Mat cutter vs CMC

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For those of you who have computer mat cutters, do you still have a 48 or 60 inch as well. Is it advisable to go with just a CMC or go with both? Looking for some good advice. Thanks :rolleyes:
 
Just about everyone who has a CMC, "graduated" to it from a regular manual cutter. Based on that, yes, I still have my old 60" manual cutter. I have even used it once or twice in the seven years I've had a CMC. Since I bought my Fletcher 6100, I have never used it. I like keeping it around though, kind of like a security blanket.

John
 
I have had my CMC for only 3 months now, but I still use the F2100 fairly frequently.

I use it for cutting strips for all kinds of things when they need to be a particular width. (I think it's MUCH easier than the wall cutter for < 4" strips) A quick small job is still just as quick to whip out on the manual. A couple of times I've had < 1.5 inches of mat and not enough of a piece to have the CMC cut the outside. Then the manual works fine, but the CMC won't.

Mayben over time, I'll change my mind, but for now I think both are very useful for different things.
 
Like John, We keep the Fletcher as a security blanket. You never know when you'll need it. Our CMC had a "hiccup" a few days before Christmas last year. Without the Fletcher it could have been a disaster but we were able to keep on truckin'.
 
we have had the CMC since June, and we still use the fletcher 2100 for cutting strips, etc. Love the CMC, but would find it difficult to give up my fletcher 2100 :D

elaine
 
Originally posted by Cliff Wilson:
...I still use the F2100 fairly frequently.

I use it for cutting strips for all kinds of things when they need to be a particular width.
Yep...

I use the manual cutte all the time for slicing up strips of foam-board spacers.

Also, as others have mentioned, it's good to have a "back-up" around - "just in case"!
 
If you have talented mat cutters or are one, you'll probably want to have both a cmc and a manual one. We can cut single opening mats faster by hand than we can on the cmc so we do all of them that way. We only use the cmc for multi opening, complicated, oval and oversize mats. We have two 60' Fletchers but we've found the Wizard does a better and quicker job on oversized mats.

If you're not a skilled mat cutter with several years experience, you'd probably cut all your mats on a cmc and never gain the skill needed to use a manual cutter. We found it takes years to train a skilled mat cutter, so why bother if a cmc is available? If we didn't have skilled mat cutters, we'd seriously consider getting another cmc as a back up. The longest it could take to repair a Wizard is maybe 4 days, not long, but that could mean as many as a 200 to 300 frame back up. Always consider the worst case. BTW, if you're considering a cmc, I can't imagine life without one. Warren
 
I can't miss what I've never had. I used an Esterly wall mount mat cutter (which I sold) for close to twenty years before I got the CMC two years ago. I don't even know how to use a table-top cutter anymore. In fact, I have to learn how to use one if I want to take the MCPF exam. It's a bummer for me. I really know my craft, but I would probably flunk the exam because I can't use a manual mat cutter.
 
Pam, I know this may offend a few manual mat cutting prima dona's, but using a manual mat cutter is basically "idiot work".

Like every tool, there is a small learning curve, but mostly all it takes is a few days practice and thinking it through.

Learning to use a hand wood plane properly is a lot more complex and harder to master.

I think your test should be updated to use CMCs over manual cutters.

I can say these things because I was trained to cut mats with a straight edge and a utility knife when I first entered our industry. I have used them all and the only really hard one to master was the straight edge and utility knife.

John
 
There are a very few things that a CMC can't do if you know how to use everything. We have had a CMC for 10+ years and still use a manual cutter maybe 5-10 times a year. Every shop should have both "just in case"
 
What generally happens with most CMC owners is that they will find themselves NOT selling anything the CMC can't cut. However every now and then you just flat can't weasel your way out of some jobs, like another copy of one you did prior to owning a CMC.

Other times is when a regular customer flat wants a job the CMC won't do. Then there is always the interior deco....er...designer, they always want it done the hardest way possible, or impossible, doesn't matter to them.

John
 
I don`t want a computerised cutter simply because I think the fancy mounts look incredibly cheap and tacky.I just don`t think that I have seen a single mount cut like that that I would have let into my house to be honest.

Fortunately we are some way off having to install them in every frame shop over here.There is a place in town that has one but they make really cheap and nasty frames and sell a lot of horrible mirrors so their mounts will fit nicely in that set up.

I suppose at the end of the day it will be customer driven but thankfully none of mine are too bothered.I see these kind of mounts a lot used as samples for sewings and needlework kits and they almost always look so contrived.

And I don,t do volume framing either so the speed part doesn,t count for me.

I,ll stick to being a luddite for the time being I think.

All picture framing equipment is gradually deskilling framers.Probably the biggest deskilling happened with the advent of the underpinner which made anyone an expert joiner.In time I think only genuinely innovative framers or artisan framers will be able to compete with the bigger outfits.That seems to be the way that things are heading in this trade.

[ 11-16-2003, 06:01 AM: Message edited by: Reynard ]
 
It is gratifying to hear Reyhard's input on this. Sure, I'm going to sound behind the curve, but Rey is right; all this contibutes to the deskilling of framing in general. One of the reasons I've always been involved is for the craftsman aspect and the opportunity to utilize talent.... as opposed to being a button-pusher. We all see this happening in society; call it deskilling or dumbing-down, the emphasis is going away from the hands-on craftsman part, and more toward crank-it-out, go for the quick and easy, out-Walmart the local Walmart mentality. The idea of skill developed over time, by appreticeship (to include inspiration, experience, and trial and error) has been replaced by paying someone to slam a 2-week cram course down one's throat, take a standardized test, and *presto*, you're a framer. I find it amusing that with all the hype about CPF exams and their defense, it's necessary for a previously "certified" framer to learn how to use a matcutter. (I don't recall Picasso having to pass a bureaucrat's exam in order to qualify as a skilled artist.)
Fortunately, my clients appreciate the value of a craftsman, not a programmer. They expect superlative quality, they get superlative quality, and they pay for superlative quality.

Diatribes about underpinners will be reserved for a later date.


[ 11-16-2003, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: FramingFool ]
 
I have a new Wizard - junior rental. I do keep my Fletcher 60" 2100 around for backup and occasional odd jobs, i.e. over 60" cutting.

I have to comment on the term artisan as it applies to framing. For most framers the term needs to be reserved for the design table. I accept that there are framers that hand carve mats or perhaps gild frames - they can claim to be artisans. For mat cutting, tools like the Fletcher 2100 have replaced art with the skill required to operate tools. The CMC is another step in this direction that improves speed, accuracy and allows more design features without tedium. Tools that allow more efficiency and accuracy than older methods are good for the framing BUSINESS.

That said, I probably view my CMC differently than most shops. It's there for my convenience - in a one man shop. It's on my books as part of my fixed overhead - another rent. It is not related to mat profitability. If it were I could not justify the expense. Mat profit is not what my business is about. For example, yesterday I sold about $100 worth of mats and $2500 worth of frames and fillets. The margin on these moldings and closed corner frames is what makes my business tick.

Pat :D
 
I'll agree, many of the designs available in the library are "tacky". But I recently did a four opening, Kobe corner, double mat. The order came to over $400.00 and the customer loved it so much, she is having a second one done. I never would have been able to do this with any kind of success, and so quickly, by hand. And twice, to boot.

I just finished a quadruple arch mat with the bottom corners rounded using the "merge" feature on the Wizard. The mats are so closely sized, the bevels look like they are continuous. The top mat was designed using a combination of mats found in the library and merging them. The mat design, I think, is anything but "tacky". I NEVER could have done this mat in a million years without the CMC.

Say what you want, there are many things I can offer my customers that I could not if it weren't for this fabulous piece of machinery. It has also freed up alot of my time, which I am putting to good use.

If you don't want to be progressive, you may get left behind. People like me will be offering our customers (and maybe yours) things they want or never knew they could get, because you think the "old way" or "your way" is, for some reason, better.
 
How would you like to go to a dentist who uses a foot powered drill? A CPA who doesn't use a computer? A carpenter who doesn't even own a skill saw? Sure, these guys can all excel at their craft, but would the average person want to use them? could they afford them?

Working in the past will secure you a small niche market, but that will be it.

If you do not want to keep up with innovations in your industry, you will probably get left behind.

I spent years cutting mats with a utility knife, and I became very proficient in it. I think you would have been hard pressed to tell if it had been done on a manual mat cutter or not.

I now use a CMC and there is no way in h ell I would consider using a utility knife to cut mats, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

John
 
There's a show on PBS with Norm Abrams called, I think, Yankee Workshop. Norm shows us how to make all sorts of furniture using no power tools what-so-ever.

I admire Norm in the same way I might admire someone who could kill a bear with a pocket knife, but I can't imagine why I would ever try either of those things just to say I did it.

I use my Fletcher 2100 every single day, but only because I have a Mat Maestro that requires a few extra steps to cut anything at all. Many mats are actually simpler on the Fletcher.

The vast majority of mats I DO cut on the CMC are not the fancy corners from the templates. They are the collage mats with 38 windows and 2-3 layers, or the bizarre shapes I might need to frame a newspaper article with irregular columns, or maybe an arch that needs to align perfectly with an image.

Any of these things could be cut with the Fletcher, but I have to be insane to do that if I have a choice.

Which I do.


By the way, I became proficient at cutting most types of mats I need after a month-or-so in business. I'm still learning to do design. That's where our artisanship either shines or fails miserably.

[ 11-16-2003, 02:47 PM: Message edited by: Ron Eggers ]
 
I'm of two minds on this issue. I agree that CMC's, underpinners and the like have made it much easier for some one to put out a decent product with minimal experience. Chops certainly had that effect as well.

I gained my framing skills by cutting a lot of frames and a lot of mats over a lot of years. I used to rest easy that it would be hard for a newbie to compete with me because of my accumulated experience.

When I first began looking at a CMC I soon realized that it would make it easier for unskilled worker to put out a pretty good mat and that a chunk of my competition would be getting one.

The romance of "craft" wore thin for me a number of years ago. I am proud of my skills and appreciate good workmanship but I also am a realist who is paying a mortgage, funding college for two kids and dreaming of a comfortable retirement. I did a job last friday which involved 15 8ply mats for a photographer. I cut the mats in less than 1/2 hour and they were technically perfect.

I could have cut them on a manual cutter and have in the past. They would have taken longer, would have strained my mildly arthritic hands and, honestly, would not have been as good. I made more money with my CMC.

I have had an Eclipse for 3 years. We only use the old cutters for odd jobs like trimming and bevel strips. We rarely use odd corners in our designs but cut a bunch of classic mats faster, better and more profitably than we did with a manul cutter. I anticipate that, very shortly, it will be difficult for anyone except low volume hobbyists or high end Scottish art dealers to compete without a CMC.

I do think that having experience with the manual processes make us better designers and allows us to use the machine to its best effect. Restraint is sometimes the hallmark of experience. I think that a CMC in the hands of someone with limited framing and design experience is almost guaranteed to produce some horrendous mats. Graphic designers certainly saw some truly awful stuff with the advent of desktop publishing.

Peter Bowe
Saline Picture Frame Co.
 
Peter, I think you just said it all a lot more eloquently than my clumsy attempts at it. Good explanation.

John
 
Yup, Peter summed it up. I still keep my 2100 around and use it for a few things, but the 6100 is our workhorse. Got it instead of hiring and training another employee. Initially choked at the cost, but that CMC is still performing every day and hasn't asked for a raise or called in sick. It also lets me do a layout/design away from the shop on my laptop. Email it to the shop or drop the disk off and the mat can be cut by anyone smart enough to make sure there is a sharp blade in the cutter head.

Craft is important, but paying the bills is critical. If someone insists that their mat be cut manually we wil do it and add iin some of that artistic fee.
 
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