Question mat vs. spacer

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Ruby32

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Ruby32 said:
Hello. This is my first time posting. Hopefully, I am doing this right! Sent someone to a chain store offering 50/25% off, to get estimate for a piece...just to compare what I charge. Image size 8.25 by 10.75. He told them he wanted to use one mat. They told him he had to use 2 mats or use a spacer with the one mat, also adding opting for 2 mats would be cheaper than 1 with spacer. Did I miss something? Did something change? I thought the primary purpose of a window mat was to serve as a spacer..... Don't get me wrong, I understand trying to sell more but to say it is now a standard... I just want to make sure I didn't miss something! Any updated information on this would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Jim_P, I think I may have figured out how to post....we'll see in a few seconds! LOL
 
...They told him he had to use 2 mats or use a spacer with the one mat...
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The standard for preservation framing has always been that the glazing should not contact the art. For a small, dry mounted photograph or other item that would remain perfectly flat and never bow or warp toward the glazing, a single 4-ply mat might serve the purpose. But for larger papers, especially those not permanently mounted, the equivalent of two 4-ply layers or a 1/8" spacer would be considered the minimum spacing. And in many cases, more spacing distance than that would be needed to prevent contact of the art and glazing. But that's for preservation framing, of course. If preservation doesn't matter, then neither does spacing of the art from the glazing.
 
I had something framed at M's come in recently that had a mat and a spacer. Made me chuckle. There was no reason for this piece to have both. Thing is, these decisions come from the top and all framers are required to at least try to get them both in. At least that is how it was years ago when I was a framer at M's.
 
Frame Maker SA said:
I had something framed at M's come in recently that had a mat and a spacer. Made me chuckle. There was no reason for this piece to have both. Thing is, these decisions come from the top and all framers are required to at least try to get them both in. At least that is how it was years ago when I was a framer at M's.
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I have seen that too, just a few weeks ago on 4 pictures I redid. they did have one mat on all of them, and it was photos just photo cornered in, so i guess they were going for the extra depth. Of course that made the mats bow a little since there is more pressure on the outside... made me smile as well. but annoyed me as well since i had to reuse the glass. I just replaced it instead of dealing with the spacer.
 
We called it upselling in the restaurant world. Any other sales world actually. It sounds like they are upselling by default...

By having the systems default to double mats (4" or better at that) and museum glass you make it a bother for the worker to change those options. And I am sure that if you were on the habit of lowering options that the head office would take notice and it would be included in your job reviews.
 
Well, without seeing the mats and the spacer and the art and knowing what the customer wanted or requested, this whole discussion is just based on nothing.

I like the use of mats and floating the mats so the glass won't touch the art.
 
Jim Miller said:
The standard for preservation framing has always been that the glazing should not contact the art.
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Correct. The question is one of how much spacing is sufficient, and I'd say that depends on the work. During my CPF recertification they mentioned that a double 4-ply mat was minimum, I don't agree. I believe there are many cases where a single 4-ply mat is sufficient.

In other words, mat + spacer or double mat is not *wrong* but it may be overkill for the application. If you're using etched reflection control glass it might also fuzz out the image a bit more...
 
jim_p said:
During my CPF recertification they mentioned that a double 4-ply mat was minimum, I don't agree.
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Maybe Michael's wrote that question for the exam....

Back in the day, when I took it... we all laughed our miters off... it was
soooo obvious which questions were written by Seal, which by Victor Moulding
and which by Crescent. The three great lights of knowledge in the 1980s.....

At the two JoAnne's and the three M's... the policy is triple mat to fit a stock frame....
 
Ylva said:
Well, without seeing the mats and the spacer and the art and knowing what the customer wanted or requested, this whole discussion is just based on nothing.

I like the use of mats and floating the mats so the glass won't touch the art.
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Well in my case I saw the mat, the spacer, the art and the customer was in front of me and told me about his experience and what he asked for at the time. I also once worked there and have a little knowledge about their business practice. I dont see how this discuscion is based on nothing. Not trying to stir anything up, just saying.
 
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