Mat Scrap

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Joanie

Joanie

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Joined
Nov 28, 2007
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42
Loc
Beaver Falls, PA (near Pittsburgh)
I am looking for suggestions on how to handle a situations concerning cutting matboard for customers.

An artist brings in their own matboard to have cut and wants the cut out portion. What is your policy?

In my situation, I have a Custom Framing Business and have been sharing space with an artist / art teacher for the last year. I have been cutting her mats and charge her for the labor + wholesale cost of mats & frames. This is the first time she has ever asked me for the cut out and I am not sure if I want to start doing this. By the way, she left me a note with the matboard stating what she wanted done, so I still have time to make a decision on how to proceed. Just as an aside, I do take art classes from her and she does not give me any type of discount.

Your input in this situation would be appreciated.
 
We get this all the time.

If the artist owns the board, they get all the pieces back. However, they are either bringing the board in, or buying the board from us at retail price.

I would suggest if she wants all the pieces back, then she can no longer get wholesale cost.
 
1. If the cut outs are smaller than 11x14 give them to her.
2. Tell her that you donate your scraps to a Non-Profit school/church
3. Tell her you use the centers to help off set the price break you are giving her.
4. Don't make a big deal about it give them to her then add it to your labor cost.

If she is not giving you any discount on classes treat her like she would be any other artist customer.
 
Give her the scraps, they are her scraps if she purchased the board elsewhere as you indicate. You state that you are charging her for the labor to do the cutting so you have no claim on her property and the mat board is her property if she brings it to you.
 
We charge the same for mat cutting....... shop supplied or customer supplied board.

Except for one friendly frame shop down the street. In their case, we charge $4 a window.
 
I do the same as Jerry. Charge the same price whether they supply the board or I do. If it's their board they get all the scraps.

The justification for charging the same price is that if you screw up their board you have to replace it.
 
We return the “fall outs” if they ask us without any charge. To us, it is not worth the hassle or the potential bad will to put up a stink.

If the customer bring in their own mat board, we charge them a flat $4.50 for the first opening and $6.50 for the second and each subsequent opening. And, they keep the scraps since the boards are usually carp anyway.
 
Joanie said:
I
In my situation, I have a Custom Framing Business and have been sharing space with an artist / art teacher for the last year. I have been cutting her mats and charge her for the labor + wholesale cost of mats & frames. This is the first time she has ever asked me for the cut out and I am not sure if I want to start doing this. By the way, she left me a note with the matboard stating what she wanted done, so I still have time to make a decision on how to proceed. Just as an aside, I do take art classes from her and she does not give me any type of discount.
Click to expand...

Seems she is getting the best deal all around. I would let her have the cut out pieces. If a customer brings in his/her own mat, I let them have the cut out pieces. It's usually first time customers that do that. After that, they will just buy the mats from me.

I would not have her pay just wholesale prices but would probably give her some type of discount on the complete job.

In your case, I would review the whole situation. Maybe in this case, bartering would be better. You charge her your normal, retail price (with or without discount) and barter for art classes from her.

The least she can do is offer you a courtesy discount on the classes you take from her.

Just as an overall; what do you get out of this deal? Doesn't seem a lot to me.
 
You are "sharing space" with this person...do they "share" in the overhead?

I guess my answer would depend on how much the labor charges are. You have something of a mutual back scratching arrangement but it looks from the outside that you are doing most of the scratching. She charges full price for her lessons, does she pass on her costs on materials, or is that not an issue?
I guess that returning the fallouts wouldn't be such a big deal. I sure wouldn't let her use my space to store or manage the fallouts though.
 
Return of Customer Purchased Mat Fall Outs

I really appreciate all of your responses.

I asked because I have never been asked for the fall outs before from her or any other customer. I guess I have been feeling taken advantage of lately, so was not sure how to deal with this particular situation.

As mentioned before, I have cut mats for this person in the past. I usually get the mat for her and charge her wholesale price for the mat + cost of labor. I think I may have to revisit my pricing for her.

I will give her back the fall outs. Again, thanks so much for your help. I knew I could count on the Grumble for the correct way to proceed in this situation.
 
We share all costs of the space - rent, electricity, gas, ect. She has her half of the space on one side and I have half of the space on the other side. Plus a common space that we share 50 / 50 where customers walk in.

For art classes - the students provide their own. I do sell art supplies to the students if they choose to buy them from me. My partner (artist / art teacher) generally does not buy her art supplies from me - not sure where she gets them.

I just revisited a thread about sharing retail space!!!
 
I find that when I am in this pickle you describe it is always another female requesting the favor. It is an odd thing about favors from woman to woman, to ' just do this little thing for me'. The thinking must be 'there is no expense so cant you just give me a bit of your labor as a pal'. We as female business women are left helping to educate fellow girls that this isnt a 'favor' kind of a thing, this is how we earn our living. The mini moments of awkwardness when this concept is first explained is soon over and then a revelation of busiiness is business settles in. You have to save them from continuing to offend you, or relationships suffer and only you are in on the 'why'. It is the same issue as why females generally tip less than men, we do not naturally value monetarily service/professional kindness as readily as the male mind. It has to be gently delt with one female at a time.

I liked the idea you were given to barter actual costs for art class actual costs. That makes good sense and will help her realize how she has been impositioning you as a business woman.
 
Joanie, It sounds as if I didn't understand you originally - you stated that she brings in her own mat board and that you cut it for her charging a labor charge. Now you are saying that you get the mat for her and charge her wholesale? That is totally a different understanding of the original question. First off, I don't sell anything at wholesale to anybody. If another framer in the area needs something on a Saturday or Sunday when our suppliers are closed and the other framer is in a pinch I will give the item to them and tell them to replace it, that way there is nothing out of my pocket, time, money, or gas. If someone, anyone, purchases a sheet of mat board from me, at full price, that is their mat board and they get the fall outs if they request it. If I were to sell it to them at wholesale, I still consider the mat board theirs because I sold it to them, it was my choice to sell wholesale, and therefore the fallouts/scraps are still theirs if they request them. If I were in your position and paying this person for their services, art classes, at full price I definately wouldn't be offering my services and materials at wholesale. IMHO I believe that you will have to decide if you are going to continue this arrangement - I definately wouldn't because business is business and if you are willing to give a discount she should be too, have you ever asked for a discount? If she doesn't give you classes at wholesale how can she expect you to give her discounts on you products?
 
Joe B - In the past my business associate has always gotten the mat board from me and I give it to her for wholesale cost. She then has me cut it and I charge her for the labor of cutting the mat.

This was the first time that she brought in her own mat board and asked me to cut it. Then requested the fall outs.

That was why I asked the original question thinking I should be setting up a general policy so that I can apply it not only to her but any future customers.

I was trying to help her (business associate) out since we work together (a bit over a year now).

When she originally brought this up, she mentioned she could get her own wholesale account with a local moulding vendor that was why I just went with the wholesale price. Now, I am realizing I am the one spending time on ordering ect for her as I have been doing the same thing in regards to moulding also. I am thinking she just needs to get her own account an order her own supplies.
 
I think she's using you. First of all, in the situation where you ordered the matboard for her, same as you would ANY customer, you have been giving her a substantial discount without her reciprocating on her teaching. That's not professional courtesy, that's professional DISCOURTESY.

Second, now she's not even buying the matboard from you, but still expecting you to cut it for her. That's an insult on top of her previous discourtesy.

Start charging her full retail regardless of whether she brings her own matboard, or demand that she give you a 75% discount on her art classes.
 
Bottom line, whether she bought it from you or somewhere else, she owns the mat board not you. you are charging her for your time, not your time plus the waste. This is such a small amount of value, just give it to her. Who knows, she may pay you to cut the drop out and you will make more money!!!

Tom
 
Totally agree with PaulSF - she is being very discourtious. You are the one giving and not receiving anything in return. Start charging full price unless she is willing to give you the same courtesy as you are giving...just my .02 cents
 
Would you bring your own eggs to a diner and ask them to fry them for you at a discount?

If someone brings in their own matboard, I tell them that I will cut the mat for a fee but if I mess it up or the Wizard eats it or something, I won't replace it. Same for glass brought from a glass shop. If it's scratched, I won't replace it, even if you think I scratched it. I will replace any mistakes made with materials purchased FROM me.

And as a side note, when I get a hobby framer in here who has made an exact diagram of their complicated layout with multiple openings, I usually turn it down. Once bitten, twice shy. The hobbyist doesn't speak "frame" and the chances of miscommunication are too high.

"I wanted the oval to be 3/8 from the edge of where my frame would be, not where the edge of the mat." Well that's just gravy, framers work from the inside of the rabbet, not the visible portion of mat. Grrrr.

And I give people back the pieces of their own board. The fallouts from my boards are recycled as readymade mats.
 
Charge her a corking fee.

Restaurants charge $ 15.00 to uncork the wine you bring into the restaurant even if you bring your own glass!

:beer:
 
If you want to keep her as a customer just gradually increase your labor prices.
Her board she owns the drop outs.
To get a feel of how much try to remember to time how long it takes you from the time she walks in the door untill you are done cutting & wrapping the mats. Don't cheat make sure you count all the minutes. Do this a couple times if you can & then slowly adjust your price.

Dave go uncork one I will be right over....
 
Thanks for all the feedback. I really appreciate it as I am new to the business (framing) plus this is my first brick & mortar store. I have another business but work out of my home.

I am taking in all of your sage advice about operating a framing business in this thread, as well as, reading all the other information on the Grumble. The Grumble as been invaluable tool to me.
 
We charge $2.97 a hole. Doesn't matter who's mat it is: mine, yours, someone else's. If it's your mat, you get back all the scrap or I'll be happy to donate it/throw it away.

If a customer brings in a mat that needs to be cut into many pieces first, or that they want to use in a picture we are framing, then we have a button in Lifesaver for "customer mat" which adds a $4.95 charge. I don't use this if I just have to make 2 cuts to trim the mat to size, but if I'm using time to plan out how to get 8 smaller mats out of one big one that they bought somewhere else, they can pay for that time.

And yeah, sounds like she's just using you. Let her handle buying her own stuff and charge her labor for whatever she needs you to do. After all, you are in business to make a profit too.
 
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