on beveled mirrors? Are suppliers cheaper than glass companies? (I am waitng on some prices from some local glass & morrir companies.) I have a home-builder that is looking for quite a few framed mirrors for master baths & mantels for some spec houses. Just trying to do a little research before I start making her prices. Thanks for any input.
 

Bob Carter

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Boy, this always comes off badly and I question why in the heck I even post it, but...

I think it is horrible advice to ever think that a preset anything, one size fits all way of doing of business can ever be acceptable.

You mention doing some research and that is great.

And it starts and ends in your own market.

Let's say that some bright eyed framers says 2.5 is the "perfect" mark up. Is that 2.5 times the glass house or the frame supplier? Let's say that I buy pretty well and I get a mirror for $20 and you pay $30.

Which price should the smart merchant charge?

Would $50 be right for me or would $75 be right for you? Or would $75 be right for me? Or can they buy tem all day long at Home Depot for $39.95?

I do not mean to be mean spirited, but that is such a lousy way to determine any pricing (I almost said lazy, but some one would surely criticize me for being harsh)

How can we ever expect to become better businesspeople if we ignore the most basic issues of being in business?

Somebody has just got to step up and say that getting pricing advice on the internet is sorta like getting a date on the internet
 

Doug Gemmell

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Here are some pricing examples that work for us. Prices are based on 3/16" thick with a 1" bevel and free delivery from a local glass company.

16 X 20 wholesale: $14.10 retail: $30.00

24 X 36 wholesale: $29.20 retail: $63.00

16 X 20 oval wholesale: $37.00 retail $90.00

We also buy from another company that is somewhat higher but since they refer business to us, we give them a good percentage of the orders.
 

Jay H

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Bob I think the internet is a great place to pick up the ladies. They are all 22, blond, 120#, 5'9", with a really good job and no boyfriend. Didn't you know? Your missing out.


Sorry I just had to add that. You can have your thread back.

Carry on!
 

Mecianne

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I don't need an exact mark up rule. Just a ball park idea with which to start. I have never even sold a mirror before ('sides one ready-made). I know I can't make my prices the same as someone in a larger metro market. I'm just brand-new & try to get as much info as I can from as many sources as I can. Thanks for your honesty. I can take harshness. I'm a big girl! ;)
 

southernmoon

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I just priced out a custom sized beveled mirror just last week. Since the size was 19x39 I had to get quotes from the 2 area glass and mirror companies. Both companies said that would call their supplier, who would be cutting the mirror, for a price. I was given one quote of $117.00 and another of $90.00. I don't think I was getting much of a wholesale price break. If my customer had called one of the companies they probably would have been give the same price.
So then came the dilemma of how much to charge my customer. Since she was getting a quote from somewhere else, i knew she had the option of ordering it herself. She is a frequent (good) customer so I decided to only charge her $30 for picking it up. My real profit was made from the moulding she picked out and my labor. :D
 
D

Dermot

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Originally posted by Bob Carter:

Somebody has just got to step up and say that getting pricing advice on the internet is sorta like getting a date on the internet
The Internet is now one of the single biggest source for shopping……..NO other shopping experience allows a shopper to go to one location (in the case of the internet your computer) and do your shopping………to suggest that the Internet is not a good place to go price shopping is displaying a great ignorance of the Internet or arrogance……or both……

Remember all those industry leaders who laughed at Michel Dell not so long ago when he started to sell on the Internet…..”he wont last it wont last, it a passing phase etc. etc” where are those guys now!!!!!!

Oh and the Internet is also the fastest growing way for boy to meet girl……or for that matter any gender to meet like minded people.

My spin on the mark up for mirrors having sold them to framers, is barring an immediate availability of market research is to use about x 2.3 mark up and monitor it for awhile……this way you wont be leaving to much money on the table but it also allows you a little room to manoeuvre if you are faced with a competitive pricing situation, I’m assuming that you are buying at an average buying rate for mirror which will be reasonable consistent regardless of what part of the world you are in.

BTW it is 2.3 mark up an old and very wise mentor of mine told me many years ago not to use the predictable mark up’s or down…..it can give away business information on the mark up and it is just to predictable on the mark down that it becomes the normal…I have won many bids and deals over the years based on this advise.
 

FramerRandy

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Dermot
your comments about folks shopping on the Internet is very good, althouh I wouldn't know about girls :confused: . I just responded to an Internet request for multiple pieces of glass. Don't know if it will result in anything, but it didn't take any longer to respond than if it had been a phone call, maybe less time ;)
Anyway, I know this thread is about pricing mirrors, so I will go back to my
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
 

Mecianne

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Southernmoon....thanks for your input. That is my dilemma...I know what she can get at local level glass co. prices. I want to be competitive. But I know that the moulding is where I will make my money. So I don't want to mark up the mirrors too much b/c of this. Also, it's not like she is buying one. This will be a multiple-mirror sale. ;)

Dermot, I agree that the internet is the place to do price shopping. Saves a lot of time. I price shop all of the time on all kinds of items. Not just related to business. I think Bob was just trying to say that I can't or shouldn't charge exactly what he or any one else charges. Using the internet, whether it be the Grumble or Target or e-bay or anything you can google, at least gives you a base idea. Just like when we did research papers in college....you have to have books, magazines, newspapers, journals, and internet sources. Wide variety of facts & opinions. I appreciate your input & info.

Everyone is helpful as always.
 

Bob Carter

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Well, Dermot, my friend, will you please give her a less-arrogant or less-ignorant answer to her question? And why is it that every time the internet comes up, you drag out Michael Dell?

Don't you begin to tell me that Michael went to the internet to determine what type of mark up he should have on his product.

C'mon, Dermot, I can't believe that any businessperson would not suggest that she do the "research" in her own market, based on her own needs and her own costs. Why the heck woud anyone in Maine or California have the answer she needs?

Let's use my example: which price, $75 or $50, would you recommend.

It's like selling anything else: There are simple, easy ways to determine what a selling price should be for any product. Perhaps your wife wil share how her company decides such matters? And, that is no cheap shot, as you have mentioned many times her expertise. So, I am quite serious.

We need to be intellectually honest when we proffer help and that includes meaningful, business-poven methods. We just have to get beyond, way beyond,these feel good, you go girl,types of advice. I have to tell you that the 2.3x starting point might be quite dangerous in our marketplace. Perhaps in Ireland, that might be a more reasonable approach. But,here,it is no subtitute for meaningful market research

I know that many framers never do this type of due diligence before the open the doors. But,I have to ask: How can anyone do any type of meaningful Business Plan without a full assessment of the marketplace and the competition? How can you possibly have a "profitable" pricing strategy if you do not know where the elasticity and pricing ranges are? How can you ever determine if you have competitive pricing,such a critical component in this aggresive market,if you do not know where te competitive prices are?

Dermot,I mean this as constructive criticism of her methods and I'll bet that her methods are because, possibly, that no one has ever told her otherwise?

I realize that not many of us have been as fortunate as possibly I have when it comes to having great educational opportunities.

And, it is exactly why I feel so compelled to share these very basic tenents to others. Partly, because no one else seems to feel compelled to do so.

I am also sorry that you missed my point on getting advice from the internet. If she wanted to know what others were "selling" mirors for, perhaps she might yield results. In fact, I would thinkshe might get a "global" idea of retail-type pricing.

But,it won't answer her question about mark-up and it won't answer my question about her marketplace
 

Mecianne

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Gee....thanks for all the help. Most of the advice and suggestions I have recieved in reference to pricing on the G have been very helpful. I gathered all the info and from there, came up with my own methods which are working great. Just wanted a starting point. Like do you mark up mirrors more than CC glass just b/c they are mirrors? And no one answered or even touched on the question "Are glass companies cheaper than suppliers" Or maybe I should ask, "do you use local glass companies or glass houses rather than suppliers & why?"
"What are your mirror prices?"

Nevermind.
 

AWG

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To answer your last question:

We use 2 local supply houses - we get a slight break from retail walk-in customers and can get any size we want.

We've found they're not always cheaper than framing distributors - we use only 1/4 or 3/16th glass (not cheap 1/8) but being able to offer any size mirror, any size bevel gives us an advantage over the competition.

Tony
 

Bob Carter

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Hi Tony-You mentioned that your price is " a slight break better" than retail customers. How does that give you an advantage over the competition?

I think our poster is a little upset with the lack of responses to answer her questions and my suggestions would be quite simple:

Pick up the phone and call several glass houses and compare prices with whatever prices she currently recieves from her framing distributor.

Then she needs to visit some of the Big Box guys (if there are any in Millbrook) and get a sense of what they charge for mirrors. Remember, the average consumer probably goes into these stores 12 times more frequently than they do ours (and, please don't question that number unless you have some study to refute it). So, if there might be any price sensitivity,it is most likely generated by that source.

So, what is a person to do?

Local homework. Not only is it important for the actual case at hand, but it gives a sense of market that is so often missing when we make decisions.

Just like many will instantly rail at the 12x more exposure of the BB's,it is a fact. Just because you don't think so, doesn't make it so. We talk about "thinking outside the box" when we need to do more thinking outside our stores.

Get into the marketplace-see what your consumer sees-think about what generates positive responses from these same consumers that spend oodles of dollars at places other than at our stores

Be a part of your market; too many of us are apart of our market. Doing such basic market research will not only help each of us,but it will most definitely help this poster.

In the time this post has run, she could have developed all the information necessary to form her own answers.

This is what pretty much every other businessperson does when they have similar questions
 

framah

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A question no one has asked our poster is: are these mirrors custom sizes or are they standard sizes that anyone can buy at a BB? Standard sizes, then they can get them themselves and bring them to you. In fact, I'd suggest they go to a BB and get them there as you can't compete with their prices so why not help the customer get the best price.
If they are custom sizes then you need to look again at whether it is worth it for you to order the mirrors or just let them get them and bring them to you. Part of your thinking is whether they want to even hassle with the mirrors themselves. Alot of times it's not worth their time to deal with it rather just have you do it.
If a local glass place gives you 10% off retail then you could add 25% or 30% back on as a small profit and to cover your time ordering them as you will definitely make it up on the framing.
 

framah

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Oh, and Bob... could you be a little MORE arrogant and ingorant whenever you try to answer a question? Every time you post here you end up giving out smug, arrogant answers as tho you are the only one with all the answers and everyone else is just an ignorant fool who isn't fit to breathe the same air as you.
Making a statement about people visiting BB 12 times more than our shops and then chastizing us if we question your "facts" without even backing up your facts with the study it came from smacks of the ultimate in arrogance and ignorance if you think we will blindly believe everything you post here as the gosple as if comes from you. Congratulations on your enormous amount of education by the way. It really shows.
Your comment to Dermot about his wife actually was perceived as a cheap shot and uncalled for.
Now, how about getting back to ruling your own little kingdom and leave the rest of the world to live free of your constant snide remarks.
 

Mecianne

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Bob, As I said previously, I am doing research. When I am not building frames and completeing paperwork, I am doing homework. I make phone calls, I secret shop, I read, I practice designs, and I am constantly calculating my pricing methods....and I grumble. I find it helpful to share business practices and framing ideas with other framers on the internet. There is a wealth of information here and it is much easier to share here than with one's competition a few miles down the road.

I think your replies carry a tone of prejudgement on how I do business (oh, what the heck, it screams prejudice). Your preconception of my curiosity only shows your ignorance. You are right about one thing, though...This reply has been a grand waste of my time.


Originally posted by Bob Carter:

In the time this post has run, she could have developed all the information necessary to form her own answers.

This is what pretty much every other businessperson does when they have similar questions
So why don't we all sign off, never come back to ask any questions or share business practices & framing ideas. I may be mistaken in thinking that this is what the grumble is all about.
 

Lance E

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Originally posted by Mecianne:
"Are glass companies cheaper than suppliers"
Its possible, it really depends on who they are and where they source their product. Why not just go direct to a factory and buy a container full, I can assure you that this is far cheaper. And using the 2.5 times markup example I could sell a mirror for maybe $30, loosing much of the potential profit.
 

Tim Hayes.

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As a framing business owner for 20 years who by NO stretch of the imagination claims to "...know it all..." I constantly am bewildered by individuals who post questions here regarding pricing.

More often then not the information given is incomplete at best. "I buy my (insert a material or supply here) for $x.xx. What should I charge for it?"

Life just ain't that simple, folks!!! If you want an accurate answer there is a need for much more detailed information. What are all your over head costs(rent, electric, trash, labor, etc, etc, etc.) What is your market? ( small town 30,000, small city 200,000, large metro area 1,000,000)
How many competitors in an x mile radius? What do THEY charge? How productive is your business?
What customers does your business target? To name a few criteria.

In order to get a really good "starting" point for pricing it makes sense to compare apples to apples. If you were living in Cleveland, Ohio and in the process of trying to sell your house your real estate agent would not be looking at housing prices in Dallas, Texas in order to determine a selling price for your house.

Prices from some business a thousand miles away in a market 4 times the size of the one in which you are located will not be relevant to how YOU set YOUR prices. That's the type of reply you often receive when you ask here. Unless you know your business and market and the same information from the respondent the answer you get will more than likely have NO validity as it relates to your particular individual situation in your business.
 

Terry Hart cpf

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We use a mark up similar to what we use for glass. I'm sure it goes without saying that you should at the very least charge enough that if one broke you would not lose money replacing it. LJ (if I'm allowed to name names) and a glass company we use have similar prices on out of the box stock mirrors but of course a glass company can supply custom work (at a much higher price of course, point made?). We would always quote the highest custom price and discount from there depending on all the specifics, including the type of car driven by the customer. All in all I would think the cost of these mirrors would be pretty small compared to the home so I would probably go on the high side.
 

Jay H

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"Why not just go direct to a factory and buy a container full... "

That is a huge investment but I can get glass for 1.20 sq/ft. It may take a while to sell all that but you could make the Big Boxes look like fools if you wanted. Buying like this does make the 3.635 x markup look silly.

FYI the local glass company sales it for 4.20/sq and another supplier will cut what you need for 8.40/sq. It would seem to me if this is the best you can buy that you sell something else.

Now what do you think I should sale them for? ;)
 

Mike Labbe

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There have been some good opinions addressed here, but let's back off the personal remarks and veiled insults. This is not in the productive spirit of the Grumble, and although it may be acceptable on other forums, we do not encourage personal remarks here.

"Take what you can use and leave the rest..."

Thank you in advance
Mike Labbe
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Warren Tucker

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I am amazed that small businessmen (actually, in my case, very small)would put forth the idea that their "overhead" has anything to to with how they set their prices. Actually your competitors' overhead is probably more inportant because prices are set in the market and, short of a monopoly or cartel, there and nowhere else. Overhead has a lot to do in determining whether you can compete in a particular market but not what you charge for a product.

It's interesting that we just bid on and won a $20K job and we didn't figure overhead into our bid at all because we knew we weren't working anywhere near our capacity. The "overhead" was going to be there whether we got the job or not and that's pretty much the case with our regular retail transactions. Now if we were working at anywhere near capacity, then the additional overhead the job would require would be an issue.

Specialized knowledge is essential for survival and part of anyone's knowledge had better be what price his market sets for what he wants to sell. Another element of this knowledge would be knowing where and how to buy. Almost monthly there is a post here from a SC business that has beveled mirror over runs. If you could find a mirror in their inventory, you might just be able to sell for 2.5 times what you paid for it. In fact, it's possible that their regular custom made price might be significantly lower that what you can get the mirror for locally.

There's no way you could mark up a mirror much over what the local glass companies sell it for, and only a fool would try to because all his customer has to do is pick up the phone and call Acme Glass and ask for a price. How long would it take for the story to get around town that you charged $65 for a mirror that anyone could get from Acme for $30?
 

ERIC

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Wow, I am starting to understand Bob's point. And frankly, the negative reception is just making me look at his point harder.

One thing I am noticing is that when a X.X mark-up is offered in reply, there is no explanation of WHY that mark-up is chosen. That information would help more than just what factor is used.

For example, I view standard sized bevel mirror as an inventory item. The price is material, plus shipping, times two. The labor is included in any fitting charge, and I never discount an item like that. So unlike CC glass which has a labor and a waste cost, std bev mirror works more like an item on the shelf out front. Now Bob may point out that my COG is 50%, not the more ideal 28%. That is worthy of my consideration. Or I(his)HO this may be okay to do. I certainly don't work on 50% on mirror that I cut off of a large sheet, that works more like glass.

Maybe what tends to go on among us is similar to why I don't care for Decor's pricing suveys. How many of the participants are actually making as much money as they think they are? How many of us, by using those charts and guides are just perpetuating the bad pricing practices of others? They are most definately well meaning framers, but with the number of independant shops closing, do I want to copy their profit margins?
 

Bob Carter

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Hi Framah-You have a long hostile history of attacking many things I say and I expect it. You don't like me-fine.

Now, tell me what I said is incorrect. What point do you disagree? Which part of my suggestion to her is wrong?

You mentioned my remark about Dermot's wife. I thought I covered the bases by stating it wasn't a cheap shot (because I just knew someone would take it that way and you did not let me down)but as a true suggestion to ak his wife how they develop pricing. Dermot has many times stated his wife's position (maybe not publicly, but certainly privately with me)and I just suggested that if he sought out the advice of the way she does it, it might be instructive.

I am sorry that a few seem to always get their noses out of joint when I give them some straight talk. There have been some pretty nasty attacks, but no furthering of how she should develop a pricing strategy by any of the attackers. That's fine,it comes with the teritory.

But,let's examine this scenario and see the reactions:

Suppose a framer that no one knows anything about makes a post and asks "I am interested in knowing what type of markup I should use on cardboard backing? And is it cheaper to buy this from packaging companies or from my framing distributors. I use this as backing for work I sell to home builders and want to make sure my price is correct."

How many framers will instantly attack this poster for using a product so incorrectly suited for framing? Most? Maybe. How many will say to themselves "Gee, this person needs some help because they really are struggling with some pretty basic stuff, but, if I post it, it may be taken as arrogant or ignorant" From now on,probably a lot more.

But how many will really think that this poster is on the right track? Well, I'll bet there might be some people not very proficient in framing that might even agree. But, don't you know the overwhelming majority of skillful framers that have been trained well know better? And, shouldn't they post so?

Well, her method of developing pricing is just like using cardboard; to me, I see it as wrong as most framers would see the cardboard.

Let's hope that anyone that might suggest the improper use of cardboard would fare better.

Kind looking beyond the perceived message and read the actual words. Agree or disagree-no problem. But no one has defended her method yet
 

Rick Granick

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That's an excellent analogy, Bob. I think the tone or intent of your earlier post here was grossly misinterpreted to begin with. I don't think any of us have any obligation to use specific language or to sugar-coat our views. (Even if we felt so inclined, often we are taking a short "Grumble break" from a busy day, and don't have time to fine-tune our prose for "political correctness".)
I wish folks would accept information, advice, suggestions etc. in the spirit in which they are offered, rather than trying to assign ulterior motives to the poster. We're here to help one another.
kaffeetrinker_2.gif
Rick
 

DTWDSM

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Ok I have stayed out of this one but I will respond to Bob's senario...

I would tell this framer that they should use the cardboard from the boxes that the mirrors were sold in. You can but mirrors at a Home Depot, turn aroud and resell them for a dollar or two over what you paid for them and sell the cardboard backing for another couple bucks. You may not make much money on the mirror but you will make it up on the volume of the cardboard.

What a no brainer ;)
 

Emibub

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Well said Rick. Thank goodness we have Bob here to poke at us with a stick to remind us we are here to make money, I don't think a tap on the shoulder would do. I prefer the straight no bull **** talk, may be a bit jarring at times but somebody has to keep rattling our cages.......
 

Mecianne

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Know what? This is just like the **** silicone thread (actually it started as a thread about tacky glue). Then it escalated into the reasons we should preserve everything known to man in mylar (forgive me, Jim....just trying to make a point). Seems everyone here is so **** adamant on not only making a point, but making the point that they are right , no matter what the question was in the first place.

I took what Bob said, and what everyone else added and used what I needed and left the rest (someone's signature quote). Then someone offended someone and someone else offended them....and before you know it, I got offended.

So where are we? NOWHERE. And you know what? It is stupid anyway. I have already figured what my freakin' mirror price mark up should be. (Thanks to the research I already stated that I was doing when I started this terrible thread.)

I am not posting this in disrespect. Just the opposite. I am posting this in hopes that we can all quit yah-yahing about how to set prices. I make a solemn Grumble vow never to ask (publicly at least) again about prices, mark-ups, or anything similar to this topic again.

I got a very few replies that were very helpful in my research. Most were just stabs at each other with rusty blades. (Me included).

Thanks for the advice....needed and otherwise. And thanks for making my day interesting, at least.

I am still,

Joy
 

Jay H

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Rusty blades are very dangerous. You could get lockjaw.

Has anybody ever had lockjaw? I think its just something that moms tell us to keep us from playing with rusty blades. What do moms know?

Carry on.
 

Ron Eggers

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Thanks for the opening, Jay.
thumbsup.gif


Do all of you know when you had your last tetnus shot? Your health insurance should pay for routine vaccinations, and this is a big one.

Anyone who's read all the the self-mutilation threads on The Grumble knows why.
 

puttyboy

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Mecianne: There is absolutely nothing wrong with asking those types of questions, and I hope when you have pricing questions again that you will post them.
You did your homework, gleaned some good information, put them together, and came up with your answer. Thats what its about. You did exactly what your initial question stated. Good work.

Ron: does insurance cover self-mutilation?
 

Ron's dog's flea's brain on acid

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Originally posted by Ron Eggers:

Do all of you know when you had your last tetnus shot? Your health insurance should pay for routine vaccinations, and this is a big one.
Tetanus is a disease caused by the toxin of the bacterium Clostridium tetani that affects the central nervous system, sometimes resulting in death.

Spores of the bacterium Clostridium tetani live in the soil and are found around the world. In the spore form, C. tetani may remain dormant in the soil, and it can remain infectious for more than 40 years. Rusty metals are often blamed for causing tetanus, but it is the tetanus bacteria, and not rust, that causes the disease. You can get tetanus from a shiny piece of metal as easily as from a rusty one.

Infection begins when the spores are introduced into an injury or wound. The spores germinate, releasing active bacteria that multiply and produce a neurotoxin called tetanospasmin. Tetanospasmin selectively blocks inhibitory nerve transmission from the spinal cord to the muscles, allowing the muscles to go into severe spasm. Spasmodic contractions may be so powerful that they tear the muscles or cause compression fractures of the vertebrae.

Without treatment, one out of three affected people die. Tetanus causes approximately five deaths per year in the U.S. Internationally, reports show up to 1 million cases annually.

The incubation period is five days to 15 weeks, with seven days as the average. About 100 cases of tetanus occur every year in the U.S., the vast majority in un-immunized individuals or those whose last immunization was no longer current.

Ron's right. Make sure your tetanus booster is up-to-date.
 

puttyboy

CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Joined
Jan 28, 2005
Posts
283
From
minnesota
I've heard that if one throws a rock in a crowd of people in North Carolina, odds are you'll hit a picture framer.

Is this true Jerry?
 

Rogatory

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
May 8, 2003
Posts
1,077
From
Lubbock, Texas
I got a Tetanus shot a couple of months ago and had to pay out of pocket for it, next time I think I will take a chance on some herbal tea or something (much cheaper). ;)

As for figuring pricing I'm secretly working on a formula using the Fibonacci sequence. It won't make much sense but it will be real purdy!
 

Rogatory

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
May 8, 2003
Posts
1,077
From
Lubbock, Texas
I'll write it in binary so it will be easier to understand:

10011 11000 11011 10111 10011 01110 01011 11111 01001 01001
11110 00001 01011 11100 11100 11100 11000 00001 10000 00101 100
11001 11011 01110 01000 00110 10000 01000 01000 00100 01001
11011 01011 11110 01110 10001 00111 00100 10100 01111 11000 200
01101 10001 10101 00001 00011 10100 00110 00001 10001 11010
01010 10010 01110 11001 11111 10000 10110 00101 01001 11101 300
00100 11110 11011 11111 00000 01101 00011 10000 01000 10110
11010 11011 11110 00110 00001 00111 11110 00000 01100 01000 400
01101 11100 00100 10010 10000 10000 00001 10000 00000 01011
00000 11101 01100 10010 11101 00100 00001 11100 11001 10101 500

Got it?
 

Mike Labbe

Administrator
Forum Support Team
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
Posts
18,229
From
Lincoln, RI
Business
Get The Picture
- .... .. ... .. ... .- - . ... - -- . ... ... .- --. . - --- ... . . .. ..-. .- -. -.-- --. .-. ..- -- -... .-.. . .-. ... .-- .. .-.. .-.. .- -.-. - ..- .- .-.. .-.. -.-- - .- -.- . - .... . - .. -- . - --- ... . . .-- .... .- - .. .- -- ... .- -.-- .. -. --. .-.-.- .... .- ...- . .- .... .- .--. .--. -.-- . .- ... - . .-.

-- .. -.- . --. - .--.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Posts
9,908
From
KY
The last time I tried to get the shot, I was told that my last one hadn't expired yet. I was 18 then and decided that I would never again get another one. I can't handle the rejection.
 

Jay H

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Dec 8, 2003
Posts
9,908
From
KY
010011100110111100100000011011010110000101110100011101000110010101110010001000000111011101101000011000010111010000100000010000100110111101100010001000000111001101100001011110010111 001100101100001000000100100100100111011001000010000001100111011011110010000001110111011010010111010001101000001000000110000100100000001100100010000001110100011010010110110101100101 001000000110110101100001011100100110101101110101011100000010111000100000001000000100100100100111011011010010000001110100011110010111000001101001011011100110011100100000011101000110 100001101001011100110010000001101000011001010111001001100101001000000111001101101111001000000110100001100101001000000110010001101111011011100010011101110100001000000111100101100101 011011000110110000100000011000010111010000100000011011010110010100101110001000000010000001001100011011110111011001100101001000000111100101100001001000000111010001101000011011110111 010101100111011010000010111000100000

The translation can be found HERE
 

Mecianne

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Thread starter
Joined
Jan 7, 2005
Posts
2,229
From
Alabama
Jay----Thanks! That was digitalicious!!!!!! ;)
 
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