mats that ripple in frame package

jangal

Grumbler
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Posts
20
Loc
Minnesota
I have a customer that dislikes the framing he had done elsewhere and wants all new. The photographs are dry-mounted and matted in frames and the mats just won't lay flat! They are rag mats and fit into metal frames with premium clear glass (not too tight, not too loose I might add).

I love the opportunity to sell a entirely new frame package to him, but how can I be sure I am doing away with the problem? Is it the type of photo print (like a C-print) or something in the board they are mounted to, or the combination of both that can cause the mats to do this?

It would be great to solve this mystery as I have a corporate client that is having the same trouble with over 50 photographs they have displayed in ther offices.
 
Moisture and tight fitting are 2 of the major culprits that cause mats to buckle/ripple. The office environment should be fairly dry, I would imagine, but the other piece may have been hung in a bathroom or somewhere where the humidity is fairly high and the ventilation is less than adequate.

Also, some framers ATG/glue down the mats to the backing boards and sometimes this can restrict the natural tendency of mats to expand and contract with environmental changes. As they pick up moisture, they have to go somewhere and, if they are held down around the edges with ATG or other adhesives, they will expand inward causing the buckling.

Framerguy
 
Goddess - are you saying that Spring Clips are the problem or the solution???

I have often found that spring clips make mats buckle, even with foam core backing, and now I mostly use strips of foam wedged under the back of metal frames.
 
Mar,
Spring clips are definitely the problem!
I don't think I've ever seen a mat (esp. rag) in a metal frame fitted with spring clips that didn't ripple.
They need to be recycled as, as, as, hmmm, I don't know, maybe jewelry? Wretched things.

edie the plustheyllboingoutofaframeandrightintoyoureyeifyournotcareful goddess
 
The Goddess rules!

Ditch the spring clips, fill (but don't overfill) the package with fomecore or - better still - Coroplast, and you'll not only give the mats the room to expand and contract with humidity changes to avoid buckling, but you'll discourage some of the bugs and dust that accumulate in the channel between the clips.

You might even save an eye. Ever dismantle a metal frame and forget to remove one of the spring clips? It either breaks the glass or, more often, pops out and hits you in the eye.

Ask me how I know that.

Edit: Ha! I just read the rest of Edie's post. Great minds, and all that.
 
I actually got clipped by one of those spring clips myself. Ouch. At the risk of setting myself up for public ridicule I do use the spring clips about 75% of the time. If I can add a scrap matboard or piece of foamcore behind the package I will. I don't recall ever having any I've done brought back due to rippling mats. That includes the Michael's years, or as I like to call them "My years of living dangerously".

I do make sure most of the spring has sprung in these clips. I'll bend them so they are only putting slight pressure to hold the package together.

There, I've said it. I'm ready for public ridicule.
 
Another problem w/ spring clips is that if your customer tried to change out the frame himself, and didn't realize that it was held together w/ those little gems from h*** he could possibly break the glass - damaging the artwork and most likely damaging himself. We had a customer do that and got a nasty cut for their efforts!
 
Ron uses Ripple a lot while he frames, unless there's a sale on Thunderbird ("What's the price? Fifty twice!") or Mad Dog 20-20.
 
I'l stand shoulder to shoulder with Kathy on spring clips - although I'm down to using them maybe 40% of the time now - and I ALWAYS take a little of the "spring" away first by flexing them backwards before installation.

Sometimes - I use foam core in the bottom and springs in the top and sides - just to help customers with the dust problem! It all depends on the frame, size, whatever...I play it as I sees it!
 
jangal I agree about the propable problem being the clips ,But i think one of the major causes of their being such a pain is when the Mat/mount board /art wotk aren't all the same lengths and widths.

by this imean if there are any gaps in the package or if the previous framer tried to save a penny by making the second or third mat too much smallet then the clips that are exerting pressure from the rear sort of PINCH the package and bow tje front mats which over time may cause rippling. Also if the owner hung the work ina damp area ( shudder the thought ,in the John ,or in front of an A/C duct) then the glass will sweat and the clips will press the mat against the moisture changing Glazing and absorb a lot of this dampness ,and we all know what that will do.

I always shudder when redoing some one elses work .so i am always sure to open it in front of the customer so i can point out ALL the errors and instruct them on what those may have done.Otherwise it may look like it was MY fault later.
BUDDY
BUDDY
 
In an effort to make the back as pretty as the front, I find using filler strips of f/c, etc. takes quite a bit longer than spring clips. We've rather stopped using the clips unless it's a truly cheapie work-up.

But figuring the depth of rabbet to be filled, cutting the filler strips, matching the lengths to the widths, pushing them in without smooshing the edge of the backbevel, taping them invisibly because if you do it right, you need a little wiggle room which means they may slip out if you don't tape, adding a matboard strip if it's too loose....well, you get the idea. At first I thought I was inept: now I think it just takes a lot longer. (I'm tired out again. sigh)
 
I tried to wade through all responses - if I've missed this, apologies:

Although we do dislike spring clips, we've never encountered a mat buckling problem with pieces that we've framed. (Last week, in fact, I had the opportunity to see a piece we framed over 25 years ago, matted with spring clips ... perfectly flat!)

In our experience, (as others have mentioned) moisture seems to be the primary culprit with mat buckling...

Pieces that have been backed with corrugated cardboard are especially affected in this way. Corrugated seems to readily draw moisture in, and transfer it to the matting via capillary action...

Pieces brought in with mat buckling, which have been backed with foam board or coroplast, have almost always been subjected to an inordinate amount of moisture.

Best of luck!
 
Originally posted by MerpsMom:
In an effort to make the back as pretty as the front, I find using filler strips of f/c, etc. takes quite a bit longer than spring clips. We've rather stopped using the clips unless it's a truly cheapie work-up.

But figuring the depth of rabbet to be filled, cutting the filler strips, matching the lengths to the widths, pushing them in without smooshing the edge of the backbevel, taping them invisibly because if you do it right, you need a little wiggle room which means they may slip out if you don't tape, adding a matboard strip if it's too loose....well, you get the idea. At first I thought I was inept: now I think it just takes a lot longer. (I'm tired out again. sigh)
Cathy,

The secret to adding filler strips in lieu of spring clips is to make them just snug enough to stay in place but not so tight to "smoosh" the foam core. If you cut the top strip the full length of the frame, then measure (slide in) the vertical strips until they butt up against the top ones and clip them off to fit into the sides, you can then make the bottom strip so that it holds in both the bottom corners of the side strips. If they are snug, they shouldn't slip out sideways (the top of the vertical strips) under normal handling. Once it is on the wall, it shouldn't pose a problem for the owner.

FGII
 
Whew, I am relieved to see a few others are in solidarity with me when it comes to using spring clips. I do think if they are forced in and dig into the foamboard they could cause some harm. But, I really don't recall any bad incidents involvig spring clips.

I wonder if it depends on which way you put them in? I have the rounded side up against the foamcore. I alwyas thought they were easier to take out that way.
 
As much as anything, I think it depends on what's between the spring clips and the art.

In the olden days, when a Nielsen #11 was the most commonly-used profile, you had room for glass, a single mat, a flawboard or 4-ply backing and some very snug spring clips - a Recipe for Ripple.

When there's room for at least an 1/8" fomeboard in there, the pressure of the spring clips is more evenly distributed and the chance of buckling is greatly diminished.

That's my story and I'm stickin' with it.
 
Strange I have had other metal frames brought to me with this effect done by other frame shops.

I have frames here in the shop and in customer locations that I frequent that we have done. None of these have this ripple effect.

We have always bentthe spring clips to adjustthe tension. i don't think most tothers know or have done this thus the ripple effect.
 
Back
Top