Matboard samples - small or large?

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Sherry Lee

SGF, Supreme Grumble Framer
Joined
Jun 25, 2002
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Phoenix, Az.
Just wondered what you prefer to work with when dealing with matboard corner samples? Do you prefer handling the standard 2 3/4" or the larger 4" or 5" corner samples?

Personally, I'd rather have smaller ones, but a duplicate set so that customers can see the same matboard color when choosing to use the same mat twice (i.e. double mat of same color or triple mat with same color used x2). And the large ones are harder to store....at least I find that.

Whatta about you????
 
I prefer HANDLING the smaller ones, the large ones are too heavy for me at this time (medical issue). BUT, the larger ones make selling wider mats easier. So, we have changed over to 4" samples completely. I'd rather have the bigger ticket that goes along with the wider mats.
 
I was just pondering this, Sherry, the other day.
(Yes, things are a tad slow, here) :rolleyes:

When the 4inchers first came in (I paid cashmoney for them, too) I was a bit cranky about them- they seemed unwieldy, awkward.
But now that I have adjusted to them, the 2 3/4" samples seem skimpy and just won't do.
I won't go back.
Now, if only the Raphael's and Framing Fabrics would oblige us.
Seems like it would be more of a challenge to store duplicate sets than one set of the wide guys.
The wide mat corner samples are the next best thing to framed prints with graciously proportioned wide mats when it comes to selling them to our fashion forward customers.

edie, thewiderisbetter goddess.

...from Cleveland, where it is nowhere near 80 degrees!
 
Whatever samples you show to customers, that's what they will want to buy.

Would you rather sell 2-3/4" mats or 5" mats?

If you think it doesn't matter much, just calculate the difference in retail price of a frame when mat width increases by just 1". Then extend that difference to your annual sales -- and realize that almost ALL of that difference is profit.

A few years ago, when the campaign for wider mat samples was going on, I cut my own 4" samples. The sales results were immediate and dramatic. If I could get 6" samples, that's what I'd be showing customers.
 
I poo-pooed the idea of wider samples resulting in wider mats, but I'm a believer now.

I have a 2-tiered sample rack. All my premium boards are 4" samples on the top tier - the rags, Alphamats, Tru-Vue and Artique. The decorative boards are down below in the 2 3/4" samples and are there for reference only. I've pulled most of the stock to use as slip sheets for my CMC.

Besides wider mats, my other new love is thicker mats: 6-ply and 8-ply and especially the Bainbridge Ultrathick top mats. I can't cut these with my CMC, but I don't care. I love 'em! (Especially with a painted bevel.)
 
Although not directly related to this thread, has anyone else notice something odd about the "new" Crescent "Conservation" mat boards?

Ok, I mean, when I got them, I compared them to existing Crescent Rag Mats, and 80% are repetetive coors ... only the new ones (with the trendy slick names) are no longer rag, but alpha cellulose .... not cool, Crescent ....

Of course, the "new ones" are 4"samples ....but, sheesh, ... replacing a perfectly good rag with a funky cellulose, ....????

Thanks, I'll stick with Bainbridge and Rising.

[ 01-31-2003, 11:41 PM: Message edited by: FramingFool ]
 
Bainbridge are alpha cellulose. I do think it's interesting that after all these years of Crescent bragging that their mats are pure cotton they've come out with an alpha cellulose line. Why?
 
I assume you're talking about the "Select" line. It's a price thing. Crescent wanted a board to compete with Larson's Artique line.

Rather than rehash the alphacellulose vs. rag thing, just read the post from 3-4 weeks ago. I'll even retrieve a link and post it here.

Here's the link.

[ 02-01-2003, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Ron_Eggers ]
 
Some museums, conservators, and framers prefer to use 100% rag, buffered boards instead of other alphacellulose boards. There certainly was a time when 100% rag board was superior to other types of pulp. But is it true today? Some say manufacturing technology has advanced to the point that 100% cotton no longer holds a technical advantage over other alphacellulose.

By definition, alphacellulose is acid free, lignin free, purified pulp and it doesn't matter whether the pulp comes from linen rags, trees or cotton plants, or some combination of purified pulps.

The U.S. Library of Congress makes no disinction in favor of 100% cotton over alphacellulose of other composition. I've looked for definitive data (lab tests, for example) to prove one composition of alphacellulose is better than the rest, and have not found it. The data I've seen indicate they are equal in terms of preservation quality -- regardless of personal preferences.

In favor of 100% cotton: It requires less processing, so the fibers are slightly longer, making the board more flexible; it feels (and is) softer. I think (but not sure) unbuffered cotton board has the simplest chemical composition of all preservation boards, which might be a framing advantage sometimes.

In favor of other alphacellulose: More processing means the fibers are shorter, more consistent, and the board is more dense (harder, stiffer). These characteristics make the boards less reactive to changes in temperature and humidity.

I like the Crescent Select series. It's excellent quality matboard at competitive prices. I also use Bainbridge ArtCare boards, Crescent 100% rag boards, and others.

While some folks claim one particular label is superior to all the rest, I haven't found reasons for that other than personal preference.
 
I finally got my copy of the latest Journal of the American Institute for Conservation!

According to the published study that Preservator cites (click on Ron's link and scroll to the last entry)BOTH rag and purified wood pulp (alphacellulose) are safe to use next to silver gelatin photographs. This is a very strict test, so you can feel confident using both for all your framing needs.

Rebecca
 
I switched to the 4" samples in 2001 and have been very satisfied with the change. I think it was me, but I now have no problem selling wider mats. Most customers are very satisfied with the results.

I was a bit disgusted to receive 2 1/2" Ultra Thick samples from Bainbridge several months ago. I keep them along with Framing Fabric's small samples on the floor near the back wall, where I can retrieve them, if needed.

Haven't done that much retrieving tho ;)
 
Gosh, this forum is fabulous! Your contributions gave me exactly the info I needed.

When new ideas (such as wider mat samples) come to be, the initial reaction is not always sustained - sometimes we change our minds! That's why I aske the question after the product has been tested for a period of time.

In this case, the use of wider mat samples is a winner (handling/storing a bit of an issue), but revenue producing! I had to laugh at the comment re: older lady who thinks a 3/4" mat on a big piece is still too much.........golly gee, I have a few of those sweet customers - men and ladies alike! Ofcourse, the one retired PhD. gentleman just can't understand why I can't get his 24x36 oil into a fillet!

So, when we move into our new studio - construction should take 6 months, they say (ugh), I will have WIDE mat samples....thanks to you! :D

Let's see now, TruVue provides them....just gotta get Bainbridge and Crescent to cough them up! ARE YOU LISTENING B. & C. ?????????? :rolleyes:
 
I prefer the larger samples. It is simply based on the fact that if people see a sample they tend to think the size of the sample or smaller.

It is the same idea of selling from a full inventory or out of a catalogue. People tent to be very visual and do not have the ability to extrapulate to the larger sizes.

I also have a set of black and white samples cut in 1/2" incriments from 1" to 6" to place on art to show mor dramaticly the larger sizes. These samples are 12" x 12".
 
Sherry, Crescent will send you a full set of 4" samples for the rag mats and the Moorman suedes for no charge, if you are persistant. The linens are not yet available. (Guess how many Crescent linens I've used since I switched over - one, and that was to match an older order.)

Bainbridge will charge you $90 for a set, but it's a HUGE set with every c/p board they make, including suedes, linens, Alphamats and Alpharags and all the c/p color-core boards.
 
Yay this is my first reply.
I have been framing for 4 years. My new boss found this site this past year..I never thought to look fo rthis wonderful place


We recently got the 4" samples. I think they are great. I find when some customers look at them they see them too big. They move them in so only an inch or less is showing, But they did the same thing with the 3" I find it easier with the latger sample to convince them to get at least a 2 1/2 mat. Other customers would be happy with 4" cause they see the mat sample and like it.
 
Having to be persistant in asking for samples translates as begging, to me.
Why should any framer have to beg for mat samples? Our samples are so dirty and old that I won't even show them now. Thank doG Marcia had an extra set, I'm happy to pay for shipping. The weird thing is that we get the updates, and now are getting the 4 inch updates. It will be great to be able to sell Crescent again.
 
Well, PurpleHayes, thank you for replying to my question! Hope to see your input more. I'm fairly new to TG myself and am beginning to think I've caught a bad virus......addicting stuff and lots of nice people!
 
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