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BUDDY

BUDDY

SPFG, Supreme Picture Framing God
Founding Member
Joined
Nov 23, 1997
Posts
11,973
Loc
Mandeville, LA USA
Business
retired
I would like to make a point that may have gotten lost or confused in a recent post.
Some have insinuated that framers who care about Conservation or who proudly display deignations after their names are thumbing their noses at other framers or worse insinuating that those who aren't the same are in some way inferior.
I can assure you nothing is further from the truth.
Let me start with the conservation concerned framers.How many times have we on the Grumble asked Orton questions like this ? No one has ever said you MUST fame this way but aren't you glad to Know how to from someone who is so experienced ? And if not why do you waste everyon's time asking?
Next let's talk about people who like me are proud of our hard work and display the designation that signifies our efforts to learn CPF TM.
Some would have you belive that these framers are Elitest who look down their noses at all others. Well lets examine this thought.Do you know that many of the Grumblers are the same people and that they frequently try to help many of you with the very questions you want answered?They don't do this for any secert motive. They do this so that all framers can share and there by further the quality of the craft.
I am not the only PPFA CPF that participates on both Forums .Did you know that some of the others are: James Miller, John Ranes , Merrill Greyson,and MEL to name a few that I know you will recoginize.
The reason that you are seeing TM behind the CPF lately is that some other groups want to claim the same designation and there by confuse the consumers so it has been Trade Marked.This is not some conceted attempt to impress others.
But most of all No One who I know that is formally attached to the CPF designation has ever insinuated that those who choose not to be Certified, PPFA members or not, are Inferior framers.I and the others wouldn't be posting here if we thought this .As has been said no one can make you actually do correct framing in your shop this is an effort to be sure that framers know what is considered to be best at this time and it is being upgraded constantly.It is very similar to what you do here with out a testing proceedure.Education is what PPFA does best along with networking but just like here when I leave you have no control over what I actually do.
Why can't we all understand that just like the Grumble has posters we wish we would be free of so does everyone else .No group has a corner on any aspect of the trade ,Knowledeg as well good members.So why don't we share with those who are trying to better the CRAFT ?
Charles "Buddy" Drago CPF TM
I'll get off my soap box and wait for your responses and wetheryou can accept me and the others .

[This message has been edited by BUDDY (edited 03-25-2000).]
 
I ought to start a club, and name it: HBPCFA TM (Home-Based Professional Custom Framers Association TM) This association would require members NOT to be associated with CPF TM, CPF, PPFA, Etc.
http://members.aol.com/ssdetail/crazy.html

[This message has been edited by ajhohen (edited 03-25-2000).]
 
Buddy and friends;

To those of you who have initials that are important to display, please continue to do so.
I have two sets of initials from two degrees that I have earned,(not cpf). I belong to two professional organizations and could display those organizations in a title behind my name. I don't. If I did it would start with BS, I don't feel a need for that type of validation. I do understand that it is important to some people to tell others who they are. as you can see I am better off if I don't.
However, I do feel it is important for some to identify their accomplishments and skills to others. The only example I can think of at this time, would be the letters. M.D..



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As it seems I am one of the some, not intented though. The comment really got me going mainly because there is such a person in my area that does have those beliefs, apologies to all. I am certain that most people that follow this forum are very good framers who take PRIDE in their work and are prepared to learn more opinions.
 
I truly do not understand all the negative comments that have been shown over the CPF designation on the Grumble over the past several days.

As we all know, to frame professionally (retail OR home-based) one does not NEED to write the CPF exam. Throughout this discussion, I think we are forgetting about the positive aspect of the PPFA and the CPF test.

Many professions have a level of knowledge which must be gained before they are able to or allowed to operate in their field of expertise ..... think about that brain surgery again with a surgeon without his "ticket", or the teacher or the electrician. Framing is an area where it IS possible to work without a "ticket" but it is certainly more difficult to start if you have not had the experience of working with or under an experienced framer/mentor.

No where can a novice or experienced framer as easily pull together as vast a wealth of framing information and knowledge as for studying for the CPF exam. (And I do realize that studying for the exam is NOT easy!) Whether the initials are important to you or not will decide as to whether you will "sit" the exam. By choosing to use this designation does not, and should not, mean that you are any better than any other framer. What it does show, is that you have a general framing knowledge base. A base of information, which should you ever find yourself applying for a position in someone else's shop rather than your own, could be very important.

Let's remember, all framers must start to gather their vast amount of information somewhere. I DO realize that everything I need to know about framing will NOT come strictly from writing this test. Those of you who are anti-CPF may not agree and that is your perogative, but personally I feel that by cracking those books and studying for the CPF I will gain a good overall knowledge (basic as it might be), and that is certainly a good way to start!
 
Buddy,

Buddy, I am honored that you have believed me to be certifiable, however, I am not. Yet, that is. As for the subject: Knowledge is my main goal as a member of the PPFA Exchange and as a member of The Grumble. Also important are the friendships developing here. As for flaunting credentials, my BS in Philosophy lends credibility to my agreement with Buddy. He is simply stating that those with CPF's have the knowledge necessary to take, and have taken and passed, the CPF test. Those who have not, may have more knowledge or less, and have not taken the CPF test. Nothing more or less can be stated to be true about us as a group.
 
Where I came from, the term "certifiable" meant something entirely different: we all had relatives we thought fit the appellation.

But, no matter to that: that pesky exam keeps making me feel guilty for not having taken it yet. Soon.......soon.
smile.gif
 
Ajhohen:

When you start your HBPCFA, what will you say to all of those home-based PPFA members and home-based CPFcm's you exclude?

I agree with Buddy and Calley. Earning a CPFcm designation takes a lot of work, to study and pass the exam, and then maintain certification.

Earning the CPFcm designation is for framers who want to earn the industry's only designation that represents an advanced level of framing education. Their fortitude should be commended.

About 40 out of 100 framers have to take the exam more than once to succeed. I know 3 long-time framers who decided to take the exam in years past. All of them thought their years of shop experience would substitute for book-study and carry them through. It didn't, and they all failed the first time.

One of them is still embarrassed about not passing the first time, and claims that if his answers weren't right, then the questions must be wrong. He probably won't try again.

Another framer realized her need for more knowledge, and began to work at it. She kept studying and passed her second try. She ended up with her own shop.

The third framer hasn't taken the second exam yet, but plans to do it soon.

The CPFcm designation is no guarantee that a framer will do the best work. It is, however, concrete assurance that he/she has the necessary knowledge to do it...and the fortitude to advance. It's a lot like earning a college degree.

People with college degrees aren't usually thought to be "elitists" -- although maybe more serious about their work than those who choose not to earn degrees. Why shouldn't CPFcm's be considered the same way?

------------------
James Miller,PPFA-CPF; PPFA Certification Board Member; FACTS/GAFP Committee Member
 
Bye.

[This message has been edited by ajhohen (edited 03-28-2000).]
 
I'm ever so grateful for all of those people who frame those certificates and diplomas. I'm glad they feel the need to display them but I've no less respect for those who don't.

There are imposters in any profession, even those with an M.D. Thanks Buddy.

[This message has been edited by JPete (edited 03-27-2000).]
 
Calley: The CPF exam is anything but basic. I agree that being a framer for 10 years does not give you the knowledge to pass the test. There are certain things that the exam thinks you should know which gives you an upper edge on the overall framing industry. The electricians have a Master Electrician Test, the plumbers have the Master Plumbers Test. As with all studies there is a lot in the books that we need to know to pass the tests and then never use that information again. BUT if we ever need to use it at least we will know where to look in the book.
Miller: I think you put it as well as it can be stated.
I once heard it said by a wise ole gentleman:
It's not the name that matters, it's what comes after the name.
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
Zorro:Please have the curtisy to post your email address so that we can speak to you without botering the rest of the Grumble.
BUDDY
 
In any profession there are people who do the job because they know how and there are people who do the job because they know why. There are physicians' assistants who can do the same thing as a doctor, but always have to consult with the doctor before they make any major decisions. There are teachers' assistants who teach as much as a teacher but do not hold the degree that makes them responsible. There are technicians and there are technologists. The difference is that the one group of people do not know why things are done, and are not qualified to make some decisions specifically based on knowledge. They only know how to go through the actions.

I am not a CPF, but I do have the books to read and hopefully will be able to get some time to finish reading them and someday take the test, not because I want those letters behind my name, but because I want to know all I can to be able to not make mistakes in framing. I read the two trade magazines every month, I took the basic framing class, and try to get to other classes when I can, and I read the Grumble religiously. But those resources don't have all of the information that these books have.

I respect the people who have those letters behind their names and hope that if I have a question to ask that they have retained that knowledge that helped them to pass the test and can give me the correct information about any subject that I need. Unfortunately, I am sure that this knowledge is not the end of what we will need to know to keep up to date with framing.

The one thing that I do not like is people flaunting their knowledge and trying to make people think that they are superior, because whereever you go there will always be someone else who knows more. Also, what we know as truth today may not be a truth tomorrow.

I appreciate the ideas and knowledge that are passed around on the Grumble, from CPF's and non-CPF's alike.

P. Christensen (formerly PegLeg)
 
P.Christensen said that he/she wants to become a CPFcm, "...not because I want those letters behind my name, but because I want to know all I can...". Bravo! That's what drives CPFcm's to work toward certification, and then keep going with the program. P.Christensen, you have the right idea -- good luck in your studies. By the way, PPFA has a scholarship program for prospective CPFcm's. If cost is an issue and you would like to apply for that financial aid, contact PPFA in Richmond, ppfa@ppfa.com.

If there are any CPFcm's out there who see no value in improving their abilities, and think "the letters behind my name" is enough of a motive to become certified, I haven't met one yet. It's one heck of a lot of work to do for such a flimsy motive, so such a vanity freak would quit long before achieving certification.

Anyone who thinks "those letters behind my name" is the only motive for certification is missing the point. The CPFcm program is about helping framers improve their abilities, helping them increase their value to customers (and employers), and raising the standards of the industry.

That's not "elitist". It's just good business. And it's good for the industry. As Buddy said earlier, on the many occasions when CPFcm's answer questions, share new knowledge and ideas with others in forums like this one, it's good for all.

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Jim Miller,holder of CPFcm designation; FACTS/GAFP Committee Member
 
Peg, I always liked that PegLeg name: nice to see you post again: been someplace doing good things, probably.

I know I'm losing my acuity, but where did I miss the explanation of the "cm" behind CPF? "TM" is understandable: what's the other? Sorry to be so dense.
 
Don't worry MM you're not the only one who's feeling dense today. I've been guessing at it's meaning and the best I could come up with is "cucumber melon".
 
Not that it's important since the Initials aren't what counts but how we treat each other with or without them.
But for those who care TM = trade marked, CM= certified mark,and a circle with a R in it = registered.All of which in some progression have or will be used by the PPFA in an attempt to seperate their CPF designation Legaly from any other. Yes they are planning to defend it's use with out permission in the Courts.
BUDDY

[This message has been edited by BUDDY (edited 03-29-2000).]
 
Does anybody KNOW of an organization or individual currently engaged in un-authorized use of cpf?

AAron Bros. has it's own certifcation program, but when you pass (however difficult it may be) you are a Certified Master Framer.

Heck, I'd rather be certified as a Master Picture Framer instead of just Picture Framer.

Trade-marked or not. Master or not. Neither does anything to actually protect the consumer.

Framing crimes commited daily, Caertified or not.

With Love,
Framer X
 
Framer X:

You say you'd rather be certified as a "Master Framer" instead of just "Picture Framer". Does the name of the educational program make a difference? No, it's the content of the program that matters. Those letters behind the name only represent a level of achievement and identify the education it came from.

You say "Neither does anything to protect the consumer."

No educational program, in *any* industry, protects consumers. No college diploma offers consumer protection. Consumer protection is first a matter of ethics in practice, and then law takes over when ethics fail. Buyer beware.

What protection do you think custom framing consumers need? How would you propose to protect them? Are you suggesting that framers be required to undergo some test and be granted a license? If so, what entity would you have grant the licenses?

Education is to provide practitioners (framers) more knowledge and ability to do their work. It is sought by some framers voluntarily, not mandated.

No framer is forced to become educated about framing; indeed, there are some quite ignorant framers in our world. But for those who want to improve, the educational programs are now available.

A well-educated framer is a direct benefit to consumers, but education promises no protection.

------------------
Jim Miller,holder of CPFcm designation; FACTS/GAFP Committee Member
 
Where is all this wind coming from?

It looks like it's coming from the CPF direction!

I am sorry, but it looks like the "initialers" are living up to their sterotypical behavior.
 
Ben, thanks for your insightful contribution to the discussion.

Should this forum be left to the resentful anonymous? Naaahhh.

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Jim Miller,holder of CPFcm designation; FACTS/GAFP Committee Member
 
I breezed through the comments here and would like to say that, when I first logged on, I purposefully kept my designations off this list and usually do on other forums. for the simple reason that, initials or not, I am young and have miles to go... I am here to learn and share. I have met so many great framers without any designations much more deserving of them than I and would like to have their input without any preconceived ideas of who I am based on my "initials". I would like to be able to ask stupid questions without people thinking "Damn, I thought she was a CPF". My designations were added on this forum to my name without my request and so I was "outed". I still have a lot to learn and come here and elsewhere to find the answers to being a better framer!
 
OK

If I'm writing a letter to my sister in Maryland, I don't use the initials, but if I'm corresponding to other professional framers, I use the initials

No matter what, I'm NOT dropping the II at the end of my name, otherwise people might think it's my father who's writing.....

..............wait a minute....., he's got "initials", too! LTC, USA Ret
Oh, Well.

John

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______________________________________
The Frame Workshop of Appleton, Inc.
www.theframeworkshop.com
Appleton, Wisconsin
jerserwi@aol.com
______________________________________

[This message has been edited by John Ranes II, CPF, GCF (edited 04-05-2000).]
 
He! He! He! thats funny John, Signed,Bro.Bones P.H.D. (pin headed dope)
 
Hey! is this some kind of trick someone typed pin headed dope after my initials!!! Oh well someone call ORTON-wonkanobie hes our only hope! he he he peace to all
 
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