Mathematician Needed

Ron Eggers

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Or at least someone who hasn't already forgotten two years of college calculus (not to mention, forgetting what calculus is FOR.)

I have two short columns of numbers, established by trial-and-error testing of my CMC. I want to develop a formula that will describe their relationship and allow me to interpolate and extrapolate other numbers.

If it matters, here are the two columns of numbers:
A.....B
5.....5218
10....5153
15....5126
20....5114
25....5098

What I need is a formula that will predict, for example if A=22 or if A=50, then B=? or B=?

If you want, you pretend this is one of the puzzles we all love on Warped, but I have a real need to know.
 

Pat Murphey

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Ron,

I did an X,Y graph of the two columns in Excel and the curve doesn't seem to flow smoothly through 15 20 and 25. What is it?

Pat
shrug.gif
 

Ron Eggers

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Column A is the x or y dimension of a mat window. Column B is the x or y resolution I need to set in my CMC's software configuration to get the window to come out exactly that size.

The numbers I have work consistently, but I'd like a formula to insert in my POS that will give me the appropriate resolution settings right on my work order.

By now you're thinking two things: That a really smart guy like me should be able to figure this out, right? I have a confession. The reason I had two years of college calculus is because I flunked the first year. Who would have guessed that honors calculus at Rice University (which I flunked) would be any different from calculus at Washington High School (which I aced)? After they put me in jock calculus at Rice, I did fine.

You're also thinking that this is an awful lot of work to cut a mat. The alternative is to cut a "test mat", which is what I've done for a few years now, and adjust the dimensions. By adjusting the configuration settings, the ones that should never have to be changed, I can cut perfect mats on the first try.

It's still immensely faster than cutting them by hand.

You're right though, Pat, the numbers don't graph smoothly.

If I can't come up with a formula, I'll do a table look-up in my POS and use the numbers I already have.

Any of you who have taken a pricing chart - your own, or L-J's or anybodies - and converted it to a spreadsheet have probably gone through a similar exercise. You have column A, which is size in United Inches or square inches and column B, which might be a fitting charge and you need a formula to give you a fitting charge for any given size.
 

Pat Murphey

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Ron,

In another life I did financial projections for members of a life annuity based pilot retirement plan. The plan was based on actuarial tables, which are based on statistical results that do not fit a mathematical curve. (deaths are caused by factors like illness and accident that do not follow a formula). My solution was to use look-up tables in my database program to get the answers. Does your POS program allow you to create and use such a table? If so that may solve your problem.

Pat :D
 

UzZx32QU

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As its been 30+ years my guess is a matrix or detriment to get the formula. Please I probably spell both words wrong.

framer
 

Ron Eggers

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If I can't come up with a formula, I'll do a table look-up in my POS and use the numbers I already have.
That's probably what I'll do, Pat. Thanks.

I have a cousin whose daughter is an actuarial out in San Franscsco. She may be the smartest person I've ever met (other than Kit.)
 

Ron Eggers

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Framer, "detriment" sounds like a bad thing and "matrix" sounds like a pretty good movie followed by a couple of mediocre sequels.

Do you suppose those were on my honors calculus final?
 

Maryann

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From PennState Kate (who didn't fail college calc)

Ron's equation can be approximated by:
B = 13830.6*exp[-1] + 650/A
You would need more terms to be exact. But by graphing it quick and dirty, you can see that it's an exponential curve... (the exp[] in the equation is the number e=~2.6....). Anyway, it fits the first four values of A pretty well, but the fifth (25) is an oddball. I could probably get a better solution with Mathematica or MATLAB, but that's the pencil & paper solution.
Kate
;)
:cool: :rolleyes:
shrug.gif

I did a cut and paste - it makes absolutely no sense to me
 

Ron Eggers

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Thank you, Maryann.

I recommend you raise Kate's allowance immediately and exponentially.
 

Bob Shirk MCPF

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Ron,

Kate will soon be finishing her fourth year of college. Just one more year for mom and dad to pay for. She will probably give you a more exact answer later.
 

CharlesL

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Ron, Ron, Ron! Why didn't you just ask me?
The answer is 2.

Seriously, though, I never took calculus or became an actuarial, but we learned to look for patterns in numbers, at the Fone Co. (you'd be surprised how many troubles we fixed looking for numerical patterns)

I can't find a pattern here. Or one that makes sense or has a 'flow' to it.

Why don't you just buy a Wizard?
 

Ron Eggers

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Ron, Have you tried looking for a Math geeks bb?
Now THAT'S just plain silly.

I am NOT going to be the humiliated newby asking the dumb questions on another bulletin board. No way.

Besides, I would still need a translator - like Bob or Maryann Shirk.
 

smitten

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what kind of CMC do you have that requires so much work?
 

Ron Eggers

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It's a very sad story, Richm. Are you sure you wanna hear it? Maybe it's worth repeating if it makes someone else look before they leap.

I have a Mat Maestro, aka iMat made by a now bankrupt company called Regal Crown Industries, (aka iMat.)

My own machine is basically sound, but the company, literally consumed by unscrupulous greed under new leadership, released it - and particularly the software - before it was ready.

I am lucky to have a functioning machine that is fully paid-for. Many who paid for them, never received theirs at all, or they received one that didn't work. At least one framer I talked to sent hers back for service and never saw it again. It's entirely possible it was rebuilt and sold to someone else.

Here's the real kicker. You might think you'd have more protection in a lease program, but the leasing companies were holding many framers to the terms of the lease, EVEN THOUGH THEY HAD NO CMC, OR HAD NON-FUNCTIONING CMCS.

The lesson here for all of us is to check out the companies you're buying major equipment from. I had purchased equipment many years ago from Regal Crown, but was unaware that the old man had retired and his greedy son had taken over the company. They were actually in the midst of bankruptcy proceedings when my machine was delivered and the company president arrived to install it and train me.

Do your homework.

Charles may have been joking about me buying a Wizard, but I know of at least one Grumbler/iMat owner who did exactly that. For me, one CMC was a reach. Two is unlikely.

Bottom line is, I wish I HAD purchased a Wizard or an Eclipse or even the Fletcher. The latter is no longer being made, but Fletcher will support it for the next seven years or so. But my flaky Mat Maestro is such a huge improvement over cutting many types of mats by hand, that I am happy to keep it running.
 

Ron Eggers

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Too late, Pat.

One other thing. It was the mess with iMat that brought me to The Grumble. If I hadn't purchased a Mat Maestro, I wouldn't be here. In fact, I might not even be framing any more. I wouldn't have rejoined the PPFA, I wouldn't have gone to Atlanta in 2002, so I wouldn't have met Kit and Charles and FramerGuy and a bunch of other strange folks, and I wouldn't know a thing about FACTS.

Sometimes it takes a little trauma to break you out of your shell.
 

Maryann

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HMMM...I must be one of the strange folks in Atlanta. :eek:
I'm afraid I must decline the job as translator. When Kate talks about something nifty in her classes, my eyes just glaze over and I just sit and nod my head dumbly.
shrug.gif

Doya think she notices?
 

Ron Eggers

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Thanks for asking, Bob.

As a matter of fact, I did - about ten minutes ago.

Now, when I print out a work order, the X and Y resolution settings appear right above the mat window size.

It looks like Kate's formula works, but I'll need to test it (if my Mat Maestro is feeling up to it today) over the whole range of window sizes - probably 5"-50".

I don't mean to sound incredulous, but if Kate could come up with that with pencil and paper, think of what she'll be able to do with that new Dell computer. (The one you won't need for the Lieberman's CD.)

Charles sent me links to Mathematica and MATLAB, so I'll check those out, too. As I mentioned, this kind of problem comes up more often than you would think.
 

Ron Eggers

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I just ran CMC tests for windows 5-25" in 5" increments, and Kate's formula worked perfectly. I'm not ready to chop up a 40x60 board yet, but I will soon, since I have some oversize mats coming up.

Maryann and Bob and, especially, Kate, I owe ya one. This is going to save me an incredible amount of time and matboard each day.

If you ever need a good deal on some quality framing, let me know.
 
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