Matboard colors vs Pantone Colors

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Rob Markoff

Rob Markoff

PFG, Picture Framing God
Joined
Mar 8, 1999
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San Diego, CA USA
Is there a cross reference sheet anywhere that approximates the Pantone (PMS) colors (PLEASE no jokes take it to warped :))

It is so much easier to give a printer/graphic designer a PMS color instead of saying can you match Crescent XXXX?
 
Rob Markoff said:
Is there a cross reference sheet anywhere that approximates the Pantone (PMS) colors (PLEASE no jokes take it to warped :))

It is so much easier to give a printer/graphic designer a PMS color instead of saying can you match Crescent XXXX?
Click to expand...

Rob,
I also run into this problem when McAffee wanted me to match their logo color. If I rememebr correctly, I posted something here and someone here helped me, but that is for only one color.
I think I also called my Bainbridge & Crescent rep for help. Only bainbridge replied.

Regards,
Troy
 
I didn't know that those paint mixing machines referred to the Pantone system. I agree that a matboard/Pantone reference chart would be a fantastic tool for us. I have also had graphic designers and corporate clients ask for matboards by relating to Pantone numbers.
:cool: Rick

It still amazes me how those paint-mixing systems work. I can understand the calibrated scanning and analysis. It just seems like that crude-looking slider system for dispensing the colorants wouldn't be accurate enough. I guess it is, though. Seems like some giant inkjet-type dispenser would be more expected.
 
No..and here's the reason.

(I used to have a Pantone scanner that I bought JUST to match matboard colors on an online website.)

Why?: Pantone is pantone formulated. When you scan something, it relays the closest pantone color. Even if you ask for RGB, its the RGB of the closest Pantone. It isn't a full spectrum analysis, its Pantone's closest equivalent. Matboard colors seem to hit between everything Pantone. So it wound up being a $500 "close", which was really disappointing.

To my knowledge, no one has a true portable RGB scanning system. You could try it in your computer with a standard scanner...but unless Crescent, etc. are giving out their true RGB colors you'd have to create the master list yourself... you'd have just as much luck telling your guy "sky blue". Give him a specifier. That'll take care of it.

Most of the time, Pantone close just isn't close at all. You have a better chance eyeing it. That's when I realized there was a problem with how it was identifying the matboards, called Pantone to verify my suspicions and scrapped the idea.
 
I doubt that any mat board company could issue a Pantone equivalency chart without paying Pantone a licensing fee. If this happened the cost of mat board would increase significantly.

If true matching is a necessity then a better option might be to use Pantone inks and make your own board with an airbrush.
 
Be aware that a Pantone Specifier over a year old could be grossly off color depending how they are stored, etc.
 
Here's a thought - (hopefully not too off topic...) If you need an "exactly color" for a matboard - you could try playing around with an Epson Printer, and printing the color you need onto some Bainbridge white "Ultraprint" matboard. (Use photoshop and spec the color in CMYK).

You may need to do some color calibration and get your profiles set correctly first.

I know framers who are doing this service for top-end decorators, to help get "exact color shades" when they are not available in standard ranges.

Cheers,

Jared
 
Rob Markoff said:
Is there a cross reference sheet anywhere that approximates the Pantone (PMS) colors (PLEASE no jokes take it to warped :))

It is so much easier to give a printer/graphic designer a PMS color instead of saying can you match Crescent XXXX?
Click to expand...

Rob
Why would you be talking to a printer/designer about anything else than a PMS color? It's like asking your car painter to match a house paint?

Of course you know all these are different bases for the inks, paints, or dyes. Within the printing industry there are so many different ink makers and ink color systems it will make your head spin. PMS is just one of the many color matching systems out there.

Most ink companies will make an ink for you, like paint companies, if you give them a chip of the matboard or come as close to the color as possible. That would be a single spot color only.

You can achieve just about any color using the 4 process color inks, cyan, magenta, yellow and black.
Depending on what kind of paper you plan to put it on it should come out pretty close. Doing a color match for a printer is very expensive.

But to answer your question there is no cross reference that I know of to accomplish what you have in mind. You can make one yourself by spending the time to compare them, I wouldn't want to spend the time myself.

Print on!
Francisco
 
PicturedFramer said:
Rob
Why would you be talking to a printer/designer about anything else than a PMS color?
Click to expand...

Exactly my point- as a framer I have a ready reference of a set of mats and a mat specifier. I "speak" matboard.

If I need to have some digital output done and I do not have a PMS reference set (nor am I likely to buy one unless my needs can justify) - it is so much easier to say match PMS 200 than a mat color, or take the mat there and try to match it.

For example, I am doing a Mission Statement for a client. He wants a "turn-key" project - meaning he gives me the words and I deliver a finished, framed product for his wall - including the graphic design and printing.

The interior designer wants an "ivory" colored background and "brown type". If she comes to my store, the best I can show her are mat samples or paint swatches. If I had a cross reference, I could just call the printer and have them match the colors.

It looks like I will have to take/send them mat or paint swatches and ask them to cross reference them. I was hoping for a simple solution.
 
A Google search brings up this Q & A on Crescent's facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/CrescentCardboard

I not sure I buy Crescents answer that their dyes can't match pantone colors, note that Pantone colors exists for the textile industry. If they can do it, mat board manufactures can do it.

Our mat suppliers should tell us which Pantone is closest to the color of the mat.

This would also be a boost to frame visualization systems. One limitation of my Integrated Framer setup is the inability of the system to accurately capture subtle differences in pastel colored mats. A cross reference and software update could eliminate that weakness.

Doug
 
We can easily get Crescent to provide Pantone Matching System colors... Just petition them to agree that we will pay $ 15.00 per sheet for mat board so they can pay the licensing fee.

Any takers???
 
Part of the problem is that color must be specified with a white point reference.

A Pantone color under one light might match one matboard "better."
Under a different light it might match a different matboard "better."


The substrates and "ink" chemicals will react differently to different white points.

It's not as easy as you think.
 
I once "wasted" an amazing amount of time "calibrating" every mat sample in my display rack. At the time, that included everything from Crescent and Bainbridge and quite a bit of Miller/TruVue.

When I was done, I had sample racks that made sense (at least to me) and I also had working substitutes across manufacturers if a particular board was unavailable or out-of-stock.

That reference list is now 7 years old, at least, and most of the boards probably don't exist any more.

Was it Kay Evans who taught/teaches a color wheel system for mat colors?

That doesn't address the Pantone question but it would probably only have required another hundred hours or so to include the Pantone colors in the cross reference.
 
DVieau2 said:
A Google search brings up this Q & A on Crescent's facebook page:

http://www.facebook.com/CrescentCardboard

I not sure I buy Crescents answer that their dyes can't match pantone colors, note that Pantone colors exists for the textile industry. If they can do it, mat board manufactures can do it.

Our mat suppliers should tell us which Pantone is closest to the color of the mat.

This would also be a boost to frame visualization systems. One limitation of my Integrated Framer setup is the inability of the system to accurately capture subtle differences in pastel colored mats. A cross reference and software update could eliminate that weakness.

Doug
Click to expand...

Hey Doug...hope you don't mind if I use this to explain it a little better.

Their response was "Sorry, We don't have Pantone numbers assigned to our colors. Our surface paper colors are created with color dyes that don't match the Pantone color system."

It's not that they couldn't. They don't. They matboard companies create their own palette and create their own colors. Most matboard colors are so far between Pantone colors, you wouldn't believe. If anyone else has spent hundreds of hours scanning matboard colors to match them to Pantone's palette to realize that the Pantone scanner has selected the SAME Pantone color for a half dozen mats, then you'll realize the scope of the problem. And their close? No cigar. Honestly, its THAT bad. They couldn't tell you what's close because some just aren't close at all. And others could go up or down the scale.

The limitation of the Integrated Framer then, is that subtle differences in matboards can't be displayed because of limitations in their color palette. This is the same reason why the Pantone system selected a single color for a half-dozen mats. :)

Pantone doesn't assign a color number for everything...only for those colors they wish to include that they formulate (or that they 'own').

If our matboard companies would only print Pantone colors, we would be missing so many beautiful shades...and if they paid Pantone to include them, we absorb the cost AND their colors could be easily stolen and recreated by anyone. It just makes more sense that they remain in charge of their own color offerings.
 
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