I just replaced my C & H with a Fletcher, but I'm nervous now that it's out of the box. We just put it up on our work table and it seems like the base is warped, and the parts don't appear to be as sturdy as the C & H parts. Guess it's kind of like driving a different car for the first time. We are measuring our table to make sure that's not the problem, but I'm 98% sure that it is indeed the base of the new cutter that is warped. Anyone out there who has any thoughts, I'd sure like to hear them.
Matcutters
- Thread starter DB
- Start date
Diane, I, too, tried to replace a C&H with a Fletcher this year. Fletcher has such a good reputation, and I personally know several people who use their cutters and love them, so I readily ordered one.
When I got mine I was very dissappointed. The base was warped, but Fletcher said that was part of the design. That would have been fine but mine would never cut correctly. When I tried to cut a mat, the blade would penetrate the center of the mat all the way through, but not each end. I had to hyper-extend the blade to get it to cut all the way through. There were also other problems.
I returned mine to United for a refund. The return person at United said they had gotten 10 of them back in a very short time. I thought maybe I had just gotten one from a bad run. I have other Fletcher products. They are great. I love my glass cutter.
Good Luck. Nancy Stinson
When I got mine I was very dissappointed. The base was warped, but Fletcher said that was part of the design. That would have been fine but mine would never cut correctly. When I tried to cut a mat, the blade would penetrate the center of the mat all the way through, but not each end. I had to hyper-extend the blade to get it to cut all the way through. There were also other problems.
I returned mine to United for a refund. The return person at United said they had gotten 10 of them back in a very short time. I thought maybe I had just gotten one from a bad run. I have other Fletcher products. They are great. I love my glass cutter.
Good Luck. Nancy Stinson
I have been thinking about replacing this for a while. I have always used C & H, but Fletcher fans raved about the cutting head and other features, so I went ahead and ordered one. I think I might have to return it. I haven't even cut the plastic ties off the bar yet because I am so discouraged by the warped base!
C
Cliff Wilson
Guest
I am sure there are others with more experience, but my 2100 has been great. The base seemed a little "twisted" when I got it, but it just need to be "seated" on the table.
What do you mean by "Warped?" Is The center high? The ends high? "twisted like mine was? (lower left corner and upper right corner were high) I think with the aluminum base, just getting it on a flat stable surface should "flatten it."
Depending on the what warped means there might be different solutions.
Good Luck,
Cliff
What do you mean by "Warped?" Is The center high? The ends high? "twisted like mine was? (lower left corner and upper right corner were high) I think with the aluminum base, just getting it on a flat stable surface should "flatten it."
Depending on the what warped means there might be different solutions.
Good Luck,
Cliff
Reynard
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Should a precision instrument be getting sent out from a factory in that state in the first place?
They cost too much to be sent out imperfect.
They cost too much to be sent out imperfect.
Framerguy
PFG, Picture Framing God
Reynard is right, folks. There is no reason to have to invest in a piece of equipment for any price and have it come out of the box in faulty condition. If you have a humidity problem in your shop or mishandle the equipment, that is one thing. But it should be in good condition when it arrives from the distributor.
Kasey, I can't buy that story that Fletcher builds "warp" into their designs. That is just a rediculous statement for them to make to you.
I would call back and raise some heck about it if I received a warped machine.
Framerguy
Kasey, I can't buy that story that Fletcher builds "warp" into their designs. That is just a rediculous statement for them to make to you.
I would call back and raise some heck about it if I received a warped machine.
Framerguy
Jerry Ervin
PFG, Picture Framing God
Me too. Call United and ask for a C & H Advantage Pro. The base is about an inch thick. There is no way this thing can warp.
Frank Larson
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Take a straight edge to the base to check if it is indeed warped. There is no way for a Fletcher to warp after it is manufactured....it is aluminum, totally uneffected by moisture or normal temperatures. If it is then it was a manufacturing mistake and should go back. If you are comparing the bar to the base and are seeing a little space at each end than this is normal. The bar (especially on the 60") has a slight curve to it that should go flat when you press down on the handle. It does help to have a flat worktable as the base will conform a little to it, usually by twisting.
Pardon the obvious, but what did Fletcher or the distributer say?
Our 2100 lasted well, eventually it developed a "cupped" base (trust me it cut more than it's fair share) but it still cuts okay.
Our 2100 lasted well, eventually it developed a "cupped" base (trust me it cut more than it's fair share) but it still cuts okay.
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DB,
As Frank Larson suggested, please take a straight edge and check the levelness of the base from length end to length end. If you measure it along the width, you may note some uneven surface, which really has little bearing on the quality of the cut.
The extruded aluminum base should be level from end to end, lengthwise. If you note any major uneven surface along the machine's length, then by all means, contact the customer service department at The Fletcher-Terry Company -- Phone 1-800-THE-FTCO
Be sure to set it up per the instruction manual, and cut a few mats.
<center>"Old Habits die hard!"</center>
Having just returned from the Atlanta Decor Expo show, I noted many framers in the mat cutting workshops and in the booth cutting mats. Many were trained on other brands of matcutters. Rather than hold the handle (putting pressure on the clamp), they would reach across and rest their hand on the mat guide. Confidence in the guide on many of the early mat cutters was suspicious at best.
This technique often results in the framer not clamping the mat blank sufficiently.
DB.......Keep us posted.
Regards,
John
Consultant to The Fletcher-Terry Co.
[ 09-13-2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: John Ranes II, CPF, GCF ]
As Frank Larson suggested, please take a straight edge and check the levelness of the base from length end to length end. If you measure it along the width, you may note some uneven surface, which really has little bearing on the quality of the cut.
The extruded aluminum base should be level from end to end, lengthwise. If you note any major uneven surface along the machine's length, then by all means, contact the customer service department at The Fletcher-Terry Company -- Phone 1-800-THE-FTCO
This problem sounds like the operator is <u>not</u> keeping their hand pressing lightly on the handle thus flattening the clamp that holds the mat. The clamp has a naural convex bow built into it's design. When pressure is <u>not applied</u> sufficiently, then the cutting head will not cut evenly at the two ends creating the results that Kasey describes. This was perhaps the problem.
<center>"Old Habits die hard!"</center>
Having just returned from the Atlanta Decor Expo show, I noted many framers in the mat cutting workshops and in the booth cutting mats. Many were trained on other brands of matcutters. Rather than hold the handle (putting pressure on the clamp), they would reach across and rest their hand on the mat guide. Confidence in the guide on many of the early mat cutters was suspicious at best.
This technique often results in the framer not clamping the mat blank sufficiently.
DB.......Keep us posted.
Regards,
John
Consultant to The Fletcher-Terry Co.
[ 09-13-2003, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: John Ranes II, CPF, GCF ]
smitten
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
When we got ours just putting it on the table knocked the "feet" off the bottom and caused it to sit twisted. We ended up just removing the feet altogether and it has worked fine ever since.
Also the preasure on the clamp handle is critical.
Also the preasure on the clamp handle is critical.
Be careful about bad mouthing Fletcher products, their board of directors might get discouraged and discontinue it if sales drop off slightly.
John
John
Reynard
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Alternatively, they may go and sort the problem regarding their shoddy goods?
Fletcher make plenty of good things but like complaining ina restaraunt if your food is crap they should be made aware of things that are not right.
Fletcher make plenty of good things but like complaining ina restaraunt if your food is crap they should be made aware of things that are not right.
Fletcher-Terry company manufacturers quality products and stands behind their products 100%
We at United have only had a few returns of Fletcher mat cutters in the last year. Most of these were for the 60 inch model and I believe they were "rentals" but I will save that discussion for another thread.
We have had no reports of warped bases or other defects inherant in the machines. I can only guess that when you are number one you are the most likely to come under attack from competitors or people who do not know how to use the machine properly.
United and Fletcher-Terry have always and will always stand behind the equipment we sell.
True proffessional framers know which machine is the best.
We at United have only had a few returns of Fletcher mat cutters in the last year. Most of these were for the 60 inch model and I believe they were "rentals" but I will save that discussion for another thread.
We have had no reports of warped bases or other defects inherant in the machines. I can only guess that when you are number one you are the most likely to come under attack from competitors or people who do not know how to use the machine properly.
United and Fletcher-Terry have always and will always stand behind the equipment we sell.
True proffessional framers know which machine is the best.
Reynard
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
So there you have it.
We are all idiots for either not using Fletcher gear in the first place or we are so dim that we don`t know what a warped base looks like.
We are all idiots for either not using Fletcher gear in the first place or we are so dim that we don`t know what a warped base looks like.
Reynard
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Thanks for editing that for me 
I guess when you pay for an advert you get special treatment?
[ 09-15-2003, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Reynard ]
I guess when you pay for an advert you get special treatment?
[ 09-15-2003, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Reynard ]
I bought one of the Fletcher mat cutters when they first came out. I can't even begin to remember what year it was. It never gave me one bit of trouble other than replacement of a small part here and there. Now it is an old machine and I've closed my store, but my new boss bought it and we still use it daily for straight cutting, cutting mats that don't fit on the Wizard and 8 ply mats. That's a pretty good recommendation. I'm sure they will take care of your problem, DB. When you get it all set up properly you'll love it. Hang in there.
PurplePerson1
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
We have an old Fletcher, besides our Wizard. We call it our dinosaur, laying there in its extinction. However, we love it. It doesn't really lay there unused. We use it for a lot of things. We have never had a lick of trouble with it.
A couple weeks ago, I figured out how to cut a v-groove (without cutting all the way through) on it. Our Wizard was being bratty, but the Fletcher took on the job with gusto. It did a great job and taught me how to transfer the technique to the Wizard without the Wizard's bratty v-groove feature.
We love our Fletcher.
A couple weeks ago, I figured out how to cut a v-groove (without cutting all the way through) on it. Our Wizard was being bratty, but the Fletcher took on the job with gusto. It did a great job and taught me how to transfer the technique to the Wizard without the Wizard's bratty v-groove feature.
We love our Fletcher.
Reynard,
What do you mean by special treatment for advertisers? As for being an idiot, it was you not me who used that description, not me.
Peter Ackerman
[ 09-16-2003, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Peter Ackerman ]
What do you mean by special treatment for advertisers? As for being an idiot, it was you not me who used that description, not me.
Peter Ackerman
[ 09-16-2003, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Peter Ackerman ]
I don't understand how a thread like this becomes nasty.
Grumble advertisers aren't getting any special treatment that I'm aware of. Some of them choose to participate in our discussions, and most of us are grateful that they do.
For what it's worth, my Fletcher mat cutter has outlasted the C&H and Logan cutters I had previously, and shows no signs of quitting before I do. It's a hybrid 2000 that had some initial problems. Fletcher sent me a new cutting head and rail, so I think I have a 2050 now - maybe even a 2075.
They sent the new parts quickly and at no charge after we'd had the cutter for more than a few months.
Apparently the Fletcher underpinner was not successful, and there is some bitterness over the discontinuation of the CMC, but I think most people have found the company responsive and the products to be among the best in our industry.
If you're not getting the right answers to your questions from Fletcher's customer service, you need to talk to someone else there.
Grumble advertisers aren't getting any special treatment that I'm aware of. Some of them choose to participate in our discussions, and most of us are grateful that they do.
For what it's worth, my Fletcher mat cutter has outlasted the C&H and Logan cutters I had previously, and shows no signs of quitting before I do. It's a hybrid 2000 that had some initial problems. Fletcher sent me a new cutting head and rail, so I think I have a 2050 now - maybe even a 2075.
They sent the new parts quickly and at no charge after we'd had the cutter for more than a few months.
Apparently the Fletcher underpinner was not successful, and there is some bitterness over the discontinuation of the CMC, but I think most people have found the company responsive and the products to be among the best in our industry.
If you're not getting the right answers to your questions from Fletcher's customer service, you need to talk to someone else there.
Understatement is in my job description, John.
I'm sure you'll understand if you don't get a lot of sympathy from a Mat Maestro owner, though.
I remember responding to some posts from people trying to chose between the Eclipse and the Fletcher CMCs.
Since I am clearly an expert at choosing CMCs, I offered that the Fletcher had the advantage since the company had been around forever.
I don't think any of that reflects on the 2100 or the wall cutters, though.
I'm sure you'll understand if you don't get a lot of sympathy from a Mat Maestro owner, though.
I remember responding to some posts from people trying to chose between the Eclipse and the Fletcher CMCs.
Since I am clearly an expert at choosing CMCs, I offered that the Fletcher had the advantage since the company had been around forever.
I don't think any of that reflects on the 2100 or the wall cutters, though.
The company had been around forever was the basis for my decision to go with Fletcher. I think what is really frustrating for me is that it is one hel of a good mat cutter. Fletcher could have controlled the market with those machines if they hadn't been so rigid about their method of marketing them.
John
John
Reynard
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
Well the inference that the machine is fine its the people using it that are wonky for starters.
Also the fact that only "true professional" framers??? know which machine is best?
And the fact that my post was basically butchered because someone didn,t like the tone of my reply?
Well I didn,t like your reply Mr Ackerman thats all.And I don,t use your mountcutter and I don,t like my "professionalism" called into question because I don,t use a particular item from your inventory.
And I don,t see where this thread is nasty either.
Also the fact that only "true professional" framers??? know which machine is best?
And the fact that my post was basically butchered because someone didn,t like the tone of my reply?
Well I didn,t like your reply Mr Ackerman thats all.And I don,t use your mountcutter and I don,t like my "professionalism" called into question because I don,t use a particular item from your inventory.
And I don,t see where this thread is nasty either.
Mitch
Reynard, sorry to be a nag, but I see no indication that anyone edited your post at all.
One of the relatively new features on The Grumble is the return of the "edited by . . ." line on edited posts. This was primarily to prevent moderators from playing little tricks on one-another.
We are an unruly and immature lot, but I don't think any of us butchered your post.
One of the relatively new features on The Grumble is the return of the "edited by . . ." line on edited posts. This was primarily to prevent moderators from playing little tricks on one-another.
We are an unruly and immature lot, but I don't think any of us butchered your post.
katman
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I'm not very professional. Sometimes I wear Big Dogs T-shirts, and I've done a little dancing in the shop when I have some really nice rock'n'roll playing.
Yes, Fletcher should have done a better job marketing the 6100 instead of calling it quits. But my 6100, 3100, 2100 and various other Fletcher products are excellent tools and the company has provided outstanding support.
Fletcher also was good enough to recommend against buying one of their underpinners. Looks like they gave up on this machine, just like they gave up on the 6100. Aggressive competitors they are not, but I have been pleased with their support and products.
Yes, Fletcher should have done a better job marketing the 6100 instead of calling it quits. But my 6100, 3100, 2100 and various other Fletcher products are excellent tools and the company has provided outstanding support.
Fletcher also was good enough to recommend against buying one of their underpinners. Looks like they gave up on this machine, just like they gave up on the 6100. Aggressive competitors they are not, but I have been pleased with their support and products.
Reynard
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
OK Ron fair enough but I addressed Mr Ackerman directly and that entir part of my post was omitted.It wasn,t all that great anyway so don,t lose any sleep over it...
Flintstone
CGF II, Certified Grumble Framer Level 2
Quite the entertaining thread!
I have a Fletcher 2100 and 3100. In fact I bought them both from Peter. Two really great machines! At first I thought my 2100 was bent. But I e-mailed Fletcher. They responded and explained that that's the way the machine is built. I don't know why, but it works; and it works well.
I see that John Ranes replied. I took his matcutting class at the East Coast Frame Show. Excellent! I highly suggest it. And if any Fletcher owners have any questions about the machine, that's a great way to get them answered. We used Fletcher 2100s in the class.
By the way Fletcher is not the only matcutter UMS sells.
I have a Fletcher 2100 and 3100. In fact I bought them both from Peter. Two really great machines! At first I thought my 2100 was bent. But I e-mailed Fletcher. They responded and explained that that's the way the machine is built. I don't know why, but it works; and it works well.
I see that John Ranes replied. I took his matcutting class at the East Coast Frame Show. Excellent! I highly suggest it. And if any Fletcher owners have any questions about the machine, that's a great way to get them answered. We used Fletcher 2100s in the class.
By the way Fletcher is not the only matcutter UMS sells.
John Richards
MGF, Master Grumble Framer
I'm going to have to back Peter on this one. We sell Logan, C&H and Fletcher. Fletcher being the top seller. We have not had a Fletcher 2100 returned in a long time. They will back their product 100% (even if it is discontinued). I think John sort of hit the nail on the head. When people switch brands of equipment their expectations typically are not met because they have used one piece of equipment for years and some of the subtle differences take a bit of a learning curve to operate the equipment properly. I believe that with a little practice everything will work out.
Just wanted to update everyone. I checked my table and it appeared to be level. We turned the cutter 90 degrees so it was running perpendiclar to where my matcutter usually sits and it was still warped. It measured 1/8" higher off the tableat the top than at the bottom. That sucker was really rockin' and rollin'! We put it back in the box and went back to using the old cutter. Things got pretty busy at the shop and I did not have time to deal with it right away. Anyway, I called my Donmar rep, David Campion. He was here within 6 hours of my call. At this point the cutter had been sitting flat on the floor for 10 days. He put it up on the table...still wobbly. He turned it like I did...no wobble. Boy was my face red! I SWEAR we did this before I even contacted the Gumble. My work table is huge and very sturdy, but it is probably 20 years old so I checked that first. REALLY! Anyway, looks like my table is definitely cupping and the C & H wood base just molded to it over the years. We threw a few shims under the Fletcher and Dave showed me how to use it. So far no problems! I want to give it a good week to get accustomed to it. I have to say I LOVE the blade cartridge! More updates as I use the heck out of it this week.
Bogframe
SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
First of all, I've been dealing with United for many a year now, and they've never been less than professional with me, they back up everything they sell, and I'd never hesitate to recomend them to anyone. That having been said, We have a Fletcher, a Carrithers Signature and my personal Keeton mat cutter in constant use. Some of us are sliding block cutter people, and some of us are roller block people, and it can be hard to go from machine to machine. (I personally can't use our fletcher without stops) My two cents...play with the machine for a few weeks and see if you can get used to it. If you feel you can't, return it and get something that more suits your style of cutting.