Michaels

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Tishaustin

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Is there anybody out there who may have an opinion about Michaels framing. I have worked there for two years and wonder why. They stress quantity and not quality...I'm not sure how long I can go on.
 
Tish . . .use this opportunity to learn how NOT to frame. You have two years in a frame shop, and that could be enough to get you into a more quality-conscious shop for further education.

I know of only a couple of people who have had framing done at our local Mike's, and I am seeing quite a few jobs that are in need of replacement / repair due to warped mats and faulty mounting. I have no personal experience with them.
 
Quality is important...at least in my frame shop....I suggest starting your own frameshop if you love framing as much as I do and you want to turn out quality. Put together a plan and go for it! And in the meantime, do the best you can at your current position. Learn all you can and most of all stay positive. It's a great profession!!!!
 
Welcome aboard, Tishaustin, cfkane and Bonnie, you're in for an illuminating ride.

Seems like your question is less about Michael's (you'll find many opinions about storefronts vs. big box stores vs. home-based, and all the variations, in the archives) than about quality vs. quantity.

You clearly have learned from negative experience, and care that you are unable to produce a quality product. Can you move on to a good shop? Start your own as Bonnie suggests? It appears, based on the fact that you care, that you are now hooked on framing so you may as well give in and find a situation that makes you happy. Depending on the size of your community, there should be options available to you.

Good luck.
 
So, how's the pay, benefits, vacations, hours of work at Mikes. What other jobs have you had and did you enjoy them. Maybe you have a good job.
 
Tishaustin:

*Everyone* has an opinion about Michaels.

Your post hints that you may be considering a change. Maybe that's a good idea -- maybe not -- depends on your objectives.

If you like working for a big company, Michaels may be a good employer. They have a successful marketing approach & aggressive advertising. The company appears to be profitable and well-managed generally. Growth prospects seem good, as far as I know.

Those things can not be said about a lot of smaller framing companies. Instead, we little guys offer a fun work atmosphere, personal creativity & gratification, and customers who love us to pieces. And you might get to own one of us, if that's what you want. Owning a small frame shop is a realistic possibility for many framers.

As you consider your options, know that the framing industry is changing more rapidly now, than ever before. A few years ago Michaels (et al) sparked changes that will continue to drive evolution of our industry. They serve a large -- and getting larger -- segment of retail framing consumers.

Some small, independent framers tend to bash the big-company, aggressive newcomers to our industry. The truth is that we were nearly market-stagnant and waaaay overdue for a shake up. I wonder about the future of veteran framers who think they can continue doing business as they have for the past 10, 20, 30, or however many years. Some suppliers say they're dropping like flies. As total industry revenue is growing at a record pace, numbers of framers are shrinking.

"The times they are a'changin'." So, hang onto your hat and don't lose your head. Keep your eyes and ears open, and follow your heart.

Good luck & happy framing to you.

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Jim Miller, CPFcm; GAFP Committee Member
 
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tishaustin:
.............I'm not sure how long I can go on.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If indeed you're looking for a change, and feel your work ethics are high, please consider heading north........
smile.gif
....We still need another full time employee!

TheGrumble WantAds

Austin and Appleton......we're in the same time zone, if not the same climate zone!
cool.gif


John
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The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
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[This message has been edited by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF (edited October 06, 2000).]
 
Sorry, John, but she doesn't have to go that far north, she can stop in Dallas Fort Worth!
 
To: Jim Miller or others that may know:

Are there any detailed figures on the number of frame shops operating now against 2 years ago? One of my wholesale suppliers told me of a town where his customer list was 26 two years ago and now stands at 7.

Yes, our industry was stagnant and has changed. It may be time to double our frame prices so we can advertise 50% off!

A Michaels opened a few towns away recently and I went in last week. I was amazed at how high their prices were. The big box stores have done such a Wal Mart job of telling people that their prices are low that people actually think their prices are low. A lady picked up an item and said to me " this is such a good price!". I asked if she had ever bought one before and she said "no". I asked how she knew it was a good price. She answered "Well it must be a good price!"

I guess I might have to learn how to fool my customers.
 
No Rocket Science here it is

MARKETING
MARKETING

and MORE MARKETING

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
For the benefit of the framers here who do not reside in USA (There are a few of us!) can someone please explain what exactly is a 'Michaels'?????


**** Never argue with an idiot because they will drag you down to their level and then they'll beat you with experience. ****

[This message has been edited by osgood (edited October 07, 2000).]
 
I truly hate Michaels for a number of reasons... I won't go into it all or my stress level will rise. As a corporation, they do not care about the frame shops. They do not treat their employes well. They employ poor framing techniques. One thing they are , though, is CHEAP. Someone posted that the prices were not cheap, but they certainly are in the 3 geographical areas I have had experience with. They manufacture their own mouldings- knockoffs of the big boys.
I better stop.


[This message has been edited by amanda (edited October 08, 2000).]
 
Amanda is partly right about Michael's. I have a former mid-range employee that now runs their framing dept. She often complains that as soon as the get the most basic training, a lot of them leave as "experienced" for other shops, where they will get paid more, but are little more than apprentice-level. The market they strive for is the lower end segment(they are welcome to most of it)and what we see as cheaper is really less than most of you do. Just like Sizzlin' Sirloin, they market to that clientele.We do shop them semi-annually, and use them as a training aid in the "how not to do it" model. We send our most novice employees, so they can see first hand their service. Usually the design person is the framer and is not happy about leaving the back to help anyone. Most often, you're interferring with their work( in their mind) and it shows. So the help/bid you get is the quickest, cheapest way to do the project. When you press them for something nicer, more creative their prices are mid-range. Coupled with their slow delivery, it's not a serious threat. Have you lost a good customer to them? I don't think we have. But to the market they cater to, they do a superior job. It's just not a market that appeals to us, and it probably shouldn't be for you either. If you get into a hatchet fight, the guy with the smallest hatchet usually loses.
 
So has anyone check? Is Michaels more or less than the bulk of us??

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
If you care about your craft, Michaels and Aaron Brothers are the best friend you have.
They clearly demonstrate to a customer who wants design and quality what they don't want. Even on our worst mood days, I mean major wrong side of the bed day, we are going to give better service, better design, and deliver a better product than they ever got at the " Big Guys ". Price has little to do with it. Once they have shopped Big Box, they are going to love us. The customers that don't come back to one of us are probobly the ones that cost us the most in time and profit. I'll say it again, if you had a store right across the street from one of them, you would have more business than you could handle. They have the ability to anger more customers in an hour than we do in a year, and they do it. We should start lending them money so they can open more stores, they're the best friends we have.
John
 
Surely the only reason that these Big Box stores survive is because they sell stuff, this simply isn't possible if there is no product to offer that is of (percevibly) the same value as others around. We are all responsible for businesses and corporations like this taking over the world, how many of you use big box stores or corporates (supermarkets, Windows, Ford) on a daily basis? Their product must therefore be just as good as yours.
By the way, Why don't cannibals eat clowns?
Because they taste funny!
(sorry couldn't resist, it's such a funny joke!)
 
Oh I do love those customers who have been to Michaels and then find me. I've shopped them before and found the prices comparable, but never the service.
 
I'm sure every town has a great little hamburger joint that you just love to go to. Nobody makes them as good as they do. They've been there forever and you just love them. The character is unique and the smell is sure to bring a smile to your face. Then why do McDonald's and Burger King and the rest sell billions and billions, and just as assuredly those hamburger joints go out of business with alarmingly predictability? The big box guys (including Michael's,etc) have the thing down to a science and we all use them (or they wouldn't be in business). You have to quit trying to compete with that market and focus on your own niche. Sadly, just like that favorite hamburger stand that your parents took you to as a kid is no longer in business, we, too might be in a one generation business. Bottom line: Carve out a niche, be as successful as possible. We ultimately are competiting for the same pie.

[This message has been edited by Bob Carter (edited October 09, 2000).]
 
So Bob how are we different than pharmacies. They may has used some of the same rationalizations??

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Rumor! I've been told that a large % of Michaels store are not profitable and they are worried out about that fact. A few stores are doing great but not enough. They got a ton of money from going public but if they can't show a big return then maybe they'll be the next Ben Franklin.

That big overhead has got to hurt the bottom line.
 
Yes...0% profit on $2,000,000 is the same as 0% profit on $200,000. They will just have more inventory to give back to their creditors. Yet I too have gained many thankful and now loyal customers from a "Michaels experience".
 
Am I mistaken or have we gone full circle on this conversation? Wasn't just a short time ago When AL advised us all to "FIND OUR NICHE" and didn't she advise us that the Big Boxes had no effect on her "FINE ART NICHE"?
Please don't get me wrong I think all of these issues are relavant to us all but sometimes we would do well to look back at what was said by others and to take the advise that teaches us to be proud of what ever we do as long as it is the best that we can do .And not to try to compete with LOW prices of the BIG guys that have "$2MIL" in inventory .Isn't this just what they want?
Charles 'Buddy' Drago
 
Art Lady- I'm not sure I really understand your question, but not understanding the question has never stopped me before. If your question is do we as small(in most cases really small) business owners share a similar fate to the old corner pharamacy, yes, if we try to compete with the Walgreen's of the market. As a child growing up, my really good friend's dad was a pharamacist and owned his own drug store. He was, in our eyes, the richest man in the world. He owned his own business.That building was leveled years ago and I haven't kept up with Don for years. In it's place and several other buildings, went up a Walgreen's (you know 24/7 type of mega store) and the truth is they are providing a much better service to the community than Don's dad did. Oh sure, he was a decent guy and knew his customers by name. He sponsored the little league teams and was a nice guy. But today, Walgreen's offers so much more to the market in product, pricing and availability, and the market has responded. Without being to remorse about the good old days, is that the comparison you're looking for. It might be the only one I can think of. But the bottom line: Don's family did well for many years doing what they did best. That's the salvation for our trade in this rapidly changing environment.
 
Perhaps we should find ways that we can better serve the community and raise our visibility. Anyone have any ideas?

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.
 
Art Lady- With all due respect What's your point? These are all signs of the market doing exactly what markets are suppossed to do, really nothing sinister. But if you think a trade as diverse, fragmented and ill-equipped as we, can change much in our favor is a little pollyannish.Do the little things you can to make your business better, and that includes,first and foremost, being a better businessperson. I'll bet that there probably isn't a framer with more than a years experience that is probably isn't as competent at cutting a vgroove or mounting a poster as they will ever be. But I'll bet that most of the same people don't have a clue on calculating cost of goods or turnover. My point is simple: Do the things that can make you better(skill wise and profit-wise). Leave the things out of your control alone. But if you're looking for any magic missive from our trade, it's just not going to happen. Remember, the trade organizations and publications are doing exactly what they should. They are providing to their market what their market requires. Nothing more nothing less. Until that bar is raised, it's more of the same.And if you are not moving forward, you are falling behind in this environment
 
I worked at a Michael's when it was in its previous incarnation as Leewards (in Paramus NJ) They tended to stress speed over quality, and all the framers there were underpaid and overworked. In addition, the company policies on dress (they wanted me to cut my chest-length hair and shave) were restrictive and very hard to get around. If they've instituted some kind of faux CPF program, I'd love to hear more about it and what brought around this apparent change in quality/quantity issues!

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Seth J. Bogdanove, CPF
21 years framing and still loving it
 
Hey out there! Thank you for all the input. I will learn from MIchael's and someday I hope to have my own little shop. I love framing! It is literally in my blood. My grandmother did it, my mother tought me and I will pass on that passion. Meanwhile, I am underpaid and overworked at the "big box".
 
Take heart, oh underpaid and overworked framer! The Goddess Herself spent 2 years at a now-defunct (
smile.gif
)craft store chain. I was of course underpaid and overworked as well, but I was lucky in that the "Management" was askard of the framing dept. and left me alone! Which was one of the best things to ever happen to me professionally. I was able to deal with customers as I saw fit (this was before computers) and I watched that little framing counter turn into a big money maker. For which, of course I was not at all financially rewarded. Which is what propelled me into self-employment... and gave me the self-confidence to persevere. ALSO, the emphasis on speed was quite useful to me because I tend to be a bit TOO laid-back (yes, the Goddess has Her Lazy Moments) and this experience really helped me to FOCUS on what and how I was getting work done.I love being able to get framing done flawlessly and rapidly-- to me, this is efficency- eliminating unnecessary steps and refining your focus. So, The Goddess says take what you can out of this experience and maybe you can become a Goddess like me...! And think about the framing kingdom that will be your dominion soon!!
 
Wow, I feel your pain. Today is my first time to this site. I'm currently employed with a company that would like to put Michaels out of business in the worst way. They would like to be larger. Unfortunately I live on a small island where this company is putting many others out of business. Moral is in the gutter, all management wants is $ coming in. I'm responsible for making sure that all the redo's are taken care of & sent out the way they should have the first time. We get approx. 50 a week! Very difficult when our production department doesn't get the training they need. I could replace "Michael's" with my company name in most of the previous replys. Scarry for me. Good luck to you.
 
I know this is a bit devious but this thread was started by a Michael's employee. So Tishautin, how about shopping Michaels for us and a few other secrets.

I am shopping Michaels just because I am curious. The nearest one is 150 miles away but I drop in as I go by. They have a framed print on display with a sign that reads regular price 561.00 but with 50% off the frame the price is ONLY 396.00. That makes the frame 330.00. I don't recognize the moulding but I sell similar mouldings for a lot less. In fact we have quesstimated that a similar job in our shop would be about 300.00. Thanks to Michaels for scaring customers back to us. This is where I get the idea that their prices are not exactly low.
 
I seem to reframe a lot of Michael's jobs. It never fails, everytime I open the frame up, it is mounted with cardboard. Not a bad idea to save money you say? Usually the cardboard says "Fresh Florida Oranges". Now that's cheap!!
 
I had a friend who managed a couple of stores and he said they were happy to break even with the framing dept as long as they got people in the store for craft stuff. I get a lot of mat, glass, fitting redos from Michael. their only allowed to do a complete frame job where I'm at. They also have an ongoing add offering 50% off the molding on any frame job. Doesn't LJ still give them a big discount. I know they use to. I even have had people come in with ready made they bought at Michaels and have me finish the framing . I don't care. H--l a bucks a buck.
 
Last Saturday I was my first Michael's customer. They opened down the road last fall. She was terrible put off by one of their employees. She had four projects to do. She left one there and was regreting it. She gave me two and left one for the future budget. I had heard rumors about bad attitudes over there but the direct confirmation was interesting.

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Timberwoman
AL
I cut the mat, I pet the =^..^= cat.

[This message has been edited by ArtLady (edited October 19, 2000).]
 
I started working for a place in Canada called Regis Pictures and Frames. At that time I had only about 8 months experience from another small shop. After a week at Regis, I got an offer from an independent shop. I turned it down because Regis offered medical and dental benefits. After a second week, I found myself working in a mall selling frames that were cut and assembled at a warehouse across town. After that week I called the small shop to ask if the offer was still available. I quit Regis that day, and worked for the small shop for 8 years. I learned the craft in a way Regis wouldn't even come close to. I met artists and gallery owners, and became a skilled framer.
I have repaired or re-framed many, many frames from Regis in my time. If you want to learn the trade, find a shop that is more concerned with quality.
 
Looked at the Michael's web site and came up with the following information.

Currently:
755 Michaels
148 Aaron Brothers
1 Star Wholesales
(Two new chains starting this year, one a scrap booker)

Average sales per store 3.828 million. Up 2% from 2002. Total net income 140.3 million with $1.99 earnings per share. Margin @ 9.4%. Goal for 2006 is 4.6 million per store with a total of about 1100 stores in 2008.

In 2002 store sales breakdowns are as follows:
General Crafts 26%
Art Supplies 20%
Picture Framing 19%
Silk and Dried Flowers 15%
Seasonal 11%
Hobby, Party, Candles 9%

From what I gather, the picture framing noted above is "Custom Framing". Ready mades ect are grouped in General Crafts.

It was too long to write down but in the annual report they specifically talk about the competition. Many of the issues are addressed above but they specifically target mom and pop shops and will out market, spend and advertise them until their demise. They claim that the products they sell are in a total market place of 30 billion dollars in sales per year.

We have all talked about quality issues and we continue to get Michaels customers (especially the disatisfied ones). The key is can we capture enough to stop the juggernaut before it's too late!

I have a friend who is a regional person at Michaels. Right now each location in his district is running at just under 400 custom frame jobs per week! JoAnne Ect, which another former employee works at is running about 300 custom frame jobs per week! Michael's and Joanne's at least in this market place are usually within a couple of miles from each other.

If you take 700 frame jobs per week out of any given geographic area the effects on the custom frame shop are tremendous.

Just some fyi and it certainly may be different in other parts of the country.
 
They manufacture their own mouldings- knockoffs of the big boys.
Click to expand...
I have heard this mentioned before. If they are indeed knocking off the big boys, why haven't we heard of Michael's being taken to court over copyright infringement? Why is Michael's immune?
 
Some Michaels Math

$3,828,000 annual per store sales.

$727,320 annual framing sales.

$13,986 weekly framing sales.

$34.96 average per job @ 400 jobs per week.
 
FrameMakers: Thanks for doing the math. Like I said the $'s are from their annual report, the 400 frame jobs right now are from a friend. That's 400 right now in his district. It could be 60 if they are off ad.
 
They haven't been "off ad" for some time in our market.
 
They go off ad here quite often, although I have noticed some stores then will run an extended in store sale. If they go off ad for about three weeks and JoAnne's Ect. run their ad then Michael's will run about six consecutive weeks.
 
An insider's thought...

At the BB I work at (HL), they have run a 1/2 off custom framing sale every month this year. That sale ran last week...this week, the readymade frames are 1/2 off. WE ARE TIRED. Corporate wants us to stay 14 days out, but how can you do that when all of your framers are out on the counter taking in orders? It's as though the higher-ups have forgotten we're human and are only looking for the $$$. Oh yeah, no overtime. :(

Sorry about the grumbling....hard day today!
 
The 19% done in picture framing is both actual custom framing and all their readymades. The readymades do not fall into the general crafts area. From what I recall most stores sales in the custom frame area were between $200,000 and $400,000. The cost of inventory which includes their custom displays,materials and work in process is about $7000 to $10,000. It also looks like they have reduced what they carry on hand in mats from what they did in the past.
 
There's no way Michaels is doing 400 frames a week except in rare instances. I just talked to our people and we avarage around 200 frames a week with a staff of 9. We're not overworked but that's what it takes. In the two weeks before Christmass, we can do 300+ a week but we're getting close to overworked with a good bit of overtime. Our weekly sales are about what Michaels does 13 to 16K throughout the year.

The small guy can, and easily, compete with BB framers. I'm convinced or I would be liquidating my framing assests and I'm not even thinking about it. I can compete with 'em in quality, service, and, importantly, price. In these three areas, I know we have a large competitive advantage. And we're not nich framers; we're broad bassed. We sell everything from $3 a foot moulding to AbbMunn frames.

To compete, we have to stock moulding and buy in large quantities (we never, never order less than 2,000 and frequently in the 6 to 7000' range to keep freight costs down). We have at least 3,000 sheets of matboard in stock and an agreement with a supplier to service us twice a week. We buy glass in 2000lb cases at something like .32 sq ft. I know no Michaels can compete with un on the price of moulding, matboard, glass. WE have production equipment in our frame making dept: Cassesse joiners (3), Pistorius double miter saws (2), a Cassese double miter saw that can cut 6" wide moulding and we stock wide moulding. We've got 3 Oneida Air cyclone dust collectors and a big air scrubber to keep dust down during cutting. No Michaels shop can match that and the speed and flexibility it givs us. And the heck of it is, we don't have an onerous capital investment.

I mentioned in an earlier post that small guys have a worker advantage. Our main mat cutter (other than the Wizard which only cuts the complicated stuff) has been with us for 25 years. Our frame maker for 14. And they're both real good at their jobs. Only one employee has been with us less than a year and the next to her has been onboard for 8 years. No BB framer can come close to our crew.

We're in a small town in a low income area, south eastern North Carolina. We can only attract from north, west and south; there's nothing but Atlantic Ocean to the east of us. Until recently there was no Interstate highway into Wilmington.

There may be trouble for the small shops taking chop orders and existing on the mercy of LJ to get supplies to them on an as need basis but for serious small time framers like us, I can't see any threat. About 8 years ago representitives of Frame Warehouse came to Wilmington to scout out the area. They wanted to see our warehouse, cabinet, framemaking shop. I said, let 'em look all they want. They even checked out moulding prices looking at the backs of samples. They didn't open a store here.

There's no way a BB frame shop with distant management can compete with a motivated small shop, no way. Warren
 
I love it when people use real world numbers. You can pull back the fluff and get to the pure un-varnished truth.

Warren doubts Michael's numbers, I don't.

But lets use the same dissection of Warren's numbers that we delight with Michael's. He states he averages 200 pcs a week for an average of $15k a week. That's $75 per piece average.

He will do approx 10,400 jobs in a year (200/wk) yet he stocks 3,000 mats that he replinshes twice a week. I think a little inventory management would increase that turnover significantly.

At $75/pc average, I'm not sure how many of those use mats, either.

I could go on, but you see how easy it is to dissect the numbers to point out ineffeciencies. But, with Warren and Michael's we need to tip our hats and acknowledge that these operators do have excellent operations that do numbers that boggle the average.

We need to focus on what they do correctly and see how it might apply in our own operations. But to dissect for the pure fun offers no challenge and certainly no improvement in our own businesses.

If it's all about pointing out what we feel they do wrong, we can make a much longer list. For me, I would rather visit Warren and try and pick his brain on the things he does right-same as I do when I go to Michael's
 
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